Mormon "Apostasy & Restoration"

[dianaiad]

Thanks Rebecca, I thought the same thing. Diane is a mormon, doesn’t know the answer, yet questions me for not knowing it either…

I question you for asking it, and for asking it in this forum, Viki. I’ve been around the block too many times, and in my over 40 years of dealing with critics of the CoJCoLDS, and with anti-Mormons (the two are not the same thing,) I have never found that a question like that, asked by an ex-Mormon, is ever anything but a troll; a plant designed to promote mockery or derision. Certainly, if you had paid any attention during your time as a Mormon, you would know the answer–which is–there really isn’t any theological reason for the way we fold our arms when we pray. We aren’t the only group that does it, y’know. It’s one of the many forms of prayerful attitudes used in the world, all intended to show humility, or respect, or readiness to listen. Our primary children ARE taught that it is to show respect and reverence. It’s simply what we do. We also fold our hands, or simply stand respectfully, or kneel–or not. If you remember your days as a Mormon, you should remember that we are taught to pray constantly; pretty much a dialogue with God whenever one needs to have one. That isn’t always in a place where one CAN fold one’s arms, bow one’s head and close one’s eyes. People can get into crashes that way.

You, as a Mormon of 22 years, should know that. If you don’t, why in the world are you asking the question in a semi-combative forum which has mostly non-Mormons and anti-Mormons, and, perhaps, three Mormons in it? Why didn’t you ask elsewhere? MADB, for instance, or a forum where more Mormons are?

As to whether I 'question you…" I believe that my first response to you was serious, straight-forward and honest; because I didn’t want to think that an anti was here using such an obvious ploy to start controversy. After all, it IS a natural question for a non-Mormon to ask. It is NOT a natural question for someone who has been a Mormon for 22 years to ask.

Indeed, if you have to ask a bunch of Catholics why Mormons fold their arms to pray, I have to consider that you weren’t paying attention to anything else during your membership, either; I would recomend that anyone who asks you what Mormons think or believe confirm what you tell them before accepting it. You don’t seem to have a handle on the simplest of things.

 

[RebeccaJ]

I question you for asking it, and for asking it in this forum, Viki. I’ve been around the block too many times, and in my over 40 years of dealing with critics of the CoJCoLDS, and with anti-Mormons (the two are not the same thing,) I have never found that a question like that, asked by an ex-Mormon, is ever anything but a troll; a plant designed to promote mockery or derision. Certainly, if you had paid any attention during your time as a Mormon, you would know the answer–which is–there really isn’t any theological reason for the way we fold our arms when we pray. We aren’t the only group that does it, y’know. It’s one of the many forms of prayerful attitudes used in the world, all intended to show humility, or respect, or readiness to listen. Our primary children ARE taught that it is to show respect and reverence. It’s simply what we do. We also fold our hands, or simply stand respectfully, or kneel–or not. If you remember your days as a Mormon, you should remember that we are taught to pray constantly; pretty much a dialogue with God whenever one needs to have one. That isn’t always in a place where one CAN fold one’s arms, bow one’s head and close one’s eyes. People can get into crashes that way.

You, as a Mormon of 22 years, should know that. If you don’t, why in the world are you asking the question in a semi-combative forum which has mostly non-Mormons and anti-Mormons, and, perhaps, three Mormons in it? Why didn’t you ask elsewhere? MADB, for instance, or a forum where more Mormons are?

As to whether I 'question you…" I believe that my first response to you was serious, straight-forward and honest; because I didn’t want to think that an anti was here using such an obvious ploy to start controversy. After all, it IS a natural question for a non-Mormon to ask. It is NOT a natural question for someone who has been a Mormon for 22 years to ask.

Indeed, if you have to ask a bunch of Catholics why Mormons fold their arms to pray, I have to consider that you weren’t paying attention to anything else during your membership, either; I would recomend that anyone who asks you what Mormons think or believe confirm what you tell them before accepting it. You don’t seem to have a handle on the simplest of things.

lol! Typical mormon attitude towards a former mormon. The true colors are coming out all over today.

You should realize Diana, that mormons who become Catholic discover many things they never really thought about before. Folded arms while praying I’ve heard more than once. It isn’t a dig! I think it is dang cute when little kids are all fold their arms tight and close their eyes as tight as I can. It is very normal as a LDS member. Something you don’t give a second thought, let alone wonder why. It is something you notice is not in Catholicism, at all. It is very foreign to a Catholic. . It is not something to get all worked up about, as an anti-mormon plot.

