Mormon "Apostasy & Restoration"

[KathleenGee]

Finally, Dianaid,

To go over and over and over

without recognizing the hurt

those materials and your church’s judgment on Christianity and Christians have wrought,

should give you some more reflections.

I pray God’s blessings on you and your loved ones.

 

[ParkerD]

Finally, Dianaid,

To go over and over and over

without recognizing the hurt

those materials and your church’s judgment on Christianity and Christians have wrought,

should give you some more reflections.

I pray God’s blessings on you and your loved ones.

KathleenGee,
It seems you have been offended by the use of a word that is used often in the Bible–in the Old Testament (see Hosea, for example), and in the New Testament (see the Book of Revelation). A marriage covenant is intended to be eternal. The Jews were intended to have made an eternally binding covenant like a “marriage covenant” with their true King, the Holy One of Israel, the true Messiah. Instead, they went “a whoring” after other beliefs, and did not keep their covenant with their true God.

John, in the Book of Revelation, uses a similar idiom to exemplify the same message–that the world goes “a whoring” after the selfish desires and worldly purposes of “Babylon”, which is anything that has replaced the new eternal covenant of the pure gospel taught by Christ with something different–something that stands in the way of Christ really being able to change the inner soul of a person as He promised and promises to do, if they make a binding eternal covenant with Him.

I hope you will re-read Biblical passages that will help you understand how that word was used and why it was used by the ancient prophets (inspired by God) to try and strongly get the attention of those who were intended to be God’s covenant people. Note that as Hosea says, God has promised that the descendants of Israel will be reconciled and will become God’s covenant people once again, and though they turned their backs on Him by rejecting His pure and life-giving message, He never turned His back on them and will bring again Zion and give them new life.

 

[catholic-rcia]

Now that IS a strawman. “In Essence” I am saying no such thing. In fact, I’m saying that they DID hand on all Jesus taught them and all Jesus gave them–including the priesthood. However, where does it say anywhere in the bible or anyplace else that Jesus was done talking?

The very fact that He DID appear to Paul is conclusive proof that He was not done talking to His apostles, or done calling them. It is proof that God continues to do things the way He has always done things.

But…just as the choices of the people have consequences…bad ones that cause rifts between God and His people (HOW many times did God make covenants with His chosen people only to have them break them?), so did the freely chosen actions of the people in the very early church cause such a break. Not all of them by any means, but certainly enough, and certainly sufficient to lose the priesthood.

The very fact that the idea of further public revelation that resulted in scripture was dismissed is indicative of this.

That is our claim.

Jesus gave us His Holy Spirit to guide us to truth, how can you say, we say that Jesus is done taking, that would be impossible for this Catholic as Jesus speaks to me daily, through His Holy Spirit given to the Church at Pentecost, given to me at my Baptism into Christ. This will not be understood by the LDS because they refuse to believe in the Most Holy Trinity. In essence that would be God. They do not have the revelation regarding the One Body of Christ. When one part suffers we all suffer, when one feels joy we all feel joy. They do not understand the Sacrament of Confession which is in direct conflict with the type of Apostasy they maintain.

God is a forgiving God, Catholics are a forgiving people. The Great Apostasy makes no sense whatsoever. Again Jesus is our Savior through the forgiveness of our sins; He would not leave His own Body for centuries. The Mormon faith is a house built upon Pride; it carries with it a sense of worthiness. Yet we know that not one is worthy accept for worthiness itself “God” and yes that would be Christ to all of the Christians I know and have come to love. .

