More Questions from a Would-Be Catholic

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Ok so normally I live in a country different to my own and the only Catholic parish I’ve seen was the one there and now that I’ve come home for Christmas the experiences I’ve had with the Catholic Church here+life here has made me question things. I still would like to become Catholic, I just have some questions.
  1. The Eastern Orthodox
I was baptized into the Eastern-Orthodox Church. I know the Peter stuff but I’ve heard from some Orthodox sources that they don’t deny the primacy of Peter. Anyhow the Eastern Orthodox leave me confused. Do they have a different concept of original sin? Generally, where do the Orthodox and Catholic differ and why are we right? If an Orthodox came up to me how would I hypothetically convince him that Catholicism is right and how would he attempt to convince me of the opposite (and what would I respond)? I’m not asking because I want to go around proselytizing, I’m asking because these inner debates help me convince myself and better understand a concept.
  1. Some doctrines
I’ve just recently read something about divine impassibility. That makes me wonder, concretely why did Christ suffer for us on the Cross? I know it has something to do with gaining forgiveness for our sins but what is the more developed answer to that? Are there other reasons? Did the divine Son suffer with Christ ? And generally what are some doctrines that are likely to confuse people/ I would need to know about? I sort of read the Catechism ( I admit it is a hard read at points) so I’m asking about things beyond the “basic” points.
  1. Saints, Mary and Tradition
I mostly understand why we honor saints and Mary. Can we honor them too much? Fenerally, I think the whole does Tradition (with capital T) exist or not a thing is really a weird matter. It makes sense to me that Scripture cannot be the only component of the Word of God but I don’t know why. Basically, if a Protestant came up to me how would I explain those 3 points above to him (because with myself I can just say it sort of makes sense)?
  1. A request for some advice
How do you go about being Catholic for the sake of God and for the sake of being Catholic? Say the place you find yourself in bores you a bit, some people in your parish scare you, embarrass you a bit, you are a bit self-conscious, etc. I mean the parish priest in the foreign country we live in is actually an amazing guy but I don’t want to go to Mass or become Catholic because the people of the parish are nice or I like the way the church looks. How do I go about doing that in an uncomfortable place? Generally, I honestly feel a bit stupid. I wonder what went into my head and why I took interest in God all of a sudden. I have previously attributed it to grace but part of me is wondering if I’m simply being immature.
  1. Love
How can somebody learn to love God? I know we should keep his Commands but I think there might be more to it.
  1. History
You know the whole “By their fruits, you shall know them” thing?Was the Catholic Church a force for mostly good or mostly evil (and how does it compare to the Orthodox)? Does it matter? Why or why not?

Thank you and sorry for yet again another set of questions.
 
Ioana said:
The Eastern Orthodox

I was baptized into the Eastern-Orthodox Church. I know the Peter stuff but I’ve heard from some Orthodox sources that they don’t deny the primacy of Peter. Anyhow the Eastern Orthodox leave me confused. Do they have a different concept of original sin? Generally, where do the Orthodox and Catholic differ and why are we right? …
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Good thing is there are LOTS in common between Catholicism and Orthodoxy, especially the celebration of the Christian faith – the seven sacraments centered on the Eucharist.

Fundamentally, the key difference is the Pope. The Catholic Church considers union with the Church of Rome as key to being in full communion with Christ’s Church. Why? Because the Petrine office is a real office Christ wanted his church to have, for the sake of unity. It’s good that some Orthodox recognize Petrine primacy. The next step is to show WHY there is this primacy. If we go to the fathers, we see that one essential reason is, indeed, for the sake of the church’s unity. Cyprian of Carthage in the AD 250s said exactly this. The church was built on Peter so that there may be one church. And that this “chair” of Peter, Cyprian said, is continued in the church of Rome.

Orthodox and Catholics may bicker on the extent of papal authority. But that’s not the real key. If both sides can agree that Peter has a primacy, then we must ask: What’s the point of this divinely-appointed primacy? If Christ meant for Peter to have primacy, then doesn’t make sense that the side that continues this office (The Catholic side) has the proper understanding of it?

