Mormans - nicest folks ever!

[kalt]

Thread Title: Mormans - nicest folks ever!

I didn’t push this point earlier, but since your 2cents wants to make light of the VAST amounts of charitable work the Catholic Church has done, as well as being on the dangerous frontline of the ABORTION issue…

The Catholic Church is a HOSPITAL for SINNERS.

Well so what if it is?

I’ll tell why “so what if it is”: The random Catholic that you meet could be a SAINT or a SINNER.

In fact the Catholic Church has many VILE and MEAN SINNERS.

So what, just kick those VILE and MEAN SINNERS out and then the people left would be KIND and DECENT .

If you think that the Catholic Church goes around kicking sinners out instead of keeping them around in the HOPE that someday they might REPENT and trying to help them recover without alienating them, then you don’t know what the Catholic Church is.

How many other religions kick undesireables out, so when you meet a representative from that religion, they are most likely KIND and DECENT?

I could be wrong here, so attack at will if you think so.

Mormons…Nicest Folks Ever!

This is hyperbole. When someone says that her new mother-in-law is the nicest person ever, she’s not saying that her own mother is less nice. She’s expressing appreciation and love for her new MIL’s kindness.

If I’m right, there’s no need to bring the big guns out.

 

[kalt]

Many Evangelical Protestant groups have Roman Catholics beat hands down when it comes to warm-hearted, open-handed hospitality towards strangers. (And yes, I know the LDS/Mormons are NOT technically Evangelicals nor Protestants). They greet one another easily, have one another to their homes frequently, and just generally strive to be likeable to one another.

The flip side of this is that it CAN be artificial, put-on, even hypocritical to some degree. And, even to the extent that it is genuine, it often leads to some measure of invasiveness and boundary-crossing. It often seems as though in some sects everyone feels they have the right to know everyone’s business, pass on advice about everyone’s business, and pass judgment on how everyone else conducts their own business.

Catholics since Vatican II (and many ‘mainline’ Protestestant denominations) recognized this ‘friendliness gap’ in how they do Church compared to some of the sectarian Protestant groups. Various tactics and strategies have been pursued to help break down some of the barriers which often kept fellow-Catholics from ever getting to know their own congregants. Some of these attempts–like the ‘Kiss of Peace’ which disrupts the Mass right at the most sacred point of the service–are tacky. Others, like the after-Mass coffee klatch, tend to just be shallow.

Having said that: the Catholic Church and historic Protestant churches really do have things going for them if one gauges ‘friendliness’ by more than a handshake and a smile: permanent hospitals, charities, and other institutions for those in need are a much more sure sign of friendship IMHO.

And it can be dangerous. Like the boy (another post) who died trying to break up a fight, the Smarts’ daughter was kidnapped by a drifter the wife hired after meeting him on the street (if the story is true).

Nice is one thing. But be smart about it.

 

[Stephen168]

Sorry for the stereotypes (even if it IS positive), but I have to say that Mormans are the nicest group of people I’ve met, as a whole.

I went to Boy Scouts at a Mormon Church for fours years. The only vandals I’ve personally known were Mormon and the only family I knew as a kid to suffer divorce were Mormon. So I think Mormons are no better or worse than anyone else. I believe sheep producers are the nicest folks ever!

 

[Stephen168]

Obviously Catholics produce better fruits overall, but a friendly reminder to increase those fruits isn’t bad.

I agree

 

[Marie5890]

But I have appreciated that you have been a-typical with your comments. I think you have presented a quite balanced perspective. Thanks.

Thank you, Parker. I have very fond memories during my LDS years. My years living in Provo where wonderful!

 

[Marie5890]

I am sorry if you have been hurt. It is people who choose to hurt who do the hurting, not a group as a whole. I have been deeply hurt by catholic people myself, but I do not blame the Catholic church for the mistakes of individual people. I find it incredibly sad that people blame entire groups for what individuals do. No matter what church you belong too, you still have the responsibility to act kindly to others. By the way, I have also been hurt by Mormons…but that does not make me dislike them (us) as a group

Annie

No Annie. I wasnt hurt. My leaving was very easy. I was referring to others that I am aware of.

Yes, I am aware that many have been hurt by the Catholic Church, both by individuals within it and by her as an institution…

Admittedly Im not fond of stereo-typing…nor white washing.

There are wonderful Catholics and wonderful Mormons and wonderful (add denom. affiliation here)…there are also not so nice, Catholics, Mormons, (add denom. affiliation here)…

and every color in between…

White washing and stereo-typing is some how "rose colored glasses) which is a false picture.

