More work advice needed

[Anglewannabe]

My new job is going well and it is a good environment. I thank God everyday for it. I really want to jump in with 2 feet and learn as much as possible to build a career in this field. There are 7 branch offices across Canada. Some of the work is being transferred to the head office from the 7 branches, thus the reason they hired me and ‘Susan’.

Susan is a friendly girl. However, she has struck me as the type who always has to be right but really does not know what she is doing. It is the impression I get. I keep my comments to myself and we get along well socially.

Here are some of the things I can see could turn into a problem if I don’t handle it right. Thus the need for advice before I make a faux pas.

1-) She started 2 weeks before me and was asked to show me some things. All she did was sit beside me with a file folder full of hard copy emails and said ‘This came in from Vancouver’ and turned the page. This came in from a manager, and went on to the next page. When I said 'What am I suppose to do with it, she said ‘I don’t know but I am suppose to show you’ I just sat there and listened and asked if I could please read the emails so I could have an idea of what types of request I could get. She kept ‘telling’ me with authority in her voice what they were, but not once told me what to do. Again, I said nothing and listened. As time is going on, there are other people I can ask and ways I can piece it together myself. However, I shake in my boots every time she comes over to show me something. My concern is, the free ride will end soon and I will not be able to just listen. Management will expect action from me and she is clearly not giving direction. How do I handle this?

2-) The work is slowly being transferred over to head office. This is making the transition easy because I only have to learn one block of business at a time. Yeah ! Our manager keeps saying ‘Once everything is transferred over, we will decide who does what.’ Well, Susan and I each have a block of business. I suggested to her that for now, since we each spent a lot of time learning our block perhaps we can keep them until year end (which is busy time) will be over. She immediately agreed ! Yeah again. Then I said ‘after six month then perhaps we could trade a block at a time’. She interrupted me mid sentence got really defensive and said ‘NO’. She went on and on about how after learning something, she does not want to have to learn again. She even went so far as to say there is one lady in one branch who will not let anyone see her work and even head office does not have access to it and that is what she wants. That no one sees her work. I just listened. What upsets me is I want to learn as much as possible and if she is not willing to trade blocks of business at some point, that cuts my opportunities in half. I tried to polite explain my point of view point she would not hear it. Again I listened but I must admit on the inside I was feeling like there was no room for me to have a different opinion and she was trying to convince me of hers. So I said ‘Susan, I think we need to agree to disagree. I respect your opinion and if you don’t want to trade then we won’t trade. I just need to know that my opinion is respected as well’. She said of course I was respected and then just continued to try to convince me of hers. I listened and then said ‘fair enough’ and went to work. I have decided I will drop the issue for now and if in 6 months I still feel it is a good idea, I will bring it to my manager and let him decide. My concern is if ever we need to make a compromise, she will insist on having her way. How do I act like a team player without being her ‘yes’ woman?

3-) There is a person 2000 miles away that use to do my job. I send her a lot of emails with questions. She is very helpful and knowledgeable. The problem is, because it is email often things get misunderstood and it is frustrating. Also, I am VERY appreciative for everything this lady does. However, I need a lot more information and help that she is giving me. This is because I am new and I really have no idea how some things are done. Because this lady is SO good to me, I don’t want to push more than I am so often I put my questions aside and only ‘disturb’ her with a small fraction of what I need everyday. But again, my concern is the free ride will be over and management will expect me to know things she has not had time to train me on yet. Again, how do I handle this?

4-) When we don’t know how to do something, very often, we will look at what happened 2 months ago, figure out what they did and repeat the process. This is a good way to get it done fast. However, some things are in a contract and we are suppose to follow the official contract. I would like to have a copy of the contract or know where the clause is. In case we are audited, I think being able to pull out a written contract pulls a lot more weight than instructions in an email (that anyone could have written) or simple saying ‘this is how it was always done’. Whenever I ask for a copy of a contract, people look at me as if I am speaking a foreign language. I have a real hard time believing we do not have these things in writing with customers. After all, they must have agreed to some terms before doing business with us. Again, how do I handle this? Do I just not worry about the contract and hope I am never audited

Again, things are going really well at my new job. I just want advice on these issues BEFORE I do something I regret

Angie

 

[UpUpAndAway]

I am a girl, and a workaholic. The following is my opinion as a former manager in a moderately stressful male-dominated field. To prevent being walked all over, I often had to assert myself to the limit of being obnoxious about it—and I am a natural introvert so this did not come easily to me. I grew up in the 80s and thus have a 1980s attitude towards employment (i.e. willingness to work yourself to death is a virtue), but last held a paying job in 2001 (I stopped working by choice) thus have no direct experience with any potential evolution in corporate culture since then. I spent my entire brief career in the US and have thus never worked in Canada. Just so you know where I’m coming from.