 

[vickimonica]

'Nuff said… Thanks Rebecca…

 

[Answersplease]

I question you for asking it, and for asking it in this forum, Viki.
…

…I would recomend that anyone who asks you what Mormons think or believe confirm what you tell them before accepting it. You don’t seem to have a handle on the simplest of things.

I question you for asking it, and for asking it in this forum, Viki.
…

You don’t seem to have a handle on the simplest of things.

Answersplease:

Wow! That’s the way you treat former Mormons.

 

[vickimonica]

Thanks ANSWERSPLEASE… FYI – MOST mormons are like the Amish – If you leave the group, they’ll SHUN you… I SAID MOST…

 

[Xavierlives]

Do you understand the concept “a prophet is only a prophet when he speaks as such?” You have a similar one about being a Pope…it is only in certain circumstances that he can invoke the idea of Papal infallibility. In all other things, the Pope can be, and has been, very fallible indeed.

It seems to me that we Mormons are quite aware of the difference between Brigham Young the man…and Brigham Young the prophet. Brigham Young the man was fallible. He made mistakes, and he speculated a LOT. However, he himself was very aware of his failings in this matter, and was very careful about what got put into scripture.

So no…“Brigham Young” and the Journal of Discourses does NOT equal 'the church taught." WE know this about our church teachings. Since WE do, why don’t you? You seem to have this concept down about Catholicism.

And the sea is only salty so long as you taste it,

 

[Xavierlives]

Why didn’t you ask elsewhere? MADB, for instance, or a forum where more Mormons are?

Hmmm… good idea!

 

[ParkerD]

Thanks ANSWERSPLEASE… FYI – MOST mormons are like the Amish – If you leave the group, they’ll SHUN you… I SAID MOST…

Vicki Monica,
That’s a fairly uninformed opinion, based on my experience which is limited to Utah and Georgia, mostly. We have a neighbor within a predominantly LDS neighborhood who has “left” the church twice (including recently), but in his current case of cancer his health is prayed for often along with several others with health issues, including those of other religions in our neighborhood. They come to neighborhood socials, and are greeted by everyone with all the neighborliness one would find anywhere. So if your experience is different, then perhaps you lived in an area where the people had other issues or perhaps were so involved with daily activities that it would seem to an “outsider” that they were being shunned when the issue was more of people just plain being busy. That does happen.

Peace to all and to you.

 

[Marie5890]

My experience with people who leave the LDS varies.

The idea of “shunning” I disagree with. I wouldn’t say shunned. That is not to say it doesn’t cause pain and rifts in some families, it certainly can.

BUT the very same thing can be said for someone coming from a strong Catholic family and they leave. It too, can cause a great deal of pain and rifts in the family. I’ve known that to happen too.

So Mormons really dont have a monopoly on that kind of sad experience. It happens in other faith traditions as well.

When someone rejects a faith that is so important to the family traditions, (and for many LDS, their family faith traditions go back to the pioneers) it’s painful. And people lash out.

Its also fair to say that some who leave the LDS church do become very anti-Mormon and can get in the faith and try to tear down the faith that others still hold close. They can get down right N-A-S-T-Y and try to spread that.

Its sad all the way around, when such happens to any family with any faith tradition.

 

[dianaiad]

lol! Typical mormon attitude towards a former mormon. The true colors are coming out all over today.

You should realize Diana, that mormons who become Catholic discover many things they never really thought about before. Folded arms while praying I’ve heard more than once. It isn’t a dig! I think it is dang cute when little kids are all fold their arms tight and close their eyes as tight as I can. It is very normal as a LDS member. Something you don’t give a second thought, let alone wonder why. It is something you notice is not in Catholicism, at all. It is very foreign to a Catholic. . It is not something to get all worked up about, as an anti-mormon plot.

If you will go back to my initial answer to her question, you will know that I did not consider it to BE an ‘anti-mormon plot,’ Rebecca.

 

[dianaiad]

My experience with people who leave the LDS varies.

The idea of “shunning” I disagree with. I wouldn’t say shunned. That is not to say it doesn’t cause pain and rifts in some families, it certainly can.

BUT the very same thing can be said for someone coming from a strong Catholic family and they leave. It too, can cause a great deal of pain and rifts in the family. I’ve known that to happen too.