 

[Marie5890]

I went to Boy Scouts at a Mormon Church for fours years. The only vandals I’ve personally known were Mormon and the only family I knew as a kid to suffer divorce were Mormon. So I think Mormons are no better or worse than anyone else.

Now that is an accurate and “facing reality” observation.

No better. No worse.

Stay real!

 

[RebeccaJ]

Not everybody from every church (mormons and catholics included) believe EVERYTHING they are taught. Many do, but all don’t.

Annie

Never said they did. But, most of the LDS who come here certainly show that they do.

 

[KathleenGee]

They are put on here to correct any misunderstandings or misconceptions or show what they did believe or do is no more…

And they have their training and inserts to show where we are wrong…

As a Catholic, faith with reason works.

 

[SANxJONERO]

Could that really have been a KJV bible that Mormon gave me? From what I see on commercials they give those away. Or do they have their own books or versions of bibles they like to give too?

 

[Marie5890]

Could that really have been a KJV bible that Mormon gave me? From what I see on commercials they give those away. Or do they have their own books or versions of bibles they like to give too?

Mormons strictly use the KJV of the bible.

The version of the KJV that they publish has in it’s footnotes the “Joseph Smith translation”, however…But those are more just footnotes w/in the KJV and not an entire new translation in and of itself

 

[Kirk_O]

I remember 1 day I was sitting on a st. corner waiting for a friend & a Mormon came talking to me & seemed pretty polite. At 1st I thought maybe she was just being nosy or possibly thought I was a nuisence, but after awhile she just seemed worried for me & came off as a friend. She gave me a book & I showed it to my friend. He went to show his Dad & I guess he just wanted to make sure it was ok with his Dad that we were hanging out, so he came back to tell me it was ok. Well I wondered what happened with the book & they said they threw it away, because his Dad thought it was a specific religion’s book on false teachings or something.

Well I think it was the next day another friend asked me something like if I have JW friends & stuff like that, because of what my friend was saying had happened. I really didn’t see what the big deal was, but I said it was a religious lady that was friendly to me & she gave me a book. Well I guess they thought it was a JW, but I felt bad due to the fact it was a Mormon & she was so friendly to give me what I think was a hard back bible. I like my paperback NAB, but I didn’t have a bible back then & this could’ve very well been a hardback KJV that shouldn’t have been treated like that. I still to this day after so many years feel that it was so wrong how that happened & don’t even feel right saying those were my friends, because they were the type to spread rumors behind my back & had some of the dumbest senses of humor I’ve ever seen in my life.

I wouldn’t worry about the Bible your friends father threw away. I maybe wrong but I view the Bible as a book which can be used for good and evil. If the LDS has footnotes in it to warp your understanding of it, then that is not a true bible of our Lord. It would do you more harm then good.

 

[Marie5890]

Jerok,
Thanks for this thread and your comments.

Marie5890,
The idea that the DNA of perhaps 10,000 surviving “Lamanite” remnants after all the in-fighting and being taken over and had complete mixing of population remnants with other nations–with the millions of inhabitants who became the conquering nations within the Americas–would have genetic ancestral traits comparable to the DNA of modern-day Jews, is simply poor science.

.

I do take issue with the idea that mtDNA is “poor science” however. I wouldnt label it “poor science”…not by a long shot…Sorry

“The fact that mitochondrial DNA is maternally inherited enables researchers to trace maternal lineage far back in time. (Y chromosomal DNA, paternally inherited, is used in an analogous way to trace the agnate lineage.) This is accomplished in humans by sequencing one or more of the hypervariable control regions (HVR1 or HVR2) of the mitochondrial DNA. HVR1 consists of about 440 base pairs. These 440 base pairs are then compared to the control regions of other individuals (either specific people or subjects in a database) to determine maternal lineage. Most often, the comparison is made to the revised Cambridge Reference Sequence. Vilà et al. have published studies tracing the matrilineal descent of domestic dogs to wolves.[4] The concept of the Mitochondrial Eve is based on the same type of analysis, attempting to discover the origin of humanity by tracking the lineage back in time.”

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitochondrial_DNA

and that is putting it “simply”

 

[ParkerD]

I do take issue with the idea that mtDNA is “poor science” however. I wouldnt label it “poor science”…not by a long shot…Sorry

“The fact that mitochondrial DNA is maternally inherited enables researchers to trace maternal lineage far back in time. (Y chromosomal DNA, paternally inherited, is used in an analogous way to trace the agnate lineage.) This is accomplished in humans by sequencing one or more of the hypervariable control regions (HVR1 or HVR2) of the mitochondrial DNA. HVR1 consists of about 440 base pairs. These 440 base pairs are then compared to the control regions of other individuals (either specific people or subjects in a database) to determine maternal lineage. Most often, the comparison is made to the revised Cambridge Reference Sequence. Vilà et al. have published studies tracing the matrilineal descent of domestic dogs to wolves.[4] The concept of the Mitochondrial Eve is based on the same type of analysis, attempting to discover the origin of humanity by tracking the lineage back in time.”