1. 
   *]Someone who started two weeks before you did is just as new as you are. There is no “seniority” issue here, so you should not be afraid of upsetting Susan on the basis that she is more senior than you are. I don’t understand why you are so afraid—shaking in your boots—of someone who has no authority over you. If you’re unable to get the guidance you need from Susan (and frankly I don’t know why management would entrust even part of your training to someone who is so new to the company herself), seek it from other colleagues. If even that doesn’t work, take your questions to your supervisor.
   *]Why do you “need” to know your opinion is respected, especially by someone who has no managerial authority over you? If Susan doesn’t respect it—and it certainly doesn’t sound as if she does, though I recognize that I only have one side of this story—so what? At that point there is little more you can do than agree to disagree and move on. As for the rest of this point, cross that bridge when you get to it.
   *]Make a list of all your questions, then ask this helpful person if you can set up a time to call her and discuss. Calling eliminates the miscommunication email often engenders. A 2,000-mile distance indicates a time difference as well, so I suggest you be willing to field this call outside your normal working hours—even if you must do so from home—if that’s what fits into the kind lady’s schedule.
   *]This sounds like an issue for management to address. If you can’t get any joy from them, I don’t see what else you can do. However, if you get audited (who does the audits, by the way?), the absence of a written contract won’t be on your head. Just say what you’ve said here, that you asked in vain for a copy of the written contract. Then refer the auditor(s) to your supervisor.
   
   YMMV. Good luck and God bless!

 

[pianistclare]

Good advice from UpUp here.
But seriously, this happened at your last position.
You picked apart every little occurrence and decided YOU know best.
You’re new. roll with it. It’s too soon to be upsetting co-workers and making waves.
She’s new like you. At some point they will examine who is necessary and who is not.
You don’t want to be the “complainer”.
Keep your nose to the grindstone and stop peering into other’s motivations, work, and abilities. Focus on doing YOUR job as it is assigned to you, and yes, call that woman with questions when you’re really confused. But don’t pester people.
You have a fresh start.
When I read the first paragraph I thought “she’s doing the same things all over again…while accusing this other girl of being a know-it-all.”

You’re in our prayers.
Just TRY to be a team player.
This is your new start.
It’s too soon to have issues with everyone.
Peace.

 

[Vic_Taltrees_UK]

You’ve got to see the contracts and be able to re-refer to them at all times. Make a verifiable record that you asked for that.

You’ve got to be able to re-refer to e-mails and other documents containing instructions. Are they available to you at all times? Again record your request.

(Unless you are on the road at certain times or something practical like that.)

Choose your moments carefully for asking questions and the light in which you frame them.

(This is without having checked out your previous threads about employment.)

 

[PolarGuy]

Agree with what pianistclare said.

 

[Vic_Taltrees_UK]

I have read some of your other threads and this has given me an idea.

I also strongly endorse what pianistclare says. Simply take a note for your own reference (maybe even a mental note) of what you would request in certain circumstances, without committing yourself to actually doing so.

My own experience now that I am in my 60s and having left work, and having had a workplace coach for a few years after the age of 42, is partly in countering my masked dyslexic characteristics and developing my memory powers.

I developed my own version of speed reading by using semi-peripheral vision and recognising key words in any couple of lines, hence getting the hang of the flow of the subject matter from paragraph to paragraph.

At the same time using mind maps (spider diagrams) developed my visual thinking and visual memory re problems, issues and the content of documents.

As circumstances permitted I introduced as much bright colour as possible to my stationery and my desk (I would next most prefer a consistent dull colour).

Hence if you don’t have continuous access to documents that sort of thing may help though it obviously is important to have access to them some of the time.

O God, please grant Anglewannabe success!

 

[shainski]

4-) When we don’t know how to do something, very often, we will look at what happened 2 months ago, figure out what they did and repeat the process. This is a good way to get it done fast. However, some things are in a contract and we are suppose to follow the official contract. I would like to have a copy of the contract or know where the clause is. In case we are audited, I think being able to pull out a written contract pulls a lot more weight than instructions in an email (that anyone could have written) or simple saying ‘this is how it was always done’. Whenever I ask for a copy of a contract, people look at me as if I am speaking a foreign language. I have a real hard time believing we do not have these things in writing with customers. After all, they must have agreed to some terms before doing business with us. Again, how do I handle this? Do I just not worry about the contract and hope I am never audited

I have an anecdote about this. Years ago, I worked at a mid-size company. It was year-end, and I was responsible for getting a lot of our financial information finished. I was under heavy deadlines - I had to deal with internal and external auditors - while trying to balance actually getting the numbers done. And then our computers went down - and I had no way to get the information I needed. Some of the information was not material, so I took liberty to estimate it as best I could.

