Mormon and Catholics bridges

[bitterhope]

These are commonalities? Pope has no more special connection to God than I do. I need to obey who above me?

Yes, male heirarchy, so I get that.
What do Mormon temples have in common with Catholics?

You can speak infallibly on teachings of faith and morals and the Holy Spirit makes sure of that? That’s a much more special connection to God than I or your average Catholic has. Don’t we as Catholics need to obey our pastors and the pope, or at least aren’t we called towards obedience? Never been LDS but I’m pretty sure their prophet takes a similar role in leading their church as the pope does ours. No, I don’t think the prophet is protected by the Holy Spirit when he speaks on faith and morals but maybe they don’t think out pope is either.

 

[Marie5890]

You can speak infallibly on teachings of faith and morals and the Holy Spirit makes sure of that? That’s a much more special connection to God than I or your average Catholic has. Don’t we as Catholics need to obey our pastors and the pope, or at least aren’t we called towards obedience? Never been LDS but I’m pretty sure their prophet takes a similar role in leading their church as the pope does ours. No, I don’t think the prophet is protected by the Holy Spirit when he speaks on faith and morals but maybe they don’t think out pope is either.

I dont see the dogma of infallibility as meaning the pope has a more special connection to God than me. Where does that come from?

We are called to obedience to the Gospel for sure. And you might be right that, in a canonical sense, we are to obey our bishops. Dont think that holds true for pastors, though.

Having been both LDS and Catholic, I would disagree with your assessment that the role of vicar of Christ is the same as the LDS prophet. Vicar of Christ isnt sustained as a prophet seer and revelator, nor is he held up as such. The Vicar of Christ doesn’t claim to be receiving revelation for the entire Church. Nor can he change any doctrine of the Church. LDS prophets can.

Pastorally speaking, the LDS and Catholic churches are not nearly as common as you are thinking they are.
Catholic pastors dont go and interview their people the way LDS bishops do. They dont interview their youth and ask them about masterbation. They don’t pull in their people at the end of every year for tithing settlement to see if one is “worthy” based on how much money they have donated.

Look at the details and you will find two very different approaches to pastoral care.

 

[zaffiroborant]

I suggest you read up on how the Mormon faith began and why it was founded. And the circumstances surrounding it.
Your eyes will be opened.
He’s speaking the truth.
Peace.

Then follow that up with reading The Great Apostasy by Talmage, who was a member of the highest leadership of the LDS church. After you finish see if you can find as vicious a tome from the highest leadership of the Catholic church.

 

[zaffiroborant]

For those of us that live in Utah, many have had very negative experiences with Mormons.

When I lived elsewhere, I had Mormon friends.

Until you have experienced it, you just wouldn’t understand.

You don’t have to have lived in Utah to have negative experiences with Mormons, I’ve had 2 negative experiences in the midwest and 2 members of my families had experiences with Mormons proselytizing their children that wen waaayy beyond the pale, also in the midwest.

 

[zaffiroborant]

For those of us that live in Utah, many have had very negative experiences with Mormons.

When I lived elsewhere, I had Mormon friends.

Until you have experienced it, you just wouldn’t understand.

You don’t have to have lived in Utah to have negative experiences with Mormons, I’ve had 2 negative experiences in the Midwest and 2 members of my families had experiences with Mormons proselytizing their children that wen waaayy beyond the pale, also in the Midwest.

Personally I’ve had far more negative experiences with NonDenom/Evangelical/Fundamentalist sects than I’ve had with Mormons.

 

[RebeccaJ]

I have several friends who are Mormon and I delight that some of them don’t mind talking and discussing religion, in a society that sees religious discussion as taboo. I like to uncover similarities and differences, but I notice that some times our religions are so harsh of the other, when I look for resources on line to learn more it’s so defensive (both religions). Reading articles that pull all of the negative aspects just makes it appear like each side is attacking the other religion. There is little taste or respect given, unlike the kind discussions among friends I have experienced. Why is this so? Why do most of the resources I read so negative? I feel this tears down any bridges to build between individuals to better understand one another. I feel like there are little resources to bring us together, and a stigma is laid before people are given a chance. I feel like when when I say I’m Catholic, many people say oh, with a look of disappointment(from any religion). Are there resources that bring us together? Why is there such a terrible gap?

