More than one denomination?

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Hellisreal said:
The other option, of course is that Paul was a relativist. And condoned many religions in the name of Christ.

Why not drag Paul into the scrutiny? Muslims say Paul was a liar. Just ask InJesus. Why not speculate he endorsed multiplue religions?

No chance. I will not speculate upon a single verse in the bible that Paul was against the discourse in John I cited.

Try again. Twist the scripture all you want to to justify your yearnings.

Its hardly convinced anyone here yet. From what I can see, unless you can also talk them into your unique ideas about Christ on another thread.

Sorry Mrs Abbott, but your understanding of scripture seems to be what you want it to be, and not what it actually is.
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It’s ok. Sometimes it’s tough to see the “other side of the fence”. 😉 I don’t hold it against you or anyone else, for that matter. 🙂
 
Contarini said:
No one says it is “one particular denomination.” The Catholic Church does not claim to be one particular denomination.

How does Paul’s use of the word to mean a local congregation support your interpretation?

In Ephesians and Colossians it does seem to mean the universal body of believers, which is the Mystical Body of Christ. However, just as 1 Corinthians insists on the unity of the local body, so Ephesians and Colossians insist on the unity of the universal, mystical Body. This is non-negotiable.

Edwin
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Local congregation supports the claim that “church” means “body of believers”, instead of just one religion, like the CC claims.
 
mrs_abbott said:
Local congregation supports the claim that “church” means “body of believers”, instead of just one religion, like the CC claims.
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“Body of believers” not holding on to the same body of beliefs? That’s hardly what St. Paul and the Gospel writers , let alone Our Lord had in mind for His One Body. As someone has already pointed out, the local congregation or “churches” is seen in the functioning of local parishes all united under one Bishop, e.g., the Bishop of the Church of Charlotte, NC, who himself is united to the Bishop of Rome. One in Faith, One in Body.
 
mrs_abbott said:
Local congregation supports the claim that “church” means “body of believers”, instead of just one religion, like the CC claims.
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I do not see how this is the case. Perhaps I do not understand what you mean by “body of believers.” If you mean some kind of Protestant “invisible Church” consisting of all believers throughout the world, then that seems to me to be completely at odds with the meaning of “ekklesia” in Corinthians and other of Paul’s early/undisputed letters. Paul does not tell the Corinthian church that it is OK for them to have different groups following different leaders because they are all part of a “body of believers.” He tells them in no uncertain terms that they must form one local community functioning as the Body of Christ in a particular place and time.

Edwin
 
Contarini said:
I do not see how this is the case. Perhaps I do not understand what you mean by “body of believers.” If you mean some kind of Protestant “invisible Church” consisting of all believers throughout the world, then that seems to me to be completely at odds with the meaning of “ekklesia” in Corinthians and other of Paul’s early/undisputed letters. Paul does not tell the Corinthian church that it is OK for them to have different groups following different leaders because they are all part of a “body of believers.” He tells them in no uncertain terms that they must form one local community functioning as the Body of Christ in a particular place and time.

Edwin
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But they’re not different groups. They are all Christians who are following Christ. Each group just has a different way of going about it. 😉 As long as they believe and teach the gospel message as Jesus instructed and Paul carried out. 👍
 
Michael_Heinzen said:
In browsing the Forum, this thread caught my eye because some Protestants do not see any scandal in denominationalism,
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True. This is one of the most blatant examples of spiritual blindness in Christianity today.
However, non-catholic christians
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Not the Eastern Orthodox. They don’t believe in the Catholic concept of the papacy, but they believe in a unified visible Church.
counter this argument, saying that there IS unity among Bible believers because they all follow the essential doctrines of Christianity as found in the Scriptures, and that their spiritual unity also remains. Their differences are only in externals–e.g., church government and organization, conduct of religious services, the administration of baptism, etc.
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Who counts as a “Bible believer”? Obviously evangelical Protestants differ among each other on doctrinal matters as well as the things you mention–and I am not persuaded that these “externals” are really so unimportant.
Protestants follow Jesus’ injunction in John 13:35: “This is how all will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.”
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I hadn’t particularly noticed that they do. Perhaps you have known more exemplary Protestants than I have.
Protestants and other Bible Christians
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Whatever that latter phrase means. . . . obviously people have the right to dissociate themselves from the Reformation tradition if they want to, as long as they do not make bogus historical claims about having existed before the Reformation or not being historically derived from it!
claim more unity in essential biblical belief and practice than have Catholics who follow unbiblical Traditions which separate them from Truth.

