Mormans and polygamy

[coco2]

I know that the Mormon religion no longer accepts polygamy, but obviously some still practice it. The show on TV, Sister Wives does nothing to help their cause, I’m sure. I watched several episodes back to back and I don’t even see them mentioning God at all. They mention the importance of family, but my goodness the poor women and all the emotional suffering they endure. Could someone explain the reasoning behind it and how this would be pleasing to God? Also, if the LDS now do not allow it, how did they come to that conclusion? Or is it only because it is against the law?

 

[WetCatechumen]

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, which is headquartered in Salt Lake City, Utah, and whose President is Thomas S. Monson, does not currently practice temporal polygamy. The practice of polygamy is grounds for excommunication in that church.

If you wish to criticize the past behavior of the Mormon Church, then you may. However, your complaints about the treatment of the women on Sister Wives should be directed towards the specific Mormon breakaway sect that they are a part of.

 

[coco2]

I’m sorry. I don’t mean to criticize, just trying to understand. After thinking about it, I also realize that the people on that show are exploiting themselves and admittedly need the money. They do not seem to be particularly religious, but I know that is not characteristic of most Mormons. I also know some people who are Mormon, but not well enough to ask all of these questions, therefore I am asking here.

So, let me rephrase. Why was polygamy allowed ( encouraged?) at one time AND why is it not now? After watching the show, the why it isn’t now seems obvious to me, but I am sure there is an actual reason the Mormon church has for it.

By the way, I am Roman Catholic and know what it is like to be criticized for my faith on a regular basis.

 

[zerinus]

I’m sorry. I don’t mean to criticize, just trying to understand. After thinking about it, I also realize that the people on that show are exploiting themselves and admittedly need the money. They do not seem to be particularly religious, but I know that is not characteristic of most Mormons. I also know some people who are Mormon, but not well enough to ask all of these questions, therefore I am asking here.

So, let me rephrase. Why was polygamy allowed ( encouraged?) at one time AND why is it not now? After watching the show, the why it isn’t now seems obvious to me, but I am sure there is an actual reason the Mormon church has for it.

By the way, I am Roman Catholic and know what it is like to be criticized for my faith on a regular basis.

It was allowed, and indeed commanded, because it was the will of the Lord that it should be revealed and practiced at that time. We believe it is permissible when it is allowed and commanded by the Lord; otherwise it is not. We believe that the ancient prophets and patriarchs who practiced it in the Old Testament did so with the approval of the Lord.

The reason why it was stopped was because it was declared unlawful by the US government. We also believe that we should abide by the law of the land. When the US Constitutional Court declared it unlawful, we complied with the law. We haven’t abandoned the theology of it, as expressed in the above paragraph; but we discontinued the practice to comply with the law of the land.

And by the way, TV shows and soap operas are not accurate portrayal of polygamy as it was practiced righteously by the ancient prophets, or by the early Mormons. That is not the right way to go about judging such things.

 

[KathleenGee]

The Catholic faith does not kow tow to any government.

Does Mormonism have martyrs?

 

[flyonthewall]

The Catholic faith does not kow tow to any government.

Come now Kathleen, look to your own history and see differently.

Does Mormonism have martyrs?

Joseph Smith and his brother Hyrum were martyred.
Anyone who gives their life rather than forsake their faith in Jesus Christ can be called a martyr.

Now can you tie this in with the OP?

 

[RebeccaJ]

Come now Kathleen, look to your own history and see differently.

Joseph Smith and his brother Hyrum were martyred.
Anyone who gives their life rather than forsake their faith in Jesus Christ can be called a martyr.

Now can you tie this in with the OP?

Surely…many different events led to the murder of Smith, the climax being when his (and other LDS leader’s) private/secret practice of marrying many women was made public in the one and only publication of the “Nauvoo Expositor”. A practice that his first wife, Emma, denied to the end of her life.

It became a defining doctrine of the various Mormon splinter groups. Those who practice polygamy and view it as a divine order, and those who view it as an indication that Smith had turned into a false prophet.

 

[pablope]

Come now Kathleen, look to your own history and see differently.

Joseph Smith and his brother Hyrum were martyred.

 

[flyonthewall]

Are you serious? Can you provide a link, based on true facts, that show how Joseph Smith died? Or the reason why he was killed?