Here in Utah, it’s a mixed bag. We have BYU grads who play music at Mass. Mormon chorales performing in our Cathedral. But Good Friday? Just another day to Momons. Lent? Half or more of the people in Utah don’t know that Lent exists. Mormons are also taught falsehoods about the Catholic faith, that are really hard to take without a corrective rebuttal.

There really are very few points of commonality, and they’re even less common when the details are delved into. Marriage, kind of common, but Mormons view polygamy as acceptable. Abortion, Mormons are against it, most of the time. But they have a pragmatic morality, and so, what is inherently evil can be made good, in their teachings, by circumstance.

But, I agree that it is possible to acknowledge what is common, and stay focused there for the sake of friendship. It is in fact, the only way to maintain familial ties and friendships with individual Mormons. You just have to ignore a whole lot and keep clear of most religious topics.

 

[jane_doe]

I have several friends who are Mormon and I delight that some of them don’t mind talking and discussing religion, in a society that sees religious discussion as taboo. I like to uncover similarities and differences, but I notice that some times our religions are so harsh of the other, when I look for resources on line to learn more it’s so defensive (both religions). Reading articles that pull all of the negative aspects just makes it appear like each side is attacking the other religion. There is little taste or respect given, unlike the kind discussions among friends I have experienced. Why is this so? Why do most of the resources I read so negative? I feel this tears down any bridges to build between individuals to better understand one another. I feel like there are little resources to bring us together, and a stigma is laid before people are given a chance. I feel like when when I say I’m Catholic, many people say oh, with a look of disappointment(from any religion). Are there resources that bring us together? Why is there such a terrible gap?

Halo,

I applaud your efforts to reach out to your friends and talk about God in a world whom would rather ban Him from discussion. I would suggest that the best way to get to know your friends better and build bridges, is not found on-line, but by talking to your friends. Ask them what they believe, share what you believe, and see the Goodness.

Blessed journey!
-Jane

 

[Horton]

Pastoral. You both believe in your religious hierarchy. Catholics need a priest to do certain religious stuff. You need to attend church in order not to commit a mortal sin. Both the pope and prophet have a special connection to God. Mormons need to be married in the temple. They need to obey those above them.

Having been both LDS and Catholic, I would disagree with your assessment that the role of vicar of Christ is the same as the LDS prophet. Vicar of Christ isnt sustained as a prophet seer and revelator, nor is he held up as such. The Vicar of Christ doesn’t claim to be receiving revelation for the entire Church. Nor can he change any doctrine of the Church. LDS prophets can.

Pastorally speaking, the LDS and Catholic churches are not nearly as common as you are thinking they are.
Catholic pastors dont go and interview their people the way LDS bishops do. They dont interview their youth and ask them about masterbation. They don’t pull in their people at the end of every year for tithing settlement to see if one is “worthy” based on how much money they have donated.

Look at the details and you will find two very different approaches to pastoral care.

I would add regarding the pastoral issue a huge difference. Priests are educated not only with university degrees but with extensive seminary education. Years of education prior to ordination. Part of this education is how to give pastoral care to individuals, parishes, and communities.

The LDS have laity as “pastors”. They just pick someone from the congregation to be in whatever position happens to be open. Sometimes these men have university educations and sometimes not. But they do not have the extensive religious education of priests.

For parish priests, their full time (and more) job is to be a parish priest. The bishop of an LDS ward has a full time job and is bishop on the side.

So again not too many commonalities as it would appear at first glance.

 

[superwimp]

hello Marie,

What commonalities do you see that exists between Mormons and Catholics that have the potential of building bridges? Do you see theological possibilities? Social? Pastoral? <<<

You asked for commonalities. The below examples are more enhanced for mormons then Catholics yet they are commonalities.