Years later, I had left that company - but was brought back as a consultant. I was questioning how they were doing something. I got the answer “This is how we always do it”. So I asked for some back up to try to figure out if what they were doing had any merit. As I went through the files - I came across my own estimates from that ill-fated year.

All this time, they had used my own estimates as the new method for how to do the math. And now that block of business was more significant than it had been when I had been there. Every generation had passed on my “method” to the next person - and my method had become kind of a “ten commandments” of how to do it.

I was shocked. I had done something just to get the work done under heavy pressure years before - and now the “shainski method” was they way it was to be done. (the way it had always been done)

So, my advice to you - if you don’t understand something - try to go back to the source (if you can). Try to get the original documents to understand why. (Now I do have to say - not everything is material, so you do have to use some judgement about whether it is worthwhile to the company to spend a lot of time and money on something that isn’t that important)

 

[Sunbreak]

The other woman is just as new as you are so ask someone else for help. She can’t be expected to know everything. There are a certain amount of things you just have to learn on your own in a new job. It’s not realistic that people are going to tell you how to do every little thing. Many jobs have little training and you are expected to figure it out on your own.
As to her respecting you and having to have it her way - well it sounds like you are wanting to do the same thing and have it your way. Let the manager decide.
The woman who did your job before has her own work to do wherever she is now. I would not contact her very much at all. She has been very gracious in helping you.
If you have asked for the contract and it is not made available to you then all you can do is exactly what you have done - go by what has been done before. It may be hard for you to accept that they don’t refer to the contract on a regular basis, but the contract may only be more general in nature - that is, one company has agreed to provide services to another for a certain period of time and that is it. It is certainly possible that the contract doesn’t specify in detail how things will be done. I worked as a buyer and many professional services contracts were like this - the service is agreed upon, not how it is done.

 

[maryjk]

Anglewannabe;
Please listen to the advice here.

BEFORE you respond, truly think about what UpUpAndAway and pianistclare have said.

Because at some point, it stops being the co-workers.

 

[PhiloMed]

Anglewannabe;
Please listen to the advice here.

BEFORE you respond, truly think about what UpUpAndAway and pianistclare have said.

Because at some point, it stops being the co-workers.

+2:thumbsup:

 

[underacloud]

Pianistclare is dead right. Please listen to her.

Angie, the issues you describe here - similar to your past issues too - are pretty much universal. Every place of employment will have similar issues of people struggling to understand how things are done and why, and struggling to work together since everyone will have different styles, personalities, work ethics, etc. It’s admirable to try to effect positive change, but don’t despair when things don’t change. You need to learn how to become comfortable with these imperfections.

 

[Anglewannabe]

I don’t understand why you are so afraid—shaking in your boots—of someone who has no authority over you. If you’re unable to get the guidance you need from Susan (and frankly I don’t know why management would entrust even part of your training to someone who is so new to the company herself), seek it from other colleagues.

The reason I shake in my boots is because she will come over with authority in her voice. She will say ‘The manager has asked me to show you XYZ’. So I believe she has something to show me. But the reality is, she tells me NOTHING concrete. And I have no idea what she is telling me. I will be in the middle of reading documentation or taking notes on things so I don’t forget. I feel like she is interrupting me from actually being productive. And I don’t know how much time I should spend listening to her and how to politely get back to my work. I want to have the reputation of being a well liked team player and I feel the only way to get her to like me is to humour her monologues.

*]Why do you “need” to know your opinion is respected, especially by someone who has no managerial authority over you?

In the heat of the moment I was taking it personally.

If Susan doesn’t respect it—and it certainly doesn’t sound as if she does, though I recognize that I only have one side of this story—so what? At that point there is little more you can do than agree to disagree and move on.

I was trying my best to move on. I said ‘How about we just agree to disagree, I respect you don’t like my idea and won’t push’. But she kept insisting on explaining her point of view after I made it clear since she did not like my idea I was willing to forget about it

*]Make a list of all your questions, then ask this helpful person if you can set up a time to call her and discuss.