So Mormons really dont have a monopoly on that kind of sad experience. It happens in other faith traditions as well.

When someone rejects a faith that is so important to the family traditions, (and for many LDS, their family faith traditions go back to the pioneers) it’s painful. And people lash out.

Its also fair to say that some who leave the LDS church do become very anti-Mormon and can get in the faith and try to tear down the faith that others still hold close. They can get down right N-A-S-T-Y and try to spread that.

Its sad all the way around, when such happens to any family with any faith tradition.

I have noticed the same thing, Marie. I’ve seen it in ex-just about anythings. Simply leaving causes family rifts…and being excommunicated can REALLY cause the ex to explode into ‘anti-’ mode, no matter what belief system is involved.

 

[Marie5890]

I have noticed the same thing, Marie. I’ve seen it in ex-just about anythings. Simply leaving causes family rifts…and being excommunicated can REALLY cause the ex to explode into ‘anti-’ mode, no matter what belief system is involved.

I cant help but think that, more often than not, it really says more about human nature in general, rather than any system specifically.

Just my observation.

 

[ricko]

praying girl

 

[vickimonica]

Vicki Monica,
That’s a fairly uninformed opinion, based on my experience which is limited to Utah and Georgia, mostly. We have a neighbor within a predominantly LDS neighborhood who has “left” the church twice (including recently), but in his current case of cancer his health is prayed for often along with several others with health issues, including those of other religions in our neighborhood. They come to neighborhood socials, and are greeted by everyone with all the neighborliness one would find anywhere. So if your experience is different, then perhaps you lived in an area where the people had other issues or perhaps were so involved with daily activities that it would seem to an “outsider” that they were being shunned when the issue was more of people just plain being busy. That does happen.

Peace to all and to you.

As I said – Twice – MOST…

 

[RebeccaJ]

If you will go back to my initial answer to her question, you will know that I did not consider it to BE an ‘anti-mormon plot,’ Rebecca.

You’re kidding, right?

 

[Answersplease]

If you will go back to my initial answer to her question, you will know that I did not consider it to BE an ‘anti-mormon plot,’ Rebecca.

…in my over 40 years of dealing with critics of the CoJCoLDS, and with anti-Mormons…

…I have never found that a question like that, asked by an ex-Mormon, is ever anything but a troll; a plant designed to promote mockery or derision.

 

[Answersplease]

…in my over 40 years of dealing with critics of the CoJCoLDS, and with anti-Mormons…
…I have never found that a question like that, asked by an ex-Mormon, is ever anything but a troll; a plant designed to promote mockery or derision.
…
…I would recomend that anyone who asks you what Mormons think or believe confirm what you tell them before accepting it. You don’t seem to have a handle on the simplest of things.

 

[peary1]

As far as apostasy is concerned, as far as I am concerned, the Mormon sect is what is apostate, not the Catholic Church. And what exactly was ‘restored’ with the Mormon sect? Part of Satan’s kingdom??

 

[Answersplease]

As far as apostasy is concerned, as far as I am concerned, the Mormon sect is what is apostate, not the Catholic Church. And what exactly was ‘restored’ with the Mormon sect? Part of Satan’s kingdom??

I’m glad you’re on this thread.

KathleenG seems to have left.

And Anna left too.

If that keeps happening, there won’t be anyone left to debate the Mormons.

KathleenG, please come back.

I started posting on this thread late and had not read all of it, and then I went to the threads beginning and saw some of your posts so I quoted them.

I think you are very nice and know much more about Catholicism than I do.

 

[Xavierlives]

I’m glad you’re on this thread.

KathleenG seems to have left.

And Anna left too.

If that keeps happening, there won’t be anyone left to debate the Mormons.

KathleenG, please come back.

I started posting on this thread late and had not read all of it, and then I went to the threads beginning and saw some of your posts so I quoted them.

I think you are very nice and know much more about Catholicism than I do.

I found most of the Mormons to be relatively informed about their religion. They don’t seem to contradict each other (publically) about established church theology. I’ve been on the board for 2 months, and the problem I have found is if you find a flaw in their reasoning they just shut down and move on to the next thread. I’d rather not chase them around the forum to get them to answer my questions athough they are all still out there. So now, on these threads, It is check reading what they are saying.

Maybe I need to start a thread of all of my unanswered questions (from the forum), so they can address them again, if they want.