Mormon - Beliefs - A civil Discussion Please

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MEgus said:
Yes, the office of Apostle is an Elder. First Elder would be the President.

And Peter, James and John were Apostles.

And everything Joseph did, he did under the direction of the Savior in relation to the Church.

MEgus
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you really believe that? i can show you in LDS sources where that is NOT true. elder, seventy, high priest are all specific offices that are NOT teh same as Apostle.
 
PaulDupre said:
So why didn’t the Lord send Peter, James and John back to rescue the church when (as you believe) all the apostles were killed in the first century?
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What would be the point?

The reason they had the problems they had was the distance and communications and travel in those days.

By the time they found out that one or more of them had been killed and they tried to get the group back together to choose other Apostles, there were even more who had been killed. The Lord waited until the last days when these problems were able to be overcome.

MEgus
 
MEgus said:
What would be the point?

The reason they had the problems they had was the distance and communications and travel in those days.

By the time they found out that one or more of them had been killed and they tried to get the group back together to choose other Apostles, there were even more who had been killed. The Lord waited until the last days when these problems were able to be overcome.

MEgus
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by that logic then why didn’t he wait until modern communications had been invented?
 
dianaiad said:
Planned?

maybe…probably…not.

Knew about? Certainly. It was, after all, prophesied.
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Yes, but not that the apostasy would be total and obliterate the Church.

Why do you point to that prophesy, but disbelieve Christ’s own promises to His established Church?

I don’t believe there is a Mormon answer… it seems the only response is that, “It must have happened because I’m Mormon and that is what I was taught.”

Which then means that you’re taking the word of a man on a vision against Christ’s own warnings against following such distractions.

RAR
 
RAR said:
Yes, but not that the apostasy would be total and obliterate the Church.

Why do you point to that prophesy, but disbelieve Christ’s own promises to His established Church?

I don’t believe there is a Mormon answer… it seems the only response is that, “It must have happened because I’m Mormon and that is what I was taught.”

Which then means that you’re taking the word of a man on a vision against Christ’s own warnings against following such distractions.

RAR
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Ah, but from our POV, pretty much the same thing can be said of you.

The solution is to study very hard, think even harder, and pray hardest of all in order to get the confirmation of the truth from the Holy Ghost.

MOST of us, Catholic and Mormon alike, tend to float along on our ‘father’s faith,’ and haven’t actually taken that challenge. (Though I believe that Mormons, since we have been told from our youth to do precisely this, are more likely to, y’know, actually DO it…) I can’t tell you how many people have actually cautioned AGAINST such an action.

(shrug)

I believe that if you do that, you will be led to where God wants you.
 
dianaiad said:
Ah, but from our POV, pretty much the same thing can be said of you.

The solution is to study very hard, think even harder, and pray hardest of all in order to get the confirmation of the truth from the Holy Ghost.

MOST of us, Catholic and Mormon alike, tend to float along on our ‘father’s faith,’ and haven’t actually taken that challenge. (Though I believe that Mormons, since we have been told from our youth to do precisely this, are more likely to, y’know, actually DO it…) I can’t tell you how many people have actually cautioned AGAINST such an action.

(shrug)

I believe that if you do that, you will be led to where God wants you.
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y’know, if you think Mormons are more likely than anyone else to study think and pray in order to discern where God is leading them, you obviously haven’t been around other people of faith much.

the arrogance. same attitude y’all have toward Christians of old. it’s deplorable.
 
The solution is to study very hard, think even harder, and pray hardest of all in order to get the confirmation of the truth from the Holy Ghost.
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I don’t need to pray about historical claims. I only need to review the available evidence and make a decision. For instance, I don’t need to ask God whether George Washington really chopped down that cherry tree. I also don’t need to ask God whether the Great Apostasy occurred. Both are historical claims that can be tested against the available evidence, and the evidence supports neither claim. I don’t need to seek the Spirit’s guidance on either point.

NS
 
To RAR and any others who are joining th conversation, Please remember to keep things civil.
The Point of this thread is to discuss things based upon actual teaching in Both Churches so let’s be careful about using terms like, “It looks like you believe”, or such.

Not trying to get on anyone’s case here, but just a friendly reminder. 😃 😃

Peace
James
 
MEgus said:
James, I could be wrong, but I think the term “Apostles” was first used by Jesus Christ. I don’t think the word existed before that.

But let me know what you find out when your searching.

MEgus
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While I am unable to do much research, I did post a question on the Sacred Scripture Forum with this result. -

I’m not a Greek scholar, but I do have a concordance of the Septuagint (translated 250 years or so before Christ), and according to it, the Greek word apostolos occurs at least once, in I Kings 14:6. (This concordance is to the Protestant Sept, meaning the deuterocanonicals are left out; the word might be there also). In any case, the word was in use long before Christ lived, so he could not have coined it.