The Pope is crucial. Without the Church of Rome, there is no ultimate point of authority to look to when there are severe disagreements in the Church. Only the Catholic Church can continue the practice of the early fathers, who looked to Rome in order to be in line with true Christian teaching.
“But since it would be too long to enumerate in such a volume as this the succession of all the churches, we shall confound all those who, in whatever manner, whether through self-satisfaction or vainglory, or through blindness and wicked opinion, assemble other than where it is proper, by pointing out here the successions of the bishops of the greatest and most ancient church known to all, founded and organized at Rome by the two most glorious apostles, Peter and Paul, that church which has the tradition and the faith which comes down to us after having been announced to men by the apostles. With that church, because of its superior origin, all the churches must agree, that is, all the faithful in the whole world, and it is in her that the faithful everywhere have maintained the apostolic tradition” _-Irenaeus of Lyons, Against Heresies 3:3:2
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I’ll answer question 6 while leaving the others to more knowledgeable folks. Basically, the Catholic Church built Western Civilization. When Rome began to fall during the 4th and 5th centuries, it was the Catholic Church that stepped into the breach. Rome controlled the majority of the known world at that time and when it fell, it left an awful hole. Thus, the Dark Ages began. The only thing that was able to unite the known world in the end (which was becoming more and more Christian) was the Church. With the Church at the center of the world at the time, the Middle Ages began. Most good historians nowadays have begun to shy away from calling the Middle Ages the Dark Ages. Because it wasn’t dark. Cathedrals were built, science was researched, universities sprang up. In fact, it was the Catholic monks that saved the knowledge of the Roman Empire when the barbarians destroyed it.

Of course, the Orthodox have done wonderful things as well, but it can’t be compared to how the Catholic Church saved Western Civilization. Now, that isn’t actually the Orthodox’s fault. The Eastern Roman Empire survived when the Western Roman Empire fell. But the Eastern Empire was quickly set upon by the Red Whirlwind: Islam. So the Orthodox had to fight for their life for most of the time that the Western world was in the Middle Ages. And when you are fighting for your life, you can’t usually do much besides that.

Nevertheless, looking at the fruits of both versions of Christianity is good, but that is not the main thing you should look at. What both teach and how they differ in that is more important.
 
Ioana said:
Saints, Mary and Tradition

I mostly understand why we honor saints and Mary. Can we honor them too much? Fenerally, I think the whole does Tradition (with capital T) exist or not a thing is really a weird matter. It makes sense to me that Scripture cannot be the only component of the Word of God but I don’t know why. Basically, if a Protestant came up to me how would I explain those 3 points above to him (because with myself I can just say it sort of makes sense)?

A request for some advice

How do you go about being Catholic for the sake of God and for the sake of being Catholic? Say the place you find yourself in bores you a bit, some people in your parish scare you, embarrass you a bit, you are a bit self-conscious, etc…
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Sure, in theory, someone could go too far and actually give the Saints the worship which is due to God alone. It can happen with material possessions as well. But short of doing that, I don’t think you can honor them “too much”…at least not Mary. No one can give her more honor than God did, in choosing her for His Mother.
You can think of the Saints as role models to whom we go for help in growing closer to Christ. I’ve found that to be a good way of clearing confusion with non-Catholics. Here is a link, but please don’t look to these as THE way to explain things about the Saints. These just happen to be discussions/arguments that I’ve had o nthis particular topic, and written out.


If you want to discuss Traditions, you may want to start at the topic of Authority and where that lies. It always boils back down to Authority, in my experience.

To be Catholic for the sake of God, I have found it best to focus on the Eucharist. Next to that, I remember Christ’s founding of ONE Church, and His desire that it be kept that way…

Hope that helps.
 
  1. Love
    That’s all about relationship. Relationship with God (Jesus). Relationship with others.
With others: think Mother Teresa. You may not be called to serve exactly as she did but the idea is similar. I’m trying to be mindful of how I treat members of my family; am I loving them in a way that helps lead them to God? Sharing time, treasure, talent.

With Jesus: I think the Saints known for contemplative prayer are prime examples. My interpretation is being attentive at mass, adoration, daily prayers, etc.
 
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Ioana said:
How do you go about being Catholic for the sake of God and for the sake of being Catholic?
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Since you have received all the sacraments of intitiation in the Orthodox Church, you make a simple profession of faith, and that is it.
 
Ioana said:
Say the place you find yourself in bores you a bit, some people in your parish scare you, embarrass you a bit, you are a bit self-conscious, etc.
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Treat them like family, none of us chooses the family we are born into, our church family is the same. This is the opportunity God provides for loving our neighbor. Find a ministry in your parish that matches your talents, or that stretches you a little. Pray for your pastor especially and for each soul in his charge.
 
