More Scandal - The Worst Is Yet To Come

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rfk:
I’ve heard a lot of talk about “clearing out the rot”, “getting rid of the deadwood”, “purging the problem”, here and elsewhere.

The thing I worry about is what if clearing out the homosexual behavior problem means losing half our bishop and priests? Where will we get the sacraments?
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God will provide! Didn’t Jesus say …“think not about tomorrow…sufficient for the day is the evil thereof…”

I’m from Massachusetts too…and you know how hard it has been for us…🙂
 
Agreed Thomas. I would dare say that over half of our current clergy are faithful, godly men. Some might hold opinions or act in ways that require a good confession, but don’t we all? At worst, the percentage of clergy with homosexual leanings is no more than the population (2 to 10 % depending on who you believe). Of those who have that tendancy, how many actually act on it?

But, our “friends” in the press will do all they can to make the worst of it.

An interesting dilema will come about on the homosexual issue, however, because the press cannot claim that it’s wrong - right?
 
Jim

I fully agree. The lastest reports reflect approximately 4-6% of all Priests were involved in the abuse scandals…my personal feeling is that percentage is also likely very close to the same percentage of Priests and Bishops that we will lose overall.
 
The most significant problem we have, imo, is the obvious fact that so many people have strayed so far from the faith. Those same people will create much resistance to returning to genuine orthodoxy. People like their comfortable, no consequences, faith they hold and they will not take it easily to be taught that we do in fact inflict consequences on our souls every single time we commit grave sin.

However, the seminaries are now training a entire new class of Priests and that will help shape the future.
 
Can we not make this a homosexual issue? This is about molestation and church leaders covering it up. There are many good gay celibate priests and there are many good celibate heterosexual priests. There are also, sadly, a few poor priests that happen to be homosexual as well as heterosexual. As long as the man has calling on his life and he adheres to the church disciplines…sexuality should not be made an issue. So please stop turning this into a scapegoat for another issue. I think we should all pray for our minsiters and Bishops. They need our support and love. We are all to take up this cross my friends and carry this burden with dignity. God is with us…we will get through this.
 
Sorry, but the numbers speak volumes. This is not a condemnation of all people who have homosexual tendencies. It is a preventive measure. 80% of the abuse problems were of a homosexual nature. It doesn’t mean all men of homosexual tendencies will “prey” upon others. But if 80% of the problem came from a minority of the men, then it needs to be looked at, as uncomfortable as it may be.

In fact, it is a loving thing to be honest about it. I doubt most of these Priests started with any intention of abuse, and most didn’t want to do it. But they were placed in a situation where they failed to overcome their weaknesses. It is for the good of all involved.

I am bothered by attitudes like “the Church hasn’t done anything good lately.” Come on! Yes, there are problems, issues, and failures. But there is a lot of good as well. Yes there are poor bishops, but there are also great Bishops. But we have the teachings of Christ, and we have the Mass. If everything else is a miserable failure, these overcome those to those who know where to place their faith.

Now, I will admit that I get frustrated, but it is a frustration in perspective. I just wish all the Bishops would come out of their conference and say “We’ve had it with trying not to offend anyone! Listen, we can’t stand for gay marriage, you can’t use contraception, and you can’t promote abortion, whether as a politician or a voter. If you wish to leave the Church, do so now so we can start fresh.” I know, I know. That’s not pastoral.

Bah. All I’ve seen my whole life is people being pastoral! I want some fire and brimstone!:mad: (I think maybe I’m realizing why I wasn’t called to the Priesthood…)
 
It may not be too comforting, but the Church’s standing in society is probably not that bad, historically speaking. Just think: in parts of Mediaeval Europe, heresies like that of the Cathars spread like wild fire. Certainly, people were observant Catholics for the most part, but that was because there were no alternatives. It was only in response to these heresies that the preaching orders were started; before that, the bishops preached and the laity were often ignorant of all but the most basic tenants of the Faith. And as for a corrupt clergy…many of these problems were caused by an anti-clericalism that had very understandable roots. Has anyone seen the old Cathedral (now a parish church) in Albi? It was built in the mid 13th century, and is a veritable fortress. Narrow, high windows, massive walls: it was, among other things, a place of refuge for the clergy if things turned nasty.

I am not suggesting that we should be complacent in the face of wickedness; on the contrary. We should not, however, despair. Perhaps we should be praying for another Francis but, in the mean time, we need to hold our end up, where we are.
 
In one of the apparitions of the Blessed Mother, I believe she stated the holy father and the church would suffer much. Maybe this is what she had in mind. Pray for the holy father and the church.
 