As much as I agree with your idea, I suspect in this culture people prefer a short question now and then. I wouldn’t know how to pull off your idea in a tactful way

*]This sounds like an issue for management to address. If you can’t get any joy from them, I don’t see what else you can do. However, if you get audited (who does the audits, by the way?), the absence of a written contract won’t be on your head. Just say what you’ve said here, that you asked in vain for a copy of the written contract. Then refer the auditor(s) to your supervisor.

YMMV. Good luck and God bless !

Well, I actually talked to my manager today. I said ‘Miss lady 2000 miles away gives me great help. However, I often don’t know where in the contract she is referencing or which contract she is even referencing. As much as I trust she knows what she is doing, I thin if ever we were audited, it would be better to have the written document.’

My manager responded ‘Well, I guess we will just have to go with emails’. So I have decided to just let that one go. If management is aware and they told me not to worry about it, I can live with that

Thanks for your help

 

[Anglewannabe]

Good advice from UpUp here.
But seriously, this happened at your last position.

I know that is why I posted NOW before things got out of hand

You picked apart every little occurrence and decided YOU know best.

I am very detail oriented so I can see how I come across as picking on everything. However, I did NOT decide I know best. If she could give me a logical explanation I would hear her out. However she does NOT give logical explanations. Things she says just don’ t hold up. For example, the work use to be done in the branches but one lady ‘Mary’ did some of it at head office yet she could see everyone’s work. One of the lady’s in a branch is called ‘Betty’. Susan said to me ‘Mary can see everyone’s work except for Betty’s. Betty decided she just was NOT going to let anyone see her work. I want to be like Betty and not let anyone see my work’. My manager will be out of town to get the work from Betty and we will be doing it at head office in 2 weeks. I made a comment to Mary ‘This could be hard, I heard that Betty refused to let anyone see her work and we will really have to start from scratch.’ Mary told me that is not true she always could see Betty’s work. So from where I am sitting, if I catch Susan in a lie, I can not trust her. Especially since her arguments never make sense. Did she seriously think I was going to believe people could keep their work secret?

You’re new. roll with it. It’s too soon to be upsetting co-workers and making waves.
She’s new like you. At some point they will examine who is necessary and who is not.
You don’t want to be the “complainer”.

Agreed which is why I have said nothing at work, and again, why I came here before it got out of hand

 

[Anglewannabe]

You’ve got to be able to re-refer to e-mails and other documents containing instructions. Are they available to you at all times? Again record your request.

All I can do is keep a copy of all the request I made via email and the answers that have been given back to me. If I ask for a contract and I don’t get it, there is nothing further I can do.

 

[pianistclare]

I know that is why I posted NOW before things got out of hand

I am very detail oriented so I can see how I come across as picking on everything. However, I did NOT decide I know best. If she could give me a logical explanation I would hear her out. However she does NOT give logical explanations. Things she says just don’ t hold up. For example, the work use to be done in the branches but one lady ‘Mary’ did some of it at head office yet she could see everyone’s work. One of the lady’s in a branch is called ‘Betty’. Susan said to me ‘Mary can see everyone’s work except for Betty’s. Betty decided she just was NOT going to let anyone see her work. I want to be like Betty and not let anyone see my work’. My manager will be out of town to get the work from Betty and we will be doing it at head office in 2 weeks. I made a comment to Mary ‘This could be hard, I heard that Betty refused to let anyone see her work and we will really have to start from scratch.’ Mary told me that is not true she always could see Betty’s work. So from where I am sitting, if I catch Susan in a lie, I can not trust her. Especially since her arguments never make sense. Did she seriously think I was going to believe people could keep their work secret?

Agreed which is why I have said nothing at work, and again, why I came here before it got out of hand

OK, I’m confused., You just posted two posts where you claim to have said ALOT.

 

[Anglewannabe]

OK, I’m confused., You just posted two posts where you claim to have said ALOT.

I am confused as well. I am not sure what you mean by I have said a lot? When she told me she did not want to do my way, I did NOT push my opinions or ideas or try to convince her of my point of view. I decided NOT to say anything further. How have I said a lot at work?

 

[pianistclare]

I am confused as well. I am not sure what you mean by I have said a lot? When she told me she did not want to do my way, I did NOT push my opinions or ideas or try to convince her of my point of view. I decided NOT to say anything further. How have I said a lot at work?

Well, maybe not outright…sorry, but your posts suggest that you are not able to take what a person says and accept it at face value.
As in
“we don’t do it that way”.