A mob stormed the jail he was incarcerated in and shot him…that is fact. The only reason Joseph was a person of interest to anyone was because of his religious beliefs.
This is simple basic knowledge.

here is a link that describes the events of their martyrdom based on fact.
en.fairmormon.org/Joseph_Smith/Martyrdom/Qualification_as_martyr

 

[coco2]

Thank you for your response, Zerinus. I don’t know enough about the Mormon religion to know some other things, so if you don’t mind I’d like to ask another question. Do Mormons consider Jesus to be the Messiah? I am wondering this because if Jesus came to die for us to have salvation, why would God need to send a messenger to Joseph Smith to start an entire new religion,( or is it?) which does contradict some things in the Bible, like the marriage issue in the New Testament.

Yeah, I realize that the TV show is completely exploiting polygamy for financial gain, so I am now looking at it as not at all a reliable source to understand the issue.

 

[CEM5]

I’m sorry. I don’t mean to criticize, just trying to understand…

So, let me rephrase. Why was polygamy allowed ( encouraged?) at one time AND why is it not now?.

Hello coco2,

Personally, I did not see your post as being criticizing at all. You were/are just trying to understand the why and how of the LDS polygamy practice.

Ironically, it is those so-called “breakaway sects” that still practice polygamy who see the modern LDS Mormons as heretical, since, in the fundamentalists’ views, they no longer adhere to the original teachings/practices of Joseph Smith. (Just to set the record straight, I do not agree with polygamy!)

Joseph Smith, Mormonism’s founder, taught the doctrine of a “plurality of gods”—polytheism (belief in more than one God)—as the bedrock belief of his church. He developed this doctrine over a period of years to reflect his belief that not only are there many gods, but they once were mortal men who had developed in righteousness until they had learned enough and merited godhood.

The Mormon church uses the term “eternal progression” for this process, and it refers to godhood as “exaltation.” Such euphemisms (“nice” words) are used because the idea of men becoming gods is blasphemous to orthodox Christians, and NOT what Jesus or His Apostles ever taught.

From his first vision in 1820 until his death in 1844, Joseph Smith crafted and modified his doctrines, often altering them so drastically that they became something else entirely as years passed. He claims to have seen an angel who revealed certain things to Smith. Yet, the Bible is quite clear in warning us:

Gal 1: – 6 I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— 7 not that there is another gospel, but there are some who are confusing you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should proclaim to you a gospel contrary to what we proclaimed to you, let that one be accursed! 9 As we have said before, so now I repeat, if anyone proclaims to you a gospel contrary to what you received, let that one be accursed!

2 Corinthians 11:14 NRSA
And no wonder! Even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light.Joseph Smith proclaimed a VERY different “gospel” than that taught by Christ and the Apostles.

Mormons also believe and teach that all men (so long as they are “good” Mormons) will reach godhood (become gods), and together with their “goddess” wives, will beget for all eternity “spirit children”. These spirit children will become mortal beings on some planet (of which the parents are the god and goddess) and worship them as we here on planet earth worship Jesus – the god of this planet.

Yet Jesus said regarding the afterlife:
Matthew 22: – 27 Last of all, the woman herself died. 28 In the resurrection, then, whose wife of the seven will she be? For all of them had married her." 29 Jesus answered them, "You are wrong, because you know neither the scriptures nor the power of God. 30 For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven.This is because there is no marriage or sexual acts in heaven.

Mormon Doctrine also teaches that:** “Believers in the doctrines of modern Christendom will reap damnation to their souls **(Morm. 8; Moro. 8)" (Mormon Doctrine, 1966, Bruce R. McConkie, 177).

Some contemporary Mormons embarrassed—at least publicly—by McConkie’s ranting, will respond with, “That’s only his opinion.” This is calculatingly insincere (deceptive) at best. Keep in mind that McConkie, who died in 1985, was raised to the level of “apostle” in the Mormon church after he had written all these things. To a Mormon, that means what their “apostle” taught is true. And still today, his Mormon Doctrine is published by a church-owned publishing company and remains one of the church’s bestsellers.

2 Peter 2:1 - 1 But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive opinions. They will even deny the Master who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves.

Joseph Smith also dabbled in the occult and practiced divination, and the Lord warned us not to do this or to follow anyone who does such things: they are called by the Lord an “abomination” and the Lord said He would turn against such a person and those who follow such. (Lev 20:1-6; Deut 18:10-12)

Smith was deemed a fraud from the beginning (pay attention to his many failed prophesies!), and he introduced polygamy because of his nature. He took other mens’ wives and very young teens claiming “god” told him to do so, thus making his adultery sanctioned by “god”.

Yet - what did Jesus say?!!
Matthew 5:27 NRSA
"You have heard that it was said, "You shall not commit adultery.’