If they ask for scriptures on Jesus being the 100% fulfillment and you give them they will argue it telling us He is not enough that we need more revelations. Well we know what your revelations are and we reject them for the love of Jesus. We no the story in the dessert and the example set for us. We understand the prodigal son, sin, forgiveness, all of those things necessary to face this life with a humble heart. Although we are sinners we trust in Jesus, we rely on His goodness not ours. Progression for all Christians is simply returning to God just as the prodigal son returned to his father. Being with God, our very life is our goal. All progression stops in Him and life begins just as it was before Satan offered up this mess that we have chosen and yet fight against through the Sacraments that are of Christ. You have taken what was offered by satan and made it into a good thing and you are innocent to it I hope. We will never be a god, nor do we strive for perfection, what we do is surrender ourselves to Him, into a personal relationship with Him, with the Holy Trinity and we allow Him to help us up. To carry us home. The opposite of pride. Can you not see pride in just about everyone of your (LDS) postings here? I am not saying we don’t have it as well, we have confession. The Apostasy set forth to over a Billion Jesus loving Christians, whose life for sinners and saints depends. Spend a day at the Saints and angels page here, it will help. Study pride and what it does and what it means. Study the core of the Catholic Church keeping in mind the Sacrament of confession.

Here we are in Utah
utahmission.com/pages/Mass_Explained.html

 

[RebeccaJ]

ParkerD: we all know mormon “scripture” is plagiarized from the Bible. Passages pulled out, woven in with a myriad of other ideas and sources, all with the intent to lead people away from the truth.

 

[Anna_Scott]

Kathleen,

I am so sorry that posting quotes from Mormon Apostles brought such grief upon you.

My goodness, people. The issue is truth. Nothing else.

Is there no other way for Mormon forum members to defend your church, other than attacking those who call attention to the words of your prophets and apostles?

These very prophets and apostles claim to have received their believes from God. So their beliefs cannot be justified by the time in which they lived, or the prevailing views of the day–unless, of course, they were false prophets.

Joseph Smith claimed from the very beginning that the “Personage” told him he was to join none of the churches, that “all their creeds were an abomination in his sight.” This is the beginning of Mormonism, and this idea of “abomination” it is carried through many years of hateful claims about Catholics and Protestants.

Orson Pratt claimed that Catholics and Protestants are “nothing less than the whore of Babylon,” and called “Protestant daughters,” “harlot daughters.”

Mormon Apostle John Taylor also referred to Catholics as “Babylon the great,” “mother of harlots”; and Protestants as “lewd daughters.”

Can you really claim that “harlot daughters,” and “lewd daughters,” are not the same as “whore daughters”?

And–ParkerD, really, I expected better from you, than trying to reduce this issue to the use of “whore” in the Bible.

Apostle Orson Pratt wrote of Roman Catholic, Greek, and Protestant churches, “. . . .thus hath the Lord spoken. Great, and fearful, and most terrible judgments are decreed upon these corrupt powers. . .for strong is the Lord God who shall execute His fierce wrath upon them, and He will not cease until He has made a full end, and until their names be blotted out from under heaven.”

So, not only are Christians, outside the Mormon church, called an abomination, whores, and harlot daughters; Mormon leaders predicted our destruction. We are to receive terrible judgments, be sent down to hell, be utterly burned by fire, and our names are to be blotted out from under heaven.

So, let’s keep it honest.

Apostle Orson Pratt The Seer, Vol.2, No.4, p.255
"Both **Catholics and Protestants are nothing less than the “whore of Babylon” **whom the Lord denounces… as having corrupted all the earth by their fornications and wickedness. And any person who shall be so wicked as to receive a holy ordinance of the gospel from the ministers of any of these apostate churches will be sent down to hell with them, unless they repent of the unholy and impious act. . . .

Authenticity of the Book of Mormon, p.84 - p.85
“The Roman Catholic, Greek, and Protestant church is the great corrupt ecclesiastic power, represented by great Babylon which has made all nations drunk with her wickedness, and she must fall, after she has been warned with the sound of the everlasting gospel. Her overthrow will be by a series of the most terrible judgments which will quickly succeed each other, and sweep over the nations where she has her dominion, and at last she will be utterly burned by fire, for thus hath the Lord spoken. Great, and fearful, and most terrible judgments are decreed upon these corrupt powers, the nations of modern Christendom; for strong is the Lord God who shall execute His fierce wrath upon them, and He will not cease until He has made a full end, and until their names be blotted out from under heaven.” - Apostle Orson Pratt, Divine

Anna

 

[Marie5890]

Apostle Orson Pratt wrote of Roman Catholic, Greek, and Protestant churches, “. . . .thus hath the Lord spoken. Great, and fearful, and most terrible judgments are decreed upon these corrupt powers. . .for strong is the Lord God who shall execute His fierce wrath upon them, and He will not cease until He has made a full end, and until their names be blotted out from under heaven.”