What do Mormon temples have in common with Catholics? <<<

Both groups teach that the afterlife is dependent on your involvement with the church. Mormons need to go through temple ceremonies to obtain the highest level of heaven. Catholics need to attend confession and take part in various sacraments.

 

[bitterhope]

I dont see the dogma of infallibility as meaning the pope has a more special connection to God than me. Where does that come from?

We are called to obedience to the Gospel for sure. And you might be right that, in a canonical sense, we are to obey our bishops. Dont think that holds true for pastors, though.

Having been both LDS and Catholic, I would disagree with your assessment that the role of vicar of Christ is the same as the LDS prophet. Vicar of Christ isnt sustained as a prophet seer and revelator, nor is he held up as such. The Vicar of Christ doesn’t claim to be receiving revelation for the entire Church. Nor can he change any doctrine of the Church. LDS prophets can.

Pastorally speaking, the LDS and Catholic churches are not nearly as common as you are thinking they are.
Catholic pastors dont go and interview their people the way LDS bishops do. They dont interview their youth and ask them about masterbation. They don’t pull in their people at the end of every year for tithing settlement to see if one is “worthy” based on how much money they have donated.

Look at the details and you will find two very different approaches to pastoral care.

There have been priests that have interviewed youth they way you describe. I know because when I was preparing for confirmation it happened to me. When asking around years later I was told by several, including one of my sons, their experience was the same as mine. Whether or not it is supposed to happen, it does. Many if us have had horrible experience with this in the confessional as well. I’ve had priests in several states and one internationally spend their homilies on tithing and informing parishioners that if they don’t start to contribute more money that their children’s tuition will be increased. My kids don’t go to Catholic school but just last Sunday was told by my pastor that my family should be ashamed that we aren’t contributing more financially. He then detailed for my husband and I how much he gives of his salary back to our parish, the diocesan appeal, and other various charities. He apparently isn’t buying food for a family of 10 and sending monthly payments to two sets of elderly parents but I welcomed him to come balance my budget and find an increased contribution somehow. Father if course didn’t take me up on my offer. And I don’t know about anyone else but from what I read here at CAF and people I’ve known throughout life, the Holy Spirit is not working to safeguard my words or anyone else’s. So if He is doing that for the pope then yes, it is a more special relationship than we have with God. The Holy Spirit is the third person of the Blessed Trinity and therefore God. The pope cannot speak infallibly without the Holy Spirit. I’ve never been LDS nor do I have any desire to be. No the religious doctrines are not very similar but the fact that traditional family is very important to both, pastors are imperfect in both, children are valued in both and education tends to be highly valued in both are starting points. The fact that different members of both religions have very different experiences is another. The fact that both religions have several members that don’t truly know or understand their faith and what it teaches is another. The fact that both religions, if practiced the way they are intended, extends to all/most aspects of their lives and into their family traditions, way of life, culture, etc is yet another.

 

[bitterhope]

Halo,

I applaud your efforts to reach out to your friends and talk about God in a world whom would rather ban Him from discussion. I would suggest that the best way to get to know your friends better and build bridges, is not found on-line, but by talking to your friends. Ask them what they believe, share what you believe, and see the Goodness.

Blessed journey!
-Jane

You are very wise.

 

[Jerusha]

There have been priests that have interviewed youth they way you describe. I know because when I was preparing for confirmation it happened to me…The fact that both religions have several members that don’t truly know or understand their faith and what it teaches is another. The fact that both religions, if practiced the way they are intended, extends to all/most aspects of their lives and into their family traditions, way of life, culture, etc is yet another.

If those abuses really happened, I would sincerely suggest that you send a letter to the bishop, detailing the dates and circumstances. If you want, CC it to the USCCB. I am sure it will be taken care of.

If you were LDS, you would be reprimanded or possibly excommunicated for complaining.