I apologize if my comments are not directly to the point and intention of your subject matter. My hope is that although we have denominational diversity in Christianity, we all can agree on some essentials regarding the Trinity, Morality, Salvation, and the Last Things even if we don’t agree on the makeup of Scripture, validity of Tradition, Sacraments, the Virgin Mary, Purgatory, etc.
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I don’t follow this. Exactly what group has unity? Protestants or “Bible-believing Christians” who reject Catholicism? All Trinitarian Christians?

And why do you think that a purely intellectual unity is enough? If it is a spiritual unity, why not put that unity into concrete action? Unity without mutual accountability is nothing but a sham.

Edwin
 
mrs_abbott said:
But they’re not different groups. They are all Christians who are following Christ. Each group just has a different way of going about it. 😉 As long as they believe and teach the gospel message as Jesus instructed and Paul carried out. 👍
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The same was true of the groups Paul criticized in 1 Corinthians 1, surely! Your assumption that it’s OK for different Christian groups to go off and do their own thing is a modern innovation–it’s foreign to the NT and to early Christianity, and the fact that you grasp at a misinterpretation of Paul to support your position shows how thin the Scriptural support really is!

Edwin
 
Contarini said:
The same was true of the groups Paul criticized in 1 Corinthians 1, surely! Your assumption that it’s OK for different Christian groups to go off and do their own thing is a modern innovation–it’s foreign to the NT and to early Christianity, and the fact that you grasp at a misinterpretation of Paul to support your position shows how thin the Scriptural support really is!

Edwin
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It’s not acceptable to go off and do their own thing. :nope:
Let me ask you something: which religious group do you think has the right idea about how to interpret scripture?
 
mrs_abbott said:
It’s not acceptable to go off and do their own thing. :nope:
Let me ask you something: which religious group do you think has the right idea about how to interpret scripture?
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Interpret this one:

Mark 2 23-28

Read carefully and now read:

1 Sam 21 1-6

Tell me if maybe your whole idea of getting it right by “interpreting scripture” is going to be enough.
 
mrs_abbott said:
It’s not acceptable to go off and do their own thing. :nope:
Let me ask you something: which religious group do you think has the right idea about how to interpret scripture?
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Why would you think I could pronounce decisively about such a difficult issue? I’m not sure there is a “right idea” or right methodology. There is more likely to be a right community. And this is either the general body of Trinitarian Christians (who should therefore get their act together and forget their petty differences), or the Catholic Church, or the Orthodox Church. I see no other live options.

Edwin
 
Hellisreal said:
Interpret this one:

Mark 2 23-28

Read carefully and now read:

1 Sam 21 1-6

Tell me if maybe your whole idea of getting it right by “interpreting scripture” is going to be enough.
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I am going to start a thread on this post and appeal to have this bible stumper solved. Feel free to join in Mrs Abbott.🙂
 
Contarini said:
Why would you think I could pronounce decisively about such a difficult issue? I’m not sure there is a “right idea” or right methodology. There is more likely to be a right community. And this is either the general body of Trinitarian Christians (who should therefore get their act together and forget their petty differences), or the Catholic Church, or the Orthodox Church. I see no other live options.

Edwin
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Just making sure. 😉 I agree with you on this. 🙂
 
mrs_abbott said:
But they’re not different groups. They are all Christians who are following Christ. Each group just has a different way of going about it. 😉 As long as they believe and teach the gospel message as Jesus instructed and Paul carried out. 👍
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You’re right, they are not different groups. They are only different in their nationality or in whatever cultural influence they happen to be associated with. They were all of the Catholic Church. Ignatius of Antioch coined the term in early part of the 2nd century. As Ctholics we all believe the same doctrines that we know to be true because of where and who they came from. We don’t go about doing things in our own way lest we go off to far and end up falling into serious heresy. This seems to be the case with alot of denominations.

*Your assumption is incorrect. The early Christian community was very much interested in doing things the way the Apostles taught. They made sure that when they sent a worthy member of their community to be ordained, they wanted them ordained by one who received their’s from the Apostles or at least one of their close followers. The priests of the communities were also taught on how to “say Mass,” confect the Eucharist. Paul was very clear on telling those under his guidance that they were to be careful to follow all that he had taught them. That doesn’t sound like these churches were to go off and worship “in a different way.” *

Jesus was explicit on what He taught the Apostles and He also sent the Holy Spirit to them to help them remember all that He had taught them so it could be passed on to all the world. Jesus didn’t say, “Just tell them about me and then let them worship in their own way.”

You are reading INTO scripture rather than reading OUT of scripture the meaning intended to suit your own mindset.
 
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