paul barlow:
I have a question. some of you claim that you do not except our baptism. But except all other groups, so you except the church of england, methodist,baptist ect. and you share communion with them. Are these groups not apostates and if you recognize there baptisms ect, Does this not mean that you are excepting apostate doctrine and thus become apostate. When did this teaching change and by What authority.
Paul,
It’s true that no one in the Catholic Church would accept a LDS baptism as licit - but it’s not because of the order of the words, but rather the very different doctrines of the Godhead, the trinity. Again, I’ll quote a very basic Creed that is used by both Catholics and the C of E (as an example) that is a profession that could not be made by a member of the LDS church:
We believe in one God,
the Father, the Almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all that is, seen and unseen.
We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ,
the only son of God,
eternally begotten of the Father,
God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made,
one being with the Father.
Through him all things were made.
For us men and for our salvation
he came down from heaven:
by the power of the Holy Spirit
he was born of the Virgin Mary,
and became man.
For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate;
he suffered, died, and was buried.
On the third day he rose again
in fulfillment of the Scriptures;
he ascended into heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again in glory
to judge the living and the dead,
and his kingdom will have no end.
We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life,
who proceeds from the Father and the Son.
With the Father and the Son
he is worshipped and glorified.
He has spoken through the Prophets.
We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church.
We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.
We look for the resurrection of the dead,
and the life of the world to come. AMEN.
Many protestant churches use this, or the simpler “Apostle’s Creed” in their liturgies as beliefs held in common with most of Christendom. As “we acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins”, we acknowledge as valid those baptisms that have been conferred in other churches who have the same doctrine of the Trinity as the Catholic Church - C of E, Methodist, etc. If there is a “doubt” about the validity of baptism, or if someone simply does not know when or if they were baptized, they can always receive what is popularly called “conditional” baptism. No, we are not accepting apostate doctrine - the Trinity has never been an issue with most protestant churches - so there has never been a change in teaching (save on some protestant churches part, I suppose - so many different churches but I can think of only a few, offhand, that deny the doctrine of the Trinity).
paul barlow:
Now onto there priesthood when the church of england decided to except women vicars some joined your church. They were married and were allowed in and became priests without going through a full training in your church. My wife is a student nurse and she became friendly with a lady who married a priest. they were treated very badly. If a church of england vicar can become a priest while married. Why can not a catholic priest.
This is not an attack but its simuler to what you do to us.
There is not a great deal, doctrinally, that separates the C of E from the Catholic Church. Those Anglican priests have - perhaps not knowingly! - been “in training” to become Catholic priests all of their lives! So there is not a great deal of “training” that they need go through (some, yes, but not the ‘full course’!). A Catholic priest, in the Western rite (“Roman” Catholic) takes a vow of celibacy - makes a promise to remain celibate. And if an unmarried C of E priest came into the Roman Catholic Church unmarried, he, too, would make the same promise. I’m not sure if you mean that your wife’s friend and her husband were treated very badly by the C of E (which they left) or the Roman Catholic Church (which they entered). My limited experience with married clergy who were formerly C of E, both here and in the UK, has always been very positive - converts very often make us cradle Catholics seem absolutely unenthusiastic about our own faith!
Although I lived in the UK for a number of years I don’t recall meeting any LDS so I’m uncertain as to what relations are like between the C of E and the LDS but I would imagine that the C of E, like the Catholic Church, would not recognize a LDS baptism as valid. Might want to check me on that one, though.
