Mormon "Apostasy & Restoration"

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I’m glad you’re on this thread.

KathleenG seems to have left.

And Anna left too.

If that keeps happening, there won’t be anyone left to debate the Mormons.

KathleenG, please come back.

I started posting on this thread late and had not read all of it, and then I went to the threads beginning and saw some of your posts so I quoted them.

I think you are very nice and know much more about Catholicism than I do.
Answersplease,

I did post on your new Thread:
Anna_Scott said:
If a prophet says. . .
I’ve posted on numerous Mormon Threads in the past. The same issues are debated over and over, with the same responses, from pretty much the same LDS forum members.

There are times, when I need to focus on topics other than Mormonism.

I do return, when I am asked for help with particular issues or particular situations.

I will post on your new Thread for awhile. 🙂

Anna
 
Answersplease,

I did post on your new Thread:

I’ve posted on numerous Mormon Threads in the past. The same issues are debated over and over, with the same responses, from pretty much the same LDS forum members.

There are times, when I need to focus on topics other than Mormonism.

I do return, when I am asked for help with particular issues or particular situations.

I will post on your new Thread for awhile. 🙂

Anna
Thanks Anna.
 
I think it might be very interesting.

Of course, it will mean a lot of work for me, and I’m not too sure I have the time–tracking down where all those questions actually did get answered, that is, and providing the message numbers and threads that went with those answers.
This may be easier:

Spend some quality quiet time at this page Diane http://utahmission.com/pages/Mass_Explained.html
This is my Church in Utah
Ask your self after you go through the page. What exactly did my LDS Church restore?
If you have any questions at all about what is on this page please ask in all sincerity in order to understand more clearly.

An LDS women who became Catholic last year, who has come to greatly understand the core of the Mass cannot now believe that when the LDS Sacrament is over the bread gets thrown in the garbage. (Innocently) this is one thing that really hits her heart after coming to the same revelation about Holy Communion as the Apostles. Something to think about.

For you out of love for Christ.
 
This may be easier:

Spend some quality quiet time at this page Diane utahmission.com/pages/Mass_Explained.html
This is my Church in Utah
Ask your self after you go through the page. What exactly did my LDS Church restore?
If you have any questions at all about what is on this page please ask in all sincerity in order to understand more clearly.

An LDS women who became Catholic last year, who has come to greatly understand the core of the Mass cannot now believe that when the LDS Sacrament is over the bread gets thrown in the garbage. (Innocently) this is one thing that really hits her heart after coming to the same revelation about Holy Communion as the Apostles. Something to think about.

For you out of love for Christ.
Very nice page there. 🙂 When I was studying while in RCIA, the Real Presence was very difficult. I was stunned when I read Justin Martyr’s First Apology and his dialogue with Trypho.
 
This may be easier:

Spend some quality quiet time at this page Diane http://utahmission.com/pages/Mass_Explained.html
This is my Church in Utah
Ask your self after you go through the page. What exactly did my LDS Church restore?
If you have any questions at all about what is on this page please ask in all sincerity in order to understand more clearly.

An LDS women who became Catholic last year, who has come to greatly understand the core of the Mass cannot now believe that when the LDS Sacrament is over the bread gets thrown in the garbage. (Innocently) this is one thing that really hits her heart after coming to the same revelation about Holy Communion as the Apostles. Something to think about.

For you out of love for Christ.
If you honestly believe in transubstantiation…that Christ literally is in the bread and wine…then throwing it away after the meeting is indeed sacrilege. I understand this. However, in my view doing so is coming very close to idol worship. (and yes, I KNOW that ‘coming close to’ is NOT actually getting there.) You are giving the symbol more respect and worship than you give to Christ Himself.

Your question did make me think about it…and here’s what I think.You need to remember that we do NOT believe in the literal presence of God in the bread and water/wine. Those things are symbols. Very powerful ones, certainly, but symbols none the less. So…when the sacrament is done; when everyone who wants to has partaken…it’s purpose is done; let it serve no other purpose. For me, treating that bread in any other manner than ‘throwing it away’ (returning it to the earth, so to speak) would be sacrilege. If it is treated in a special way, it is being worshiped for itself. If you use it for another purpose–like cooking with it, for instance–you are being disrespectful of the symbology.
 
If you honestly believe in transubstantiation…that Christ literally is in the bread and wine…then throwing it away after the meeting is indeed sacrilege. I understand this. However, in my view doing so is coming very close to idol worship. (and yes, I KNOW that ‘coming close to’ is NOT actually getting there.) You are giving the symbol more respect and worship than you give to Christ Himself.
You are mistaken. We are not “giving the symbol more respect and worship than [we] give to Christ Himself”. The Eucharist IS Christ Himself! He deserves all of the respect and worship we can give Him.
 
If you honestly believe in transubstantiation…that Christ literally is in the bread and wine…then throwing it away after the meeting is indeed sacrilege. I understand this. However, in my view doing so is coming very close to idol worship. (and yes, I KNOW that ‘coming close to’ is NOT actually getting there.) You are giving the symbol more respect and worship than you give to Christ Himself.