So, not only are Christians, outside the Mormon church, called an abomination, whores, and harlot daughters; Mormon leaders predicted our destruction. We are to receive terrible judgments, be sent down to hell, be utterly burned by fire, and our names are to be blotted out from under heaven.

So, let’s keep it honest.

Apostle Orson Pratt The Seer, Vol.2, No.4, p.255
"Both **Catholics and Protestants are nothing less than the “whore of Babylon” **whom the Lord denounces… as having corrupted all the earth by their fornications and wickedness. And any person who shall be so wicked as to receive a holy ordinance of the gospel from the ministers of any of these apostate churches will be sent down to hell with them, unless they repent of the unholy and impious act. . . .

Authenticity of the Book of Mormon, p.84 - p.85
“The Roman Catholic, Greek, and Protestant church is the great corrupt ecclesiastic power, represented by great Babylon which has made all nations drunk with her wickedness, and she must fall, after she has been warned with the sound of the everlasting gospel. Her overthrow will be by a series of the most terrible judgments which will quickly succeed each other, and sweep over the nations where she has her dominion, and at last she will be utterly burned by fire, for thus hath the Lord spoken. Great, and fearful, and most terrible judgments are decreed upon these corrupt powers, the nations of modern Christendom; for strong is the Lord God who shall execute His fierce wrath upon them, and He will not cease until He has made a full end, and until their names be blotted out from under heaven.” - Apostle Orson Pratt, Divine

Anna

(Anna, not going to get too caught up in this thread, but wanted to thank you for your quotes and for your research…The research that I did after I left Mormonism was more about the dogmas and their histories, but I never really got into what the early LDS leaders said about other churches…I vaguely remember hearing about how anti-Catholic the early LDS leaders were but never really deeply research the facts of that assertion…Interesting…)

(I find it curious that both Mormonism and Catholicism have been on the receiving end of persecution and a boat load of mis-information and lies…I cringe at the various forms of martyrdom the early Christian suffered for hundreds of years…)

(Thank you for your research and your willingness and time to share…I have learned a great deal. )

 

[Anna_Scott]

(Anna, not going to get too caught up in this thread, but wanted to thank you for your quotes and for your research…The research that I did after I left Mormonism was more about the dogmas and their histories, but I never really got into what the early LDS leaders said about other churches…I vaguely remember hearing about how anti-Catholic the early LDS leaders were but never really deeply research the facts of that assertion…Interesting…)

(I find it curious that both Mormonism and Catholicism have been on the receiving end of persecution and a boat load of mis-information and lies…I cringe at the various forms of martyrdom the early Christian suffered for hundreds of years…)

(Thank you for your research and your willingness and time to share…I have learned a great deal. )

Marie5890,

I’m glad the quotes were helpful. I really don’t want to keep going on this Thread, either. I’ve had many long discussions and debates on a number of Mormon Threads. The same issues and same arguments are repeatedly hashed.

It is very sad when any faith or people are persecuted, physically, verbally, or otherwise.

I think we all just have to keep praying that we can step aside and allow the love of Christ to shine through.

In spite all all the traumatic experiences I’ve had with the Mormon church, I bear no ill feelings. The wounds were deep, but Christ has healed them.

May God bless you,
Anna

 

[Marie5890]

In spite all all the traumatic experiences I’ve had with the Mormon church, I bear no ill feelings. The wounds were deep, but Christ has healed them.

May God bless you,
Anna

You, too.



It is so easy to forget about focusing on Christ when people get into scripture battles.

Gratefully, He is merciful.

 

[KathleenGee]

Amen!

Today is the Solemnity of Mary, Mother of Jesus, and I prayed for all the women who come to CAF to learn from her…and to come to the Truth!

I am now at the end of this thread and my workload is now greatly increased after several weeks of rest and reflection and learning here on CAF.

I will come back but not engage in Mormon or Muslim or anti-Catholic fundamentalist threads…we have sites here to refer people to and I sent one to another who was helped. I have my basics but am more pastoral in my catechizing to people outside the Church in my work.