We have a new employee where I work: She came in and is clearly thinking she’s going to show everyone how to change what they do to her liking.
Nobody likes her.
NOBODY. Even the little old ladies run the other way or roll their eyes when she gets on a tear. Her “tears” are the constant “why” “I don’t think we should do it this way” and “that’s not MY job, you do it”.
Not much of a team player, and the boss can’t figure out why no one likes her.
I’m just saying…the more you harbor these many complaints…the less likely you’re going to fit into the team. And isn’t that what you want? So long as you are doing exactly what they ask of you, no matter how much it doesn’t seem to make sense right at the moment, you’ll survive.
Just chill out.
Also, make a friend who doesn’t work there with whom you can vent from time to time.
Sometimes people can’t say things, but the expressions on their faces says a lot.
Maybe it’s not big of a deal? I can’t see how it could be this early on in your employment.
Desiring to do your very best ( I know you do) and “getting” the vibe and the flow of a workplace takes time.
You haven’t been there long enough to make these judgments.
You don’t know everything there is to know about the company.
When you do, and the boss asks you? Vent away.
Best wishes!

 

[mommy_k]

I would focus on getting to know co-workers and making office friends. This is a very important part of a positive work enviornment and you will learn about the office and company procedure this way. Balance that with your tasks-and people will help you. And you can return the favor too…

Good luck in your new position!

 

[Anglewannabe]

Well, maybe not outright…sorry, but your posts suggest that you are not able to take what a person says and accept it at face value.
As in
“we don’t do it that way”.

If I understand correctly, you are telling me that when someone says ‘We don’t do it that way’ I should just accept it? If that is the case, here is my responses.

There are certain things, it does NOT matter how they are done and I am more than willing to go with the flow and do it the way others want to be a team player.

There are other things they are legal requirements imposed by the government we need to follow or we have a contract with a client we must honour. When someone says ‘this is how we do it’ I will often say ‘Can you please show me where this is in the contract. Next time this issue comes up, I will be able to look it up myself instead of disturbing you’. And often, the other person will NOT know where it is in the contract. This is were I get frustrated. As previously posted, my manager has told me that if all I can get is an email with the instructions it will suffice. So I am going to let it go and when contracts are renewed make sure I keep a copy. Also, because I am new, I suspect people don’t realize where my knowledge is lacking and give answers that I can not fully understand because I do not have the background. I suspect that when I come back with questions, a-) they are finding it annoying and b-) Because I am new, I am not asking the right way. I suspect I need to word my questions better. Lastly, there is one thing I need to do that I know is legal requirement and rather than ask someone, I have from home emailed the government department that can give me the answer.

We have a new employee where I work: She came in and is clearly thinking she’s going to show everyone how to change what they do to her liking.
Nobody likes her.
NOBODY. Even the little old ladies run the other way or roll their eyes when she gets on a tear. Her “tears” are the constant “why” “I don’t think we should do it this way” and “that’s not MY job, you do it”.
Not much of a team player, and the boss can’t figure out why no one likes her.

I can totally understand no one liking that person. That is why when someone asks me to do something, I always said ‘sure I would love to help’ When someone shows me something useful I thank them. When someone spends time trying to help me figure something out I say ‘let me write that down so I don’t have to disturb you again.’ I try very hard to give credit and appreciation to my co-workers efforts. However, there are certain things I will eventually be expected to know because my manager does not have time to keep track of these things and will need me to be his go-to person. I am just concerned I will not be able to learn these things before the free ride runs out.

Best wishes!

Thanks

 

[pianistclare]

There are certain things, it does NOT matter how they are done and I am more than willing to go with the flow and do it the way others want to be a team player.

It doesn’t really sound like it or you wouldn’t have posted so much about it .

There are other things they are legal requirements imposed by the government we need to follow or we have a contract with a client we must honor. When someone says ‘this is how we do it’ I will often say ‘Can you please show me where this is in the contract. Next time this issue comes up, I will be able to look it up myself instead of disturbing you’. And often, the other person will NOT know where it is in the contract. This is were I get frustrated.

That’s because they have worked there longer. They are basically saying “trust me it’s fine”. In which case, it’s probably fine.

Lastly, there is one thing I need to do that I know is legal requirement and rather than ask someone, I have from home emailed the government department that can give me the answer.

That’s not going to win you points.

However, there are certain things I will eventually be expected to know because my manager does not have time to keep track of these things and will need me to be his go-to person.

You don’t know that. They get paid to have the time to solve problems. That’s why they are the boss.

Thanks

You’re welcome.
Just chill OUT!
Your zeal to be a great employee is going to aggravate people. Honest. Do you best yes, but stop micromanaging yourself and others.