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Ioana said:
Ok so normally I live in a country different to my own and the only Catholic parish I’ve seen was the one there and now that I’ve come home for Christmas the experiences I’ve had with the Catholic Church here+life here has made me question things. I still would like to become Catholic, I just have some questions.

The Eastern Orthodox

I was baptized into the Eastern-Orthodox Church. I know the Peter stuff but I’ve heard from some Orthodox sources that they don’t deny the primacy of Peter. Anyhow the Eastern Orthodox leave me confused. Do they have a different concept of original sin? Generally, where do the Orthodox and Catholic differ and why are we right? If an Orthodox came up to me how would I hypothetically convince him that Catholicism is right and how would he attempt to convince me of the opposite (and what would I respond)? I’m not asking because I want to go around proselytizing, I’m asking because these inner debates help me convince myself and better understand a concept.
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While this is historically CORRECT; from the time Of Christ Resurrection until 1054 AD, the date of the GREAT Eastern Schism, there were 151 historically provable in direct succession; CATHOLIC Popes, RECOGNIZED by ALL of the worlds Christian churches.

FRIEND: YOU’RE MANY QUESTIONS WILL REQUIRE MULTIPLE POST REPLIES

[1] Catholic Popes - A Comprehensive List of All the Popes

[2] 50 Biblical Indications of Petrine Primacy and the Papacy
Dave Armstrong

Peter, the Primacy and the Bible 50 proofs « working4christ2
The Great Easter Schism

[3] While it is accurate to claim that the Eastern Churches recognized the Primacy of Rome Officially until the Eastern Churches choose to formally separate from the RCC in 1054, there was tension and disagreements in the 1st thousand years of the RCC.

East–West Schism - Wikipedia One can debate who choose to separate from WHO; but there is no debate that it was mutually agreed to be necessary.

FEED MY SHEEP
Jn. 21:15-17 “[15] When they had finished breakfast, Jesus said to SIMON PETER “Simon, son of John, do you love me more than these?” He said to him, “Yes, Lord; you know that I love you.” He said TO HIM, “Feed my lambs.”

[16] A second time he SAID TO HIM, “Simon, son of John, do you love me?” He said to him, “Yes, Lord; you know that I love you.” He SAID TO HIM, “Tend my sheep.” [17] He said TO HIM the third time, “SIMON son of John, do you love me?” Peter was grieved because HE SAID TO HIM the third time, “Do you love me?” And he said to him, “Lord, you know everything; you know that I love you.” Jesus SAID TO HIM, "FEED MY SHEEP” ;ALL direct; precise & exclusive; JUST LIKE Mt 16:15-19 and the KEY’

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The Early Church Fathers on
The Primacy of Peter/Rome :SEE THE SITE FOR MORE
http://www.staycatholic.com/ecf_primacy_of_rome.htm
Ignatius of Antioch
You [the See of Rome] have envied no one, but others have you taught. I desire only that what you have enjoined in your instructions may remain in force (Epistle to the Romans 3:1 [A.D. 110]).
Irenaeus
…. “ by pointing out here the successions of the bishops of the greatest and most ancient church known to all, founded and organized at Rome by the two most glorious apostles, Peter and Paul, that church which has the tradition and the faith which comes down to us after having been announced to men by the apostles.
With this church, because of its superior origin, all churches must agree—that is, all the faithful in the whole world—and it is in her that the faithful everywhere have maintained the apostolic tradition” Against Heresies 3:3:2 [inter A.D. 180-190
Cyprian
With a false bishop appointed for themselves by heretics, they dare even to set sail and carry letters from schismatics and blasphemers to the Chair of Peter and to the principal church [at Rome], in which sacerdotal unity has its source" (Epistle to Cornelius [Bishop of Rome] 59:14 [A.D. 252]).
Augustine
Among these [apostles] Peter alone almost everywhere deserved to represent the whole Church. Because of that representation of the Church, which only he bore, he deserved to hear “I will give to you the keys of the kingdom of heaven” (Sermons 295:2 [A.D. 411]).