In all of the posts I’ve read I really haven’t seen anything about what should and could be done to lift the people involved in these cases of sex abuse. The church will survice this, it will have dings and dents but it will come through. Jesus told us so, and I have faith in what He’s told us. But what about the victims and famlies? How much help has been given to them? Should there be other priorities besides trying to guess what will be published since that can’t be changed anyway.
maggiec
 
gomer tree:
However, this is only necessary because of the fact that these men are/were in the Church. Jesus certainly never willed that any Priest abuse his position, and others.
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Of course, I never meant to imply that Jesus wills evil within His Church. I meant that the public cleansing is a gift to rescue us from the evil. I will try to be more clear in the future.
Paul
 
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JimO:
At worst, the percentage of clergy with homosexual leanings is no more than the population (2 to 10 % depending on who you believe). Of those who have that tendancy, how many actually act on it?
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thomasj317:
I fully agree. The lastest reports reflect approximately 4-6% of all Priests were involved in the abuse scandals…my personal feeling is that percentage is also likely very close to the same percentage of Priests and Bishops that we will lose overall.
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If all we were talking about was sexual abuse of minors by priests, then I would agree with you gentlemen. However, I phrased it more broadly than that:
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rfk:
what if clearing out the homosexual behavior problem
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If either of you have read How Liberals Brought Corruption Into the Catholic ChurchGOODBYE, GOOD MEN, Michael Rose presents a compelling case that there was a pervasive homosexual sub-culture with many priests, as well as most seminaries, at least in the 80’s and early 90’s. From what I can tell, many seminiaries have been cleaned up and become more orthodox in the last 5-10 years. But I also know when I lived in a certain east coast diocese there was one seminary that was pretty widely known as the “pink palace” – and known as that to both clergy & laity alike. Based on that, as well as other articles and conversations over the years, I personally believe that the priesthood has a percentage of homosexual men that is much higher than the general population, at least within certain age cohorts in certain dioceses. The book also clearly points out that there is a huge difference from diocese to diocese.

Now let’s remember charity and not lose sight of the difference between a homosexual person, versus a person with an active homosexual lifestyle. But I’ve also seen websites for gay priests to hook up. The problem is real and it is far more than just minors.
 
My Friends–please read this excellent article by Anthony Esolen on the real and wholly forgotten victims of this grave moral tragedy. It is the single best essay I have ead on the scandal:

(Esolen’s new Dante translation is first rate, btw)

crisismagazine.com/march2004/feature1.htm

Chris C.
 
Chris C.:
My Friends–please read this excellent article by Anthony Esolen on the real and wholly forgotten victims of this grave moral tragedy. It is the single best essay I have ead on the scandal:

(Esolen’s new Dante translation is first rate, btw)

crisismagazine.com/march2004/feature1.htm

Chris C.
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Read that when it came out, and made all my adult relatives read it as well. Powerful stuff.
 
As the old saying goes, “You ain’t seen nothin’ yet!” I don’t think we’re near finished cleaning up in the Church. My wife has a good friend that quit working for the Archdiocese of Los Angeles because of the tremendous sex scandals and the refusal of Cardinal Mahoney to deal with it in any way. She said it is rampant in that diocese and just wait until the dam bursts over there! It’ll make Boston look like they had NO problem in comparison!

Now, in general, we shouldn’t have our faith shaken by scandals. The Church began with scandals and has had them all along. Remember, Judas Iscariot was an Apostle. Peter, the one Jesus chose to lead His Church, denied Him three times. The rest of the Apostles, except for St. John, ran off like cowards. How’s that for a scandal? Yet, the Church is still the Mystical Body of Christ. Was then, and will be forever.

Bottom line is, we keep praying and offering up sacrifices. God will take care of His Church. He always has and always is. He goes through house cleaning every so often. Just look at history.

God bless! Hang in there!
 
NPR exists to attack institutions like the Catholic Church. Lobby your congreesman to pull all public funding for this voice of hate.

As for the scandal, what do expect? There are some bishops out there who, apparently, haven’t learned their lessons from the last round of scandal. They remain silent while people like John Kerry play games with Church dogma, instead of stridently defending the Church they have taken vows to guide.

Nothing can shake my faith in the Christ’s Church. Certainly not the despicable actions (or inactions) of some obviously flawed men.

Would I punt away the medical profession because there are quacks out there? Would I lose faith in the ability of the police to protect me and mine because there are a few crooked cops on the take? Would I abandon my faith in the Constitution because a few rogue judges took it upon themselves to legislate from the bench?

Nope. And, i certainly wouldn’t allow the actions of a few misguided priests shake a faith in our Church. The gates of hell will not prevail against it.

And, that’s exactly what I will tell anyone who tries to use this or any other scandal against the Church.
 
Some years ago I talked with the priest (now dead & I can’t remember his name) who was in charge of a national evangelization program. I asked how we are to evangelize our priests because even then I had run into quite a few less-than-holy priests. He said that evangelizing priests was not the duty of the laity.

I thought he was wrong then & I still think he was wrong. For too many years the priests were left alone & lonely men do strange things. My dh is a laicized priest & that was his main complaint. He says there was no community among priests. They didn’t pray together & there was no encouragement to live a holy life. Unless God has called a man to be a hermit, that’s an unhealthy lifestyle.
 
You can listen to the NPR story at npr.org/rundowns/rundown.php?prgDate=18-Jun-2004&prgId=3 (it’s about halfway down the page).

To me, it basically shows that the Church has had problems in other countries similar to those which the Church has experienced in the US. Should that be such a big surprise? I’m sure the media will use this as another chance to bash the Church. So what? The Church has survived worse. I agree that some pruning is a good thing and it won’t shake my faith one bit.

To paraphrase a member from another thread, Jesus said that the gates of hell will not prevail against the Church. That’s good enough for me.
 
Supposedly several hundred priests worldwide have been moved around to help them avoid prosecution. Given the number of priests worldwide, that’s a very, very small percentage, though even one such case should be unacceptable.
 
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