Matthew 5:28 NRSA
But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lust has already committed adultery with her in his heart.See, Jesus told us that certain things were permitted in the age of Moses, such as divorce, because of the “hardness of men’s hearts”, yet it was “not so in since the beginning”.and Jesus came to also set us straight. Having more than one wife or being with another other than your spouse is committing adultery plain and simple.It is evil.

Matthew 15:19 NRSA
For out of the heart come evil intentions, murder, adultery, fornication, theft, false witness, slander.

blessings,
CEM

 

[CEM5]

Thank you for your response, Zerinus. I don’t know enough about the Mormon religion to know some other things, so if you don’t mind I’d like to ask another question. Do Mormons consider Jesus to be the Messiah? I am wondering this because if Jesus came to die for us to have salvation, why would God need to send a messenger to Joseph Smith to start an entire new religion,( or is it?) which does contradict some things in the Bible, like the marriage issue in the New Testament.QUOTE]

Hello coco2,

I hope you don’t mind if I answer: They believe in the plurality of gods, and think Jesus is another “god” – they do not believe in the Trinity, or what Christ and the Apostles taught. Mormons, Jehovah Witnesses and other sects that do not believe in the Trinity are called “pseudo-christians” (meaning “false christians”).

God did not need to send anyone else. Jesus is God incarnate and came to show us the way to eternal salvation. He left us a Church on earth (His earthly kingdom) which He promised He would always be with and guide to all truth (in matters on Faith and Morality). He gave Peter the “keys to the kingdom” and put Peter in charge of His flock of sheep and lambs (that is all of us Christians).

Matt 16: - 17 And Jesus answered him, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father in heaven. 18 And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not prevail against it. 19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.”

John 21:15 - 17 NRSA
15 When they had finished breakfast, Jesus said to Simon Peter, “Simon son of John, do you love me more than these?” He said to him, “Yes, Lord; you know that I love you.” Jesus said to him, “Feed my lambs.” 16 A second time he said to him, “Simon son of John, do you love me?” He said to him, “Yes, Lord; you know that I love you.” Jesus said to him, “Tend my sheep.” 17 He said to him the third time, “Simon son of John, do you love me?” Peter felt hurt because he said to him the third time, “Do you love me?” And he said to him, “Lord, you know everything; you know that I love you.” Jesus said to him, “Feed my sheep.”

Interestingly, the Muslim religion was founded the same way as the Mormon religion. Both Mohammed and Joseph Smith claimed to have been visited by an angel. Both were illiterate men. Both believed in polygamy. Both made up their own “sacred texts” that taught new and heretical “doctrines”/practices. (the Koran and Book of Mormon). What is also of importance is that Mohammed at first believed this “angel” was Satan and was very afraid. Yet his wife convinced him otherwise.

blessings,
CEM

 

[CEM5]

A mob stormed the jail he was incarcerated in and shot him…that is fact. The only reason Joseph was a person of interest to anyone was because of his religious beliefs.
This is simple basic knowledge.

here is a link that describes the events of their martyrdom based on fact.
en.fairmormon.org/Joseph_Smith/Martyrdom/Qualification_as_martyr

A martyr is a “witness” of God’s truth who dies peacefully for their faith in God’s truth.No violence on the martyr’s part.

Regarding Joseph Smith’s death at Carthage Jail, Doctrine and Covenants 135:4 says:

“When Joseph went to Carthage to deliver himself up to the pretended requirements of the law, two or three days previous to his assassination, he said: “I am going like a lamb to the slaughter; but I am calm as a summer’s morning; I have a conscience void of offense towards God, and towards all men. I SHALL DIE INNOCENT, AND IT SHALL YET BE SAID OF ME—HE WAS MURDERED IN COLD BLOOD.”

Joseph Smith jumped out of the jail building fighting to escape and murdered 3 people in doing so. Gunshot was returned, thus ending this adulterer’s life. This is not a martyrs death, but that of one ended committing violence and not a “lamb’s death” as those of martyrs in past and present who died without fighting against another for their lives.