Happy New Year!

 

[Marie5890]

Amen!

Today is the Solemnity of Mary, Mother of Jesus, and I prayed for all the women who come to CAF to learn from her…and to come to the Truth!

I am now at the end of this thread and my workload is now greatly increased after several weeks of rest and reflection and learning here on CAF.

I will come back but not engage in Mormon or Muslim or anti-Catholic fundamentalist threads…we have sites here to refer people to and I sent one to another who was helped. I have my basics but am more pastoral in my catechizing to people outside the Church in my work.

Happy New Year!

Thank you for your prayers, Kathleen.

Hope your New Year finds you strengthen by all graces.

 

[RebeccaJ]

Amen!

Today is the Solemnity of Mary, Mother of Jesus, and I prayed for all the women who come to CAF to learn from her…and to come to the Truth!

I am now at the end of this thread and my workload is now greatly increased after several weeks of rest and reflection and learning here on CAF.

I will come back but not engage in Mormon or Muslim or anti-Catholic fundamentalist threads…we have sites here to refer people to and I sent one to another who was helped. I have my basics but am more pastoral in my catechizing to people outside the Church in my work.

Happy New Year!

KathleenGee, thank you for your posts and for your witness of truth and thank you for the prayers. With a new year, I too believe it is time for me to focus elsewhere. As St Paul teaches us, give the truth, and if it is not heard don’t hang around! (Yes, that was paraphrase.)

Peace be with you.

 

[Anna_Scott]

You, too.



It is so easy to forget about focusing on Christ when people get into scripture battles.

Gratefully, He is merciful.

You are so right Marie.

While we do need to provide a basis for our beliefs, I will say the battle of “quotes” is on my long list of weakness.

Sometimes, I feel the Lord tugging on my shoulder, as if to say, step aside.

God is, indeed, merciful.

Anna

 

[Anna_Scott]

Amen!

Today is the Solemnity of Mary, Mother of Jesus, and I prayed for all the women who come to CAF to learn from her…and to come to the Truth!

I am now at the end of this thread and my workload is now greatly increased after several weeks of rest and reflection and learning here on CAF.

I will come back but not engage in Mormon or Muslim or anti-Catholic fundamentalist threads…we have sites here to refer people to and I sent one to another who was helped. I have my basics but am more pastoral in my catechizing to people outside the Church in my work.

Happy New Year!

Kathleen,

The Lord has given you a kind and tender heart.

I am not familiar with the “Solemnity of Mary” (being Protestant). I will do some research on this.

I pray God’s peace and blessings upon you.
Anna

 

[KathleenGee]

Thank you all for your assistance and prayers and good will.

As today is the Solemnity of Mary, here is the prayer by Sr. Faustina of Divine Mercy to the Mother of God…and it also reveals the need for everyone to never put their trust in religious people!!!..

I mean, it is good not to wear too much religion on your sleeve because then people have that much higher expectation of you than you can carry through… Sr Faustina was sick alot in the convent. She used to get flack. One time she said there is more grace coming from God into the world in convents through the sick than the healthy ones!

"O Mary, my mother and my Lady, I offer you my soul, my body, my life and my death, and all that will come after it. I place everything in your hands. O my Mother, cover my soul with Your virginal mantle and grant me the grace of purity of heart, soul and body. Defend me with Your power against all enemies, and especially those who hide their malice behind the mask of virtue…Fortify my soul that pain may not break it. Mother of grace, teach me to live by God’s power.

O Mary, a terrible soul has pierced Your holy soul. Except for God, no one knows of your suffering. Your soul does not break ; it is brave, because it is with Jesus. Sweet Mother, unite my soul to Jesus, because it is only then that i will be able to endure all trials and tribulations, and only in union with Jesus will my little sacrifices be pleasing to God. Sweetest Mother, continue to teach me about the interior life. May the sword of suffering never break me. O pure Virgin, pour courage into my heart and guide it.’

Mary responded with the greatest answer to dialogue, disputes and — what have you:

“Yes!, thy will be done.”

YES. YES.