 

[Graceful_Lamb]

I have several friends who are Mormon and I delight that some of them don’t mind talking and discussing religion, in a society that sees religious discussion as taboo. I like to uncover similarities and differences, but I notice that some times our religions are so harsh of the other, when I look for resources on line to learn more it’s so defensive (both religions). Reading articles that pull all of the negative aspects just makes it appear like each side is attacking the other religion. There is little taste or respect given, unlike the kind discussions among friends I have experienced. Why is this so? Why do most of the resources I read so negative? I feel this tears down any bridges to build between individuals to better understand one another. I feel like there are little resources to bring us together, and a stigma is laid before people are given a chance. I feel like when when I say I’m Catholic, many people say oh, with a look of disappointment(from any religion). Are there resources that bring us together? Why is there such a terrible gap?

I agree. I don’t agree with Mormonism at all. However, I think that we can try to find the good in others and their religions. Just because it doesn’t fit with what one may necessarily believe doesn’t mean that people can’t try to bridge the gap.

I think that there are some people who don’t want to bridge the gap. They are happy with the status quo.

 

[bitterhope]

If those abuses really happened, I would sincerely suggest that you send a letter to the bishop, detailing the dates and circumstances. If you want, CC it to the USCCB. I am sure it will be taken care of.

If you were LDS, you would be reprimanded or possibly excommunicated for complaining.

Yes they really happened. It’s frustrating when it’s always assumed people are lying when they go through stuff like this. Current bishop has been notified by several people. Nothing has happened and these things continue to occur. It’s not a one time thing and no, I do not see it changing. I’m moving in a couple months so maybe it will be better in our new area. Concerning the priest from when I was being confirmed, that priest is no longer around. He had an issue concerning minors in Colombia during the 1970’s and '80’s. Maybe you’re right about the LDS. Like I said I’ve never been nor plan to ever be LDS. Thing is though, lots of Catholics leave or made to feel like they aren’t accepted or respected too. Yet if we decide we no longer WANT to be Catholic we can’t just say we aren’t Catholic any more. There are no former Catholics like there are other religions. We are told that walking away or excommunication sends us straight to Hell. Maybe that’s similar to other churches too, I don’t know.

 

[Starwarsfan2]

I agree. I don’t agree with Mormonism at all. However, I think that we can try to find the good in others and their religions. Just because it doesn’t fit with what one may necessarily believe doesn’t mean that people can’t try to bridge the gap.

I think that there are some people who don’t want to bridge the gap. They are happy with the status quo.

Neo orthodox Mormonism try’s to bridge the gap , but it’s still heretical.

 

[Marie5890]

I agree. I don’t agree with Mormonism at all. However, I think that we can try to find the good in others and their religions. Just because it doesn’t fit with what one may necessarily believe doesn’t mean that people can’t try to bridge the gap.

I think that there are some people who don’t want to bridge the gap. They are happy with the status quo.

I guess my next thought would be, can and are Mormons willing to build those bridges without proselytizing?
So often for Mormons, people who are not LDS are seen and treated as potential converts. With that kind of approach, it’s hard to build sincere bridges that can fill that gap.

Wasnt just a few years ago they increased their missionary force to over 80,000. And for them, their goal is more often than not, to get converts and baptize

Perhaps that mind set needs to be re-arranged before anything.

 

[jane_doe]

I guess my next thought would be, can and are Mormons willing to build those bridges without proselytizing?
.

*Jane jumps up and down, waving her hand shouting “ME!!!” *

 

[Marie5890]

*Jane jumps up and down, waving her hand shouting “ME!!!” *

YAY JANE!!! :thumbsup:

(With that said, condolences to the LDS people. Heard about the passing of RG Scott)

 

[jane_doe]

(With that said, condolences to the LDS people. Heard about the passing of RG Scott)

Thanks. I actually met and chatted personal with RG Scott, so it is a bit of a sad day.

 

[Marie5890]

Thanks. I actually met and chatted personal with RG Scott, so it is a bit of a sad day.

Had he been ill? I know a couple of others have passed so you guys will be getting a few new members of the 12 in a couple of weeks.

So many of those who were in the 12 when I was LDS have since passed, or are very aged now. I dont think many are left that I can recall.