DaveBj

Looking up the Verse we Find:

And it was so, when Ahijah heard the sound of her feet, as she came in at the door, that he said, Come in, thou wife of Jeroboam; why feignest thou thyself to be another? for **I am sent **to thee with heavy F99 tidings.

So we have “Apostle”, the English translation of the Greek, “apostlos” being used long before Jesus birth and meaning the same thing that it means today.

Certainly we can say that when Jesus named the 12 Apostles he was making them his inner circle and “Emissaries”. That is He intended that they be the best taught of His personal disciples, and that “They be Sent” to make disciples of all nations.

Peace
James
 
wilsonpd said:
I would also like a member of Lds to clear up a few other questions:
Does the church teach polygamy in eternity? For example will each man who achieves godhood only be married to the woman he was sealed to on earth or will he have more than one wife?

Mormons do not practice polygamy in the church today, although they did in the early years, when Joseph Smith was the prophet. Apparently they were martyred, and the alleged instruction from God that they should marry was because: they had to increase in number and secondly - when a womans husband died, she could not keep his land, so her late husbands brother, for example could take her as his wife. This way the mormon population increased, and they could maintain ownership rights on land.

A couple is sealed for all eternity when they are married in the temple. If the wife should die first, the remaining spouse may marry another woman for time and eternity. If however, the husband dies, the woman is not able to marry another man for time and eternity. She can only have a civil marriage…So, in a nutshell, yes, in the hereafter the man will have many wives.

The mormon church, will apparently, at a future stage, allow polygamy again, when the prophet receives this instruction from God.

Personally, this is one of the doctrines I battle to accept. I have been a less active mormon woman for 5 years and a member for a total of 22. This is just so difficult for me to digest. Not to sound selfish, but my partner is my soulmate. Cant imagine sharing him with another woman, and likewise he would not want to share me with another man.
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JRKH said:
I would like an answer to this the following question based upon this quote from page 4 of the LDS pamphlet entitled, “The Restoration”

"The Scriptures reveal a pattern of God repeatedly reaching out to His children, even though we do not always listen:
  • God Chooses a prophet.
  • The prophet teaches the gospel and leads the people.
  • God Blesses the people.
  • The people gradually disregard or disobey the teachings of the prophet. They eventually reject the prophet and his teachings and fall into apostacy.
  • Because of apostacy, people lose knowledge of the gospel. Priesthood authority is taken from among them.
  • When the time is right and people are ready to follow Him again, God chooses another prophet, restores the priesthood and the Church, and directs the prophet to teach the gospel."
So
How many times has the gospel been restored by LDS count and who were the “prophets” who restored it?

Peace
James
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I posted this earlier and am still waiting for an answer. Can any of our resident Mormons clear this up for me?
“The Restoration” mentions:
Adam, Noah, Abraham, and Moses.
Were there any others in OT times?
Any Others between Jesus and JS?

Also I would like to know about how long the “Valid Prieshood” lasted in each of these restorations.

Peace
James
 
Personally, this is one of the doctrines I battle to accept. I have been a less active mormon woman for 5 years and a member for a total of 22. This is just so difficult for me to digest. Not to sound selfish, but my partner is my soulmate. Cant imagine sharing him with another woman, and likewise he would not want to share me with another man.
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That teaching you find difficult to digest is probably because, one, it is a false teaching and two, your common sense tells you it’s not true. The bible makes it very clear that in heaven there is no marriage. You will know everyone and love everyone but there is no need for marriage. “When people rise from the dead, they neither marry nor are given in marriage but live like angels in heaven” Matt 22:30. It says NEITHER marry nor are given in marriage. So the Mormons probably twist this verse to change its meaning. But ask yourself, can you imagine an angel with a wife/husband? That’s because like Jesus says, the angels have no need of marriage and of course are not married.
 
JRKH said:
I would like an answer to this the following question based upon this quote from page 4 of the LDS pamphlet entitled, “The Restoration”

"The Scriptures reveal a pattern of God repeatedly reaching out to His children, even though we do not always listen:
  • God Chooses a prophet.
  • The prophet teaches the gospel and leads the people.
  • God Blesses the people.
  • The people gradually disregard or disobey the teachings of the prophet. They eventually reject the prophet and his teachings and fall into apostacy.
  • Because of apostacy, people lose knowledge of the gospel. Priesthood authority is taken from among them.
  • When the time is right and people are ready to follow Him again, God chooses another prophet, restores the priesthood and the Church, and directs the prophet to teach the gospel."
So
How many times has the gospel been restored by LDS count and who were the “prophets” who restored it?

Peace
James
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We believe that there have been seven major dispensations in which the will of God has been