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Ioana said:
Saints, Mary and Tradition

I mostly understand why we honor saints and Mary. Can we honor them too much? Fenerally, I think the whole does Tradition (with capital T) exist or not a thing is really a weird matter. It makes sense to me that Scripture cannot be the only component of the Word of God but I don’t know why. Basically, if a Protestant came up to me how would I explain those 3 points above to him (because with myself I can just say it sort of makes sense)?
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Anyhow the Eastern Orthodox leave me confused. Do they have a different concept of original sin?
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https://oca.org/questions/teaching/st.-augustine-original-sin
ORIGINAL SIN. Either the sin committed by Adam as the head of the human race, or the sin he passed onto his posterity with which every human being, with the certain exception of Christ and his Mother, is conceived and born. The sin of Adam is called originating original sin (originale originans); that of his descendents is originated original sin (originale originatum). Adam’s sin was personal and grave, and it affected human nature. It was personal because he freely committed it; it was grave because God imposed a serious obligation; and it affected the whole human race by depriving his progeny of the supernatural life and preternatural gifts they would have possessed on entering the world had Adam not sinned. Original sin in his descendants is personal only in the sense that the children of Adam are each personally affected, but not personal as though they had voluntarily chosen to commit the sin; it is grave in the sense that it debars a person from the beatific vision, but not grave in condemning one to hell; and it is natural only in that all human nature, except for divine intervention, has it and can have it removed only by supernatural means. Father Hardon’s Catholic Distionary
I attempted to research the difference between West & East and found 3 contradictory Orthodox positions. What I can share in that BOTH agree the Original sin exist and is passed on the entire human race except for Jesus and Mary.
Generally, where do the Orthodox and Catholic differ and why are we right?
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PLEASE read this site:

** http://www.differencebetween.com/difference-between-orthodox-and-vs-catholic/**

We [Catholics] are right because TRUTH can only be singular per defined issue.

Christ Truths were and are entrusted to the Only Church and Faith desired by Jesus; and protected by Jesus. Mt 28:18-20; John 17:17-20; BOTH of which like Mt 16:15-19 ARE [1] direct [2] precise [3] specific [4] exclusive.

SEE NEXT POST
 
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If an Orthodox came up to me how would I hypothetically convince him that Catholicism is right and how would he attempt to convince me of the opposite (and what would I respond)? I’m not asking because I want to go around proselytizing, I’m asking because these inner debates help me convince myself and better understand a concept.
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  1. See ABOVE and as you read these passages understand that they are literal; direct; precise and exclusive.
It is very doubtful that you, me or anyone else including GOD, is going to convince them. Like the Protestants who too think they are “right” even though they are incorrect; hold with obstinacy; their views and positions. The problem is separating there partial-truths from the ENTIRE specific issue-truth
  1. I have a deep and Great love of the Orthodox; and hesitate to enter into this type of discussion as they seem un able to so Objectively; without emotions taking over
  2. It is NOTABLE for example that the Apostles who they acknowledge as the “Founders” of their churches are in each Case Roman Catholics; and Direct Apostolic Succession is the essential mandate to have the 7 Sacraments Validly, as they do have.
  3. It is NOTABLE that they were PART of the RCC until the Great Easter Schism.
  4. One can point out that the Bible is a Catholic Birthed Book. It was Catholics; guided by the HS, who choose the 46 OT books; and it was Catholics who authored the entire NT. The Bible is thought to have been completely written by the End of the 1st Century; which predates the frequent theological difference which were to later show themselves.
  5. The Bible then was birthed By CATHOLICS and as written; exclusively for Catholics who could not have foreseen the Great Eastern Schism of the 11th Century; or the Protestant revolution termed the Reformation of the 16th Century.
  6. THE ROOT ISSUE IS Truth which can be ONLY singular per defined issue.
    What is “TRUTH?”
    noun
the quality or state of being true.

“he had to accept the truth of her accusation”
synonyms: veracity, truthfulness, verity, sincerity, candor, honesty;

That which is true or in accordance with fact or reality END QUOTE

What is the Moral significance and demands of TRUTH?
Father John A. Hardon S.J., one of the 20th Centuries most esteemed Theologians, explains it clearly and precisely:

Truth is [1] the condition for grace [2] it is the source of grace [3] it is the channel of grace [4] it is the Divinely Ordained requirement of grace.” End Quotes

BENEDICT XVI
Benedict says: “Their cannot be your truth and my truth or there would be no truth”
AMEN End of replies
 
Ioana said:
  1. Generally, where do the Orthodox and Catholic differ and why are we right?
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On nothing important! As easy as that! We are so close on the fundamentals, that matter of divergence is practically of no importance. Focus on the important things!
Ioana said:
  1. That makes me wonder, concretely why did Christ suffer for us on the Cross?
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Jesus was born man in all things similar to us, except in sin. And out of love, for us, expired all of our own sins on the Cross. Through His infinite merits in doing so, we gain salvation and the pardon of our sins.