Zina D. Huntington, one of Joseph Smith’s polygamous wives, declared: “I am the widow of a master mason, who, when leaping from the window of Carthage Jail pierced with bullets, made the masonic sign of distress.” Joeseph Smith made this sign hoping to appeal to Masons to save his life.) – Latter-day Saint Biographical Encyclopedia, Andrew Jenson, Volume 1, page 698

John Taylor, who became the third President of the Mormon Church, made these statements concerning the death of Joseph Smith:

"Elder Cyrus H. Wheelock came in to see us, and when he was about leaving drew a small pistol, a six-shooter, from his pocket, remarking at the same time, 'Would any of you like to have this?' Brother Joseph immediately replied, 'Yes, give it to me,' whereupon he took the pistol, and put it in his pantaloons pocket.... I was sitting at one of the front windows of the jail, when I saw a number of men, with painted faces, coming around the corner of the jail, and aiming towards the stairs....

"I shall never forget the deep feeling of sympathy and regard manifested in the countenance of Brother Joseph as he drew nigh to Hyrum, and, leaning over him, exclaimed, 'Oh! my poor, dear brother Hyrum!' He, [Joseph Smith] however, instantly arose, and with a firm, quick step, and a determined expression of countenance, approached the door, and pulling the six-shooter left by Brother Wheelock from his pocket, opened the door slightly, and snapped the pistol six successive times; only three of the barrels, however, were discharged. I afterwards understood that two or three were wounded by these discharges, two of whom, I am informed died." (History of the Church, Vol. 7, p. 100, 102 & 103)

blessings,
CEM

 

[zerinus]

Thank you for your response, Zerinus. I don’t know enough about the Mormon religion to know some other things, so if you don’t mind I’d like to ask another question. Do Mormons consider Jesus to be the Messiah?

Yes, they do.

I am wondering this because if Jesus came to die for us to have salvation, why would God need to send a messenger to Joseph Smith to start an entire new religion, ( or is it?) . . .

It is not a new religion. It is a new dispensation of the old religion. It is a restoration of the original and true gospel. We believe that the early Christianity apostatized, therefore it needed to be restored. Protestants believe in a Reformation. We believe that when the priesthood authority is lost, the only solution is a Restoration, not Reformation.

. . . which does contradict some things in the Bible, like the marriage issue in the New Testament.

We don’t believe it contradicts the Bible, on any issue.

Yeah, I realize that the TV show is completely exploiting polygamy for financial gain, so I am now looking at it as not at all a reliable source to understand the issue.

Thank you for your inquiry. Mormons will be pleased to answer your questions.

 

[pablope]

It was allowed, and indeed commanded, because it was the will of the Lord that it should be The reason why it was stopped was because it was declared unlawful by the US government. We also believe that we should abide by the law of the land. When the US Constitutional Court declared it unlawful, we complied with the law. We haven’t abandoned the theology of it, as expressed in the above paragraph; but we discontinued the practice to comply with the law of the land.

 

[KathleenGee]

I was not at all being facetious or hypocritical.

Did Joseph Smith kill other men right before he died?

Going West, wasn’t there some massacre when the Mormons left the place of their origins?

Almost all the Apostles of Christ and St. Paul were martyrs. St Stephen, a deacon, was the first martyr, and it is alleged that St. Paul was possibly a witness to his death. Before his conversion, St. Paul martyred Christians. There were many beginning Christians who were martyred for their faith. There was a period of time when the Roman Empire considered the Christians a threat to their well being, afraid that Christian belief would make the gods angry.

During ancient Roman times, there were zealous Christians who went about knocking down pagan god statues. They were killed. However, the Church did not designate their deaths as martyrdom but as suicide.

Mormonism does not seem to have a history of martyrdom.

 

[Pax_in_Veritate]

What is wrong with polygamy, the Mormons were simple restoring christianity

 

[coco2]

But when Christianity first started, they were not instructed to take numerous wives. On the contrary, Jesus told them to only have one wife, otherwise they commit adultery. I don’t understand how polygamy does not contradict the New Testament.

By the way, this is all very interesting and I am learning a lot. Thank you to all responders.

 

[KathleenGee]

There Roman officers who observed Christian gatherings. They reported back to their authorities and saw the people sharing bread, and making oaths of not to lie, steal, or commit adultery.

These same types of Christians did not follow the flesh and passions, but willingly would lay down their lives for Christ, as the new liberty they experienced in Christ within the enslaving power of Ancient Rome, was truly something or rather SomeOne to die for.

 

[zerinus]

But when Christianity first started, they were not instructed to take numerous wives. On the contrary, Jesus told them to only have one wife, otherwise they commit adultery.

There is no such instruction from Jesus in the New Testament. Polygamy was permitted under the Mosaic Law, and it would have been practiced by some of the Jews (as well as some Christians) at that time.

I don’t understand how polygamy does not contradict the New Testament.

It just doesn’t.