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitochondrial_DNA

and that is putting it “simply”

Marie,
What I meant by “poor science” was that by comparing DNA of some Native Americans with the DNA of some Jews, the conclusion someone (if I understand the thinking process I have read about) has reached is that the DNA comparison matches more closely with an origin in the mountains of Russia, not with the Jews of the Middle East, and that is supposed to be meaningful in comparison with the Book of Mormon.

In the first place, “maternal lineage” would mean one is looking toward the mothers, and we know that Manasseh’s mother was a non-Israelite non-Jew, Asenath (Genesis 46:20). We have no idea of the ancestry or lineage of Sariah or of the wife of Ishmael. We also have no idea of the maternal ancestry of the Mulekites.

To start from the unknown maternal ancestry of 10,000 remnant Lamanites of 400 AD (whose maternal lineage out of the Old World we do not know other than a non-Israelite non-Jew) and assume inter-marriages with millions of those whose ancestors had come to the Americas from Beringuia or from elsewhere, and compare the resulting mtDNA with Middle Eastern Jews of today and draw any conclusions at all is what I think is poor science.

 

[why_me]

I went to Boy Scouts at a Mormon Church for fours years. The only vandals I’ve personally known were Mormon and the only family I knew as a kid to suffer divorce were Mormon. So I think Mormons are no better or worse than anyone else. I believe sheep producers are the nicest folks ever!

Since you have been known to post critical comments about the mormon church, I would never expect your experience to be anything but negative. However, I will need to treat your experience as suspect because you seem incapable of writing something positive about the lds church.

As with my experience, divorce was all around me as a kid. And since my town was a catholic majority with hardly a mormon family to be found, it was usually catholics heading for divorce.

 

[SteveVH]

I had an atheist couple who were some of the nicest folks I’ve ever met.

Unflortunately, Jesus didn’t come to teach us how to be nice people.

 

[RebeccaJ]

Marie,
What I meant by “poor science” was that by comparing DNA of some Native Americans with the DNA of some Jews, the conclusion someone (if I understand the thinking process I have read about) has reached is that the DNA comparison matches more closely with an origin in the mountains of Russia, not with the Jews of the Middle East, and that is supposed to be meaningful in comparison with the Book of Mormon.

In the first place, “maternal lineage” would mean one is looking toward the mothers, and we know that Manasseh’s mother was a non-Israelite non-Jew, Asenath (Genesis 46:20). We have no idea of the ancestry or lineage of Sariah or of the wife of Ishmael. We also have no idea of the maternal ancestry of the Mulekites.

To start from the unknown maternal ancestry of 10,000 remnant Lamanites of 400 AD (whose maternal lineage out of the Old World we do not know other than a non-Israelite non-Jew) and assume inter-marriages with millions of those whose ancestors had come to the Americas from Beringuia or from elsewhere, and compare the resulting mtDNA with Middle Eastern Jews of today and draw any conclusions at all is what I think is poor science.

So, ParkerD, are you denying that the Book of Mormon is about Jews who left Jerusalem and came to the Americas?

Also, your view is revisionist. A revision that came about because of DNA studies. Prior to this, the Mormon church taught the Lamanites were the principle ancestors of all Native Americans and Pacific Islanders. Your D&C confirms this, as Smith sends missionaries to the land of the Lamanites…do you think he was wrong?..maybe didn’t read the mind of the BoM prophets well enough?

 

[Stephen168]

I went to Boy Scouts at a Mormon Church for fours years. The only vandals I’ve personally known were Mormon and the only family I knew as a kid to suffer divorce were Mormon. So I think Mormons are no better or worse than anyone else.

I believe sheep producers are the nicest folks ever!
why me;6103552:

Since you have been known to post critical comments about the mormon church, I would never expect your experience to be anything but negative.

However, I will need to treat your experience as suspect because you seem incapable of writing something **positive **about the lds church.

My experience as a Boy Scouts was wonderful. I would not have stayed for 4 years if it wasn’t. But I never saw the Mormons as ‘nicer’ than the ‘folks’ in my CYO group at my Parish.