(the full justification is much more complicated, but the main idea is this.)
Ioana said:
4.How do I go about doing that in an uncomfortable place?
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Ioana:
I honestly feel a bit stupid.
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Then stop that feeling. You belong there, folks are obligated to be welcoming in a church.
Ioana said:
  1. How can somebody learn to love God?
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He loved us first. Let Him love you, with time you will learn to love Him.
 
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Ioana said:
  1. Love
How can somebody learn to love God? I know we should keep his Commands but I think there might be more to it.
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This is a pretty detailed subject, so I can’t cover everything, but I think this is the basics. Some of this is specific to Catholics. Perhaps that will be an incentive to join our faith. 😃

It’s easiest to understand by looking at human relationships. Human relationships are formed when one person chooses to love another in some small way. The other person then responds to or reciprocates that love. This is a cycle of one person expressing love to another, then the other person expressing love back. As long as this continues, their love for each other will increase. It’s the same with God. God loves us in many ways. Once you are able to see the ways he loves you, it hopefully fills your heart with some appreciation or joy. Then you want to respond to God by loving him back. So there’s two pieces to the puzzle, God loves you, you love God back.

God Loves You

God loves us from the moment we are created. He is watching all the time, giving us countless blessings along the way. You never have to wait for God to love you. He already is. So the key is recognizing God’s love for you. Because God is the source of all good, every good thing that happens to you is a blessing from God. Maybe it’s good weather, a promotion at work, a friend giving you a call, a spouse giving you a hug. Even more are the times you ask for prayers and God answers them how you wanted. In those moments, God actually listened to what you said, and gave you the blessing you asked for. God loves all people, sure, but he loves you at the individual level as well. Once you see this, you can’t help but feel touched by God. When your heart is touched, there is no question you will want to give back.

You Love God

Now the question is how to give back to God. One the biggest ways, maybe the primary way, is through prayer. Every prayer is an offering to God. You are taking time out of your day, a sacrifice, and choosing to spend it with God. You can find prayers and recite them, but the best prayer comes from the heart. Just talk about whatever is on your mind with God. He’s your best friend. You can reveal your deepest secrets, talk about your most embarrassing things, he’s still going to love you. Dedicate an hour in the morning and the evening (2 hours daily) for prayer with God.

(continued below)
 
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(continued from above)

In addition to dedicated prayer, you can follow St. Paul’s call to “pray without ceasing”. This will give you a connection to God throughout the day, not just in the times you set aside for prayer. The more God is on your mind, the closer you will feel to God, the easier you will find it to love him. Here are some ways to do this:
  • As you wrote above (😃) following God’s commandments (also following Church teachings for Catholics). Every time you are tempted to do evil but choose good. “Lord, I want to do evil, but I choose to love you instead and do good.”
  • Whenever you start any activity, offer it up for a petition. God loves us even in the ordinary parts of the day, so much so that he’s happy spread his grace if only we would ask.
  • Whenever you suffer, offer it up to God. We can participate in the salvation of the world. This is called redemptive suffering.
  • Whenever you see a person, wherever and whoever it is, pray for them. Even if you don’t know anything about a person, there’s a surprising amount of things you can pray for that can help them.
  • Fasting. Traditionally, this is giving up food, but you can give up other things like the smartphone. Every time you feel the urge to eat (or look at the phone), you say a prayer to God.
  • Whenever something good happens to you, thank God for it.
Lastly for prayer is participating in the Sacraments, but this is only for Catholics. You can attend mass as a non-Catholic and participate in a lot of the prayers, but you can’t receive the Eucharist. In addition to Eucharist, Catholics can also participate in the Sacrament of Confession. These two repeatable sacraments are probably the most powerful ways to grow in love for God, but we can usually only access them once a day. The rest of the time, we have to pray on our own.

After prayer, the big way to give back to God is by serving others around you. For Catholics at the parish, there are many different ministries to help with. At mass, greeting, ushering, reading, and giving out communion. Outside of mass, hospitality, landscaping, cleaning the church, faith formation, prayer group, and much more. In the community, there are probably many different charities to serve with. In pretty much every community you can help with sheltering the homeless, feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, visiting the sick, visiting the imprisoned (corporal works of mercy). You might also feel called to serve in your own unique way as an individual or by creating your own charity. You can also serve friends and family. Be nice to them, treat them well, make meals for them, be a good listener, and countless more things.
 
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