Your question did make me think about it…and here’s what I think.You need to remember that we do NOT believe in the literal presence of God in the bread and water/wine. Those things are symbols. Very powerful ones, certainly, but symbols none the less. So…when the sacrament is done; when everyone who wants to has partaken…it’s purpose is done; let it serve no other purpose. For me, treating that bread in any other manner than ‘throwing it away’ (returning it to the earth, so to speak) would be sacrilege. If it is treated in a special way, it is being worshiped for itself. If you use it for another purpose–like cooking with it, for instance–you are being disrespectful of the symbology.
If that were the case I would not be a Catholic. I could idolize nothing accept Jesus. I take in Christ body soul and divinity at Mass. I am fed spiritually. My eyes were first opened at the breaking of the bread, it led me to full communion. I was not telling you, you must believe. Jesus allowed many of his disciples to leave Him because it was to hard for them to believe as well.

I am merely pointing out that it was the LDS church hundreds of years later that could not accept this, in line with many Protestant churches. What I know most is how it has changed my whole life. How it has brought me so close to Jesus and transformed my life in a way that it is no longer my life but His. I was pointing out that it is the LDS Church that made the changes other than what Christ has taught, what the Church has always taught. Thomas could not believe until he touched, I could not believe fully until I ate the food that Christ Himself gives. Himself in so many glorious ways . People wonder if miracles are true. They are, and this is the miracle that He left His Church. By remembering His Passion, we remember what He did for us.

*Before he was given up to death, a death he freely accepted, he took bread and gave you thanks. He broke the bread, gave it to his disciples, and said:
Take this, all of you, and eat it: this is my Body which will be given up for you.
When supper was ended, he took the cup. Again he gave you thanks and praise, gave the cup to his disciples, and said:
Take this, all of you, and drink from it; this is the cup of my Blood, the Blood of the New and Everlasting Covenant. It will be shed for you and for all men so that sins may be forgiven. Do this in memory of me.
*This is exactly what we do at Mass……exactly what Jesus asked us to do ***
 
Then why hasn’t there been any scripture written since you guys closed the canon?

…and why don’t any of the Cardinals and Popes CLAIM to have recieved personal revelation that is equal to that of the early apostles, worthy of including in the scriptural canon? From what I understand, even the claim of Papal infallibility is limited to interpreting scripture already written, not to further, and new, revelations. At least, that’s what I keep getting told.
You are exactly right! The only revelation they can get is to better explain what has already been written. No new Scripture will ever be written until God comes again in glory!

By the way where did any of the Apostles ever add anything to the word of God. They did not add one thing to what Jesus did or said.🤷 WHere did the Apostles have personal revelation? They were being Led by Jesus CHrist throught he Holy SPirit the same way that the Pope and Bishops etc are today.

Everything they taught and said they agreed on and came from Jesus:shrug:

The Popes can have personal revelation from God in explaining scripture YES. But there is no personal revelation that can be accepted if it goes against the word of God. Thats where are faiths are quite different.

What God says and JS says are very very different and must be rejected.
 
If you honestly believe in transubstantiation…that Christ literally is in the bread and wine…then throwing it away after the meeting is indeed sacrilege. I understand this. However, in my view doing so is coming very close to idol worship. (and yes, I KNOW that ‘coming close to’ is NOT actually getting there.) You are giving the symbol more respect and worship than you give to Christ Himself.

Your question did make me think about it…and here’s what I think.You need to remember that we do NOT believe in the literal presence of God in the bread and water/wine. Those things are symbols. Very powerful ones, certainly, but symbols none the less. So…when the sacrament is done; when everyone who wants to has partaken…it’s purpose is done; let it serve no other purpose. For me, treating that bread in any other manner than ‘throwing it away’ (returning it to the earth, so to speak) would be sacrilege. If it is treated in a special way, it is being worshiped for itself. If you use it for another purpose–like cooking with it, for instance–you are being disrespectful of the symbology.
Dianaiad:

It is not idol worship when you believe the “thing” you are worshiping is God Himself. We do not believe the Eucharist is a symbol, but rather the body, blood, soul and divinity of Christ. Therefore it must be consumed, not pitched. Your statement that “You are giving the symbol more respect and worship than you give to Christ Himself” tells me that you don’t understand the Catholic position.

I would totally agree that what you are doing in the LDS church would constitute a symbol because you have no authority to consecrate. You can only have a symbol. In that case I don’t really think it matters what you do with it.
 
We have the same physical presence of God in our tabernacles…the same God Who led the Jews out of Egypt as the Pillar of Fire, Who parted the Red Sea, Who fed the people with manna from heaven…The Angel Gabriel pointing out to the shepherds to also note he would not only be wrapped with swaddling clothes, but that He would be placed in an animal feeder to become the Bread of Life for us someday.

Subsequently, our liturgies require the utmost in adoration ind sacred and beautiful space for the lodging of God in His house.

And what is very good is that our liturgies are open to the public for all people to witness. The Sanctus before the consecration of the bread and wine are those from the Old Testament, and Christ said we do this in memory of His life, teachings, miracles and passion of His death here on earth…

The Mass is the first stepping stone into heaven from earth and its image is alluded to in Rev 22., the New Jerusalem…the Mass is said every day and every hour around the world as atonement for the entire world…the only acceptable sacrifice to the Father being Jesus Himself and united with us. The Crucified Lord is our bridge to the Heavenly Father and it is most perfected as Church at the Mass.
 
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