You are right, as I have said a few times here; I find nothing uniquely positive about the Mormon Church. In fact, I once asked you to provide me with something uniquely good about Mormonism and you never responded. You prefer to attack Catholics in some irrational attempt to attack the Catholic Church as follows:

As with my experience, divorce was all around me as a kid. And since my town was a catholic majority with hardly a mormon family to be found, it was usually catholics heading for divorce.

 

[ParkerD]

(1) So, ParkerD, are you denying that the Book of Mormon is about Jews who left Jerusalem and came to the Americas?

Also, your view is revisionist. A revision that came about because of DNA studies. Prior to this, the Mormon church taught the Lamanites were the principle ancestors of all Native Americans and Pacific Islanders. Your D&C confirms this, as Smith sends missionaries to the land of the Lamanites…do you think he was wrong?..maybe didn’t read the mind of the BoM prophets well enough?

Hi, RebeccaJ.
In answer to your question (1), the term “Jew” in the Book of Mormon is referring to any Israelites including by marriage, who either lived in the area around Jerusalem or migrated to somewhere else in the world after 600 BC (including north into Russia), so I am not “denying” that, but the descendants of Laman and Lemuel would have mtDNA matching Asenath, wife of Joseph, a non-Israelite other than by her marriage to Joseph.

Quite the contrary as to your second paragraph, some people may have believed that all Native Americans are descended from Lehi, but even as a youth I never had that belief personally, because in reading the Book of Mormon it was apparent from 2 Nephi 1 that other people were led to America besides Lehi’s group and Mulek’s group and the Jaredite group, and it was also apparent that the Lamanite remnants would be almost utterly destroyed by the nations that took over possession of what the Nephites and Lamanites had considered their “lands of inheritance.” That is apparent from 2 Nephi 1 and 4, from Lehi’s prophecies about his posterity when they abandoned their religious heritage and their belief in Christ. In the first place, the fighting described in Mormon and Moroni was only the beginning of a continuous war among them–not just Nephites against Lamanites, but Lamanites fighting among themselves and among whomever else they encountered. Their numbers would be decimated to the point that Lehi had only the promise that they would not be “utterly destroyed”. That implies they would be nearly “utterly destroyed.”

The Lamanite remnants were clearly nomadic and migratory people, and didn’t stay together as one group. There is an “X” haplotype (which may originate from the Middle East based on current studies) which show up in Native populations near the Great Lakes and also in New Mexico and other places. But I think it is unreasonable to think that the Lamanite remnants stayed in one place based on how they lived during Book of Mormon times, and their migratory patterns could have taken them anywhere on both continents and be logical.

 

[RebeccaJ]

Hi, RebeccaJ.
In answer to your question (1), the term “Jew” in the Book of Mormon is referring to any Israelites including by marriage, who either lived in the area around Jerusalem or migrated to somewhere else in the world after 600 BC (including north into Russia), so I am not “denying” that, but the descendants of Laman and Lemuel would have mtDNA matching Asenath, wife of Joseph, a non-Israelite other than by her marriage to Joseph.

Quite the contrary as to your second paragraph, some people may have believed that all Native Americans are descended from Lehi, but even as a youth I never had that belief personally, because in reading the Book of Mormon it was apparent from 2 Nephi 1 that other people were led to America besides Lehi’s group and Mulek’s group and the Jaredite group, and it was also apparent that the Lamanite remnants would be almost utterly destroyed by the nations that took over possession of what the Nephites and Lamanites had considered their “lands of inheritance.” That is apparent from 2 Nephi 1 and 4, from Lehi’s prophecies about his posterity when they abandoned their religious heritage and their belief in Christ. In the first place, the fighting described in Mormon and Moroni was only the beginning of a continuous war among them–not just Nephites against Lamanites, but Lamanites fighting among themselves and among whomever else they encountered. Their numbers would be decimated to the point that Lehi had only the promise that they would not be “utterly destroyed”. That implies they would be nearly “utterly destroyed.”

The Lamanite remnants were clearly nomadic and migratory people, and didn’t stay together as one group. There is an “X” haplotype (which may originate from the Middle East based on current studies) which show up in Native populations near the Great Lakes and also in New Mexico and other places. But I think it is unreasonable to think that the Lamanite remnants stayed in one place based on how they lived during Book of Mormon times, and their migratory patterns could have taken them anywhere on both continents and be logical.

Are you 12? Just kidding.

I think ParkerD, you have made up something that enables you to “keep it together”. It is, of course, all nonsense to me. To begin with, the case can be made that ancient Judaism was matriarical…ie, if your mom was Jewish, so were you.

Essentially, you have made the BoM nothing but an adoption, which, is something that as far as I remember was never taught.

I think it supports my case that you’ve made your own religion…a very mormon thing to do.