YES to every moment of our lives in imitation of Mary, yes to God’s will to the situation we deal with at the moment…subject all to Christ! and bring forth His kingdom as Mary did to us.

Kathleen

 

[Anna_Scott]

Thank you all for your assistance and prayers and good will.

As today is the Solemnity of Mary, here is the prayer of by Sr. Faustina of Divine Mercy to the Mother of God…and it also reveals the need for everyone to never put their trust in religious people!!!..I mean, it is good not to wear too much religion on your sleeve because then people have that much higher expectation of you than you can carry through… Sr Faustina was sick alot in the convent. She used to get flack. One time she said there is more grace in convents through the sick than the healthy ones!

"O Mary, my mother and my Lady, I offer you my soul, my body, my life and my death, and all that will come after it. I place everything in your hands. O my Mother, cover my soul with Your virginal mantle and grant me the grace of purity of heart, soul and body. Defend me with Your power against all enemies, and especially those who hide their malice behind the mask of virtue…Fortify my soul that pain may not break it. Mother of grace, teach me to live by God’s power.

O Mary, a terrible soul has pierced Your holy soul. Except for God, no one knows of your suffering. Your soul does not break ; it is brave, because it is with Jesus. Sweet Mother, unite my soul to Jesus, because it is only then that i will be able to endure all trials and tribulations, and only in union with jesus will my little sacrifices be pleasing to God. Sweetest Mother, continue to teach me about the interior life. May the sword of suffering never break me. O pure Virgin, pour courage into my heart and guide it.’

Kathleen

Thank you Kathleen for sharing this beautiful and humble prayer.

Anna

 

[catholic-rcia]

I want to ad this. I have not been here for maybe a year or so. Its easy to get caught up and loose the proper focus. My failure is not praying enough, we can always pray more. You guys are really great in your efforts for others here…I to am moving on.

God Bless all of you

 

[Marie5890]

You are so right Marie.

While we do need to provide a basis for our beliefs, I will say the battle of “quotes” is on my long list of weakness.

Sometimes, I feel the Lord tugging on my shoulder, as if to say, step aside.

God is, indeed, merciful.

Anna

LOL…I so understand…I tend to be obessive about facts and have accurate facts out there …

So I understand that pull by the Lord…and I am reminded that even He would just let people be in their disbelief and errors of thinking and understanding…

He would correct for sure…but He didnt go around forcing people to understand…

He never strikes me as someone to beat a dead horse as it were…

 

[Marie5890]

I want to ad this. I have not been here for maybe a year or so. Its easy to get caught up and loose the proper focus. My failure is not praying enough, we can always pray more. You guys are really great in your efforts for others here…I to am moving on.

God Bless all of you

Best to you Catholic-rcia…

 

[KathleenGee]

God bless you, Catholic RCIA…you will bear more fruit in your primary mission to be holy and help others in your area…

To illuminate more,…the greatest suffering is not from those who disagree with you who live in a different ‘family mansion’. I mean, jealousy and betrayal is very common in the American Catholic culture today…we must always draw each day on the new life of Jesus Christ!

The greatest suffering is from those who are your associates, your confreres, those under the same ‘roof’. That prayer is not so much directed to the far away, but to those close by…sometimes those you trust the most were the ones who abandoned you…just as Christ was abandoned by His apostles…but just for awhile.

The apostles hid in fear and tears after Our Lord died. Even after they saw Him in His resurrected state. It was the Holy Spirit Who came to give them the Lord’s presence and strength to be courageous witnesses for Christ…by then the Apostles had truly died to themselves…or just enough to know they could not save themselves even from fear. So it was with the Holy Spirit Who filled them and filled us. He is always with us and Our Lord promised us He would never leave us and give us His Comforter Who would teach us many things…the greatest is what S. Catherine of Siena taught…
Who we are not and Who Christ Is!!

 

[Anna_Scott]

I want to ad this. I have not been here for maybe a year or so. Its easy to get caught up and loose the proper focus. My failure is not praying enough, we can always pray more. You guys are really great in your efforts for others here…I to am moving on.

God Bless all of you

Have a blessed New Year, Catholic-RCIA.

Anna