Mormon and Catholic resources?

[jane_doe]

Perhaps I can ask questions,

I read that Mormons believe that the ultimate level of heaven, you get to make future souls with a spouse? So is this the soul or is the person in flesh? Isn’t this contradictory to God being the only God ? He makes things, not us who were made by him? We do not possess the ability to make things equally complex as ourselves, right?

For Catholics, our spirit goes to heaven, but I heard it can be isolated, not family-like? What is the nature of the spirit in heaven?

An official Mormon source on becoming like god: lds.org/topics/becoming-like-god?lang=eng

As to general Mormon thinking: Mormons do not view God creating us like a scientist inventing a robot (i.e., a preprogramed thing which will never truly become like it’s maker). Rather, Mormons view human creation like a father with a child: the child is a living organic thing, capable of freewill, growth, and potentially becoming like it’s father. Note: I never said replacing the father or somehow outgrowing their father (that’s just silly).

 

[Marie5890]

Why don’t you just ask the family what they believe? If you ask “Mike” what “Steve” believes it seems much more likely that you’ll get misinformed than just asking “Steve” himself.

You don’t have to feel uneducated when talking to someone. After all, Christ didn’t choose “knowledgeable” Pharisees as His apostles.

I really like your quote: “Education is essential, but understanding is the key”

Hello Jane_Doe and welcome!

I get the sense that LittleHalo is well aware that several of us are former Mormons, so she doesn’t need to ask “Steve” what he believes exclusively. Not all of us are “Mike’s” She can ask “Steve’s” former neighbors, who also once believed what “Steve” believes now.

God’s Blessings

 

[jane_doe]

Hello Jane_Doe and welcome!

I get the sense that LittleHalo is well aware that several of us are former Mormons, so she doesn’t need to ask “Steve” what he believes exclusively. Not all of us are “Mike’s” She can ask “Steve’s” former neighbors, who also once believed what “Steve” believes now.

God’s Blessings

Thank you for the welcome .

With all due respect, I politely disagree with your argument: a primary source is always better than a secondary one.

For instance, I feel that asking a random ex-Catholic what Marie believes would be a poor choice. The best source for finding out what Marie believes is asking Marie herself. Primary sources are always best.

 

[Marie5890]

Thank you for the welcome .

With all due respect, I politely disagree with your argument: a primary source is always better than a secondary one.

For instance, I feel that asking a random ex-Catholic what Marie believes would be a poor choice. The best source for finding out what Marie believes is asking Marie herself. Primary sources are always best.

But that does not mean a secondary source is inaccurate. A secondary source can be just as accurate.

Again, we are not all “Mike’s” here. Several of us (me, LW, Rebecca, TexanKnight, iperious and a few others) used to be “Steve’s” neighbors. We went to church with “Steve”. We sat in the same pews, went to the same Sunday School classes, same Elder quorums, Relief Society, listen to General Conference, read the Ensigns, read our BoMs, PoGP, went to the temple etc etc.

Sure, having LittleHalo as her friends what they believe certainly has great value. But that doesnt preclude others from knowing what her friends believe.

 

[Marie5890]

Thank you for the welcome .

With all due respect, I politely disagree with your argument: a primary source is always better than a secondary one.

For instance, I feel that asking a random ex-Catholic what Marie believes would be a poor choice. The best source for finding out what Marie believes is asking Marie herself. Primary sources are always best.

I have no problem with the idea of someone asking an well-Catechized ex-Catholic what I believe.

A well catechized one would know. Even if they have left the faith.

 

[jane_doe]

But that does not mean a secondary source is inaccurate. A secondary source can be just as accurate.

Again, we are not all “Mike’s” here. Several of us (me, LW, Rebecca, TexanKnight, iperious and a few others) used to be “Steve’s” neighbors. We went to church with “Steve”. We sat in the same pews, went to the same Sunday School classes, same Elder quorums, Relief Society, listen to General Conference, read the Ensigns, read our BoMs, PoGP, went to the temple etc etc.

Sure, having LittleHalo as her friends what they believe certainly has great value. But that doesnt preclude others from knowing what her friends believe.

So to best learn about Catholic beliefs I should ask an ex-member of your perish?

I don’t mean to be arguementive, but such an idea seems silly to me. It denies the individuality of a person’s beliefs.

 

[Marie5890]

So to best learn about Catholic beliefs I should ask an ex-member of your perish?

I don’t mean to be arguementive, but such an idea seems silly to me.

A well catechized one? Sure, why not. If they have personal integrity they can be just as honest as I can about what Catholics believe.

I have a family member who is an atheist, and can very well articulate what I believe, easily.

He is a man of honor and integrity. It wouldn’t be silly at all to ask him.

 

[Marie5890]

It denies the individuality of a person’s beliefs.

My apologizes. I didnt realize you were speaking of a more relativistic approach to beliefs.

My answers were to what Mormons and Catholics believe and are taught.

Not the whole of what Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI referred to as the “dictates of relativism”

I guess it’s very plausible that Mormons are now becoming more relativistic.

I got the sense the LittleHalo was asking about what “Mormons” believe vs what “Catholics” believe

 

[LittleHalo]

:idea:
I was under the impression that other religions also use this forum, as the radio show Catholic Answers Live (one of my faves) has a large denominational-diversity of listeners. I was also under the impression that there are people in the Mormon faith that specialize in understanding other religions (if im wrong correct me). I would assume that this would be a great resource for them to tap into. and I did see some forum categories that involved other denominations, which gave me the incentive to initiate this thread knowing that it would not be a pool of 100% Catholics.

I didnt even take ex-____faith into consideration I was hoping there were people out there that might enjoy learning what others believe, and might know some good sources.

It can be a touchy subject, but I thank everyone for coming forward with what you had to offer.

going straight to the source would be ideal, and I have been offered a meeting with one of these ‘educated of the faith’ people, but I am not there yet in bravery or comfort. Im at the hide-behind-the-forum-level still

 

[Marie5890]

Feel free anytime, Little Halo…

What may also be of help as you seek to educate yourself is the function that exists to go back and read the posts people have made or threads they have started.

Those of us who are former Mormons that you can do a search on to see what we have shared are the following… (Click on our names and that will bring you to our profile page, from there you can click on links like “posts this member has made” or “threads this member has started”)

Marie5890 (me)

LivingWaters7
TexanKnight
RebeccaJ
Iepuras

(those are the ones that come to my mind right off the top of my head. I believe LW7 served a mission, I know TexanKnight did. Rebecca lives in UT, I forget details of Iepuras at the moment, but I know she is one as well. LW7 is very very articulate and can explain Mormonism vs Catholicism very well. TexanKnight tends to far more blunt and bold as he sugar coats nothing. Keep up with educating yourself, thru books, what others share etc etc. Please dont be afraid to ask. )

God’s blessings

 

[zaffiroborant]

Zaff, I will PM the link. I’m not sure the mods would let it stay public.

(edited to add)

Link sent, Zaff.

Thanks

 

[zaffiroborant]

An official Mormon source on becoming like god: lds.org/topics/becoming-like-god?lang=eng

As to general Mormon thinking: Mormons do not view God creating us like a scientist inventing a robot (i.e., a preprogramed thing which will never truly become like it’s maker). Rather, Mormons view human creation like a father with a child: the child is a living organic thing, capable of freewill, growth, and potentially becoming like it’s father. Note: I never said replacing the father or somehow outgrowing their father (that’s just silly).

But you did imply that Catholics (and other Christians) believe God created human beings like robots, incapable of freewill without potential to be like God.

 

[RebeccaJ]

An official Mormon source on becoming like god: lds.org/topics/becoming-like-god?lang=eng

As to general Mormon thinking: Mormons do not view God creating us like a scientist inventing a robot (i.e., a preprogramed thing which will never truly become like it’s maker). Rather, Mormons view human creation like a father with a child: the child is a living organic thing, capable of freewill, growth, and potentially becoming like it’s father. Note: I never said replacing the father or somehow outgrowing their father (that’s just silly).

Hello. Are you implying that Catholics believe we are created by God as preprogrammed robots?

 

[RebeccaJ]

But you did imply that Catholics (and other Christians) believe God created human beings like robots, incapable of freewill without potential to be like God.

Jinx!

 

[zaffiroborant]

Jinx!

 

[jane_doe]

:idea:
… I was also under the impression that there are people in the Mormon faith that specialize in understanding other religions (if im wrong correct me)…

Your statement in incorrect.

You see, Mormons have no* paid clergy: all leaders are members of their local congregation whom serve a volunteer lay minister for a few years, before rotating to a different position. Everybody has a day job. For example, my bishop growing up was a mortician by profession, and after being bishop for a few years, he then taught the 5 year olds. Such a system creates many opportunities for everyone in the congregation to serve and grow. Mormonism emphasizes each individual praying to God themself, reading the scriptures themselves, teaching their fellows, and contributing to the community.

What such a lay-run system does not really create are a bunch of people who speak Greek or write university-style theological discourses. If you talk to a Mormon pastor, he doesn’t have a theological degree. Mormon missionaries are 19 yr old boys, and focus their time teaching people how to pray, not reciting church history.

Mormonism has no interest in debating (I use the term debating to mean like in a debate team: where you have an opening statement, arguments, defense, etc.). Mormon way of studying doctrine is more “let’s talk to together” rather than taking sides.

Mormons don’t really spend time dissecting other religions-- such is deemed to be disrespectful, and a side track from the gospel. That’s not to say that some individuals don’t, but that’s just those individuals in no official church capacity. So year, you’re unlikely to find any Mormon-written official comparison chart of any other religion, including Catholicism.

• Technicality disclaimer: there no paid clergy at the local level (>99.99% of leaders). In Salt Lake there are <500 worldwide church leaders who get paid because you can’t hold a day job while traveling 6 continents. Some of these leaders do write books, but most of their time is spent pastoring and emphasizing basic principles.

*Other technicality disclaimer: Yes, BYU does have a religion department and those professors do write thesis’ and books, and they do get paid. But they are professors and not church authorities.

 

[LittleHalo]

But you did imply that Catholics (and other Christians) believe God created human beings like robots, incapable of freewill without potential to be like God.

She never said without free will, I got from Jane doe that it was simply an example of something we create that can move on its own without our physical manipulation ( like Pinocchio would need ) the only difference is Pinocchio becomes a real boy…

Wait so that Disney movie is an example of Mormonism? He becomes something he is not in the end? He becomes like his maker?

And Catholics believe that we are human and strive to be like God and be with God… but in the end we will never BE the same stuff as God, we will always be human in nature, even In spiritual form?

Is that what you were trying to say in a nutshell ?

---

Wow ok, very in depth reply above, thank you for your time

 

[jane_doe]

But you did imply that Catholics (and other Christians) believe God created human beings like robots, incapable of freewill without potential to be like God.

I did not mean that in anyway and sorry if my analogy was poor and gave that impression. I just meant to say that Mormonism stresses the Father-child relationship of God.

 

[jane_doe]

She never said without free will, I got from Jane doe that it was simply an example of something we create that can move on its own without our physical manipulation ( like Pinocchio would need ) the only difference is Pinocchio becomes a real boy…

Wait so that Disney movie is an example of Mormonism? He becomes something he is not in the end? He becomes like his maker?

And Catholics believe that we are human and strive to be like God and be with God… but in the end we will never BE the** same stuff** as God, we will always be human in nature, even In spiritual form?

Is that what you were trying to say in a nutshell ?

---

Wow ok, very in depth reply above, thank you for your time

In Mormonism, what makes God is not His substance, but rather His perfection. This alters thinking dramatically.

Didn’t mean to overkill the above response… I just got carried away.

 

[RebeccaJ]

Your statement in incorrect.

You see, Mormons have no* paid clergy: all leaders are members of their local congregation whom serve a volunteer lay minister for a few years, before rotating to a different position. Everybody has a day job. For example, my bishop growing up was a mortician by profession, and after being bishop for a few years, he then taught the 5 year olds. Such a system creates many opportunities for everyone in the congregation to serve and grow. Mormonism emphasizes each individual praying to God themself, reading the scriptures themselves, teaching their fellows, and contributing to the community.

What such a lay-run system does not really create are a bunch of people who speak Greek or write university-style theological discourses. If you talk to a Mormon pastor, he doesn’t have a theological degree. Mormon missionaries are 19 yr old boys, and focus their time teaching people how to pray, not reciting church history.

Mormonism has no interest in debating (I use the term debating to mean like in a debate team: where you have an opening statement, arguments, defense, etc.). Mormon way of studying doctrine is more “let’s talk to together” rather than taking sides.

Mormons don’t really spend time dissecting other religions-- such is deemed to be disrespectful, and a side track from the gospel. That’s not to say that some individuals don’t, but that’s just those individuals in no official church capacity. So year, you’re unlikely to find any Mormon-written official comparison chart of any other religion, including Catholicism.

• Technicality disclaimer: there no paid clergy at the local level (>99.99% of leaders). In Salt Lake there are <500 worldwide church leaders who get paid because you can’t hold a day job while traveling 6 continents. Some of these leaders do write books, but most of their time is spent pastoring and emphasizing basic principles.

*Other technicality disclaimer: Yes, BYU does have a religion department and those professors do write thesis’ and books, and they do get paid. But they are professors and not church authorities.

Someone should let Jeffrey Holland know that dissecting and attacking the beliefs of Christians is not what LDS do.

lds.org/general-conference/2007/10/the-only-true-god-and-jesus-christ-whom-he-hath-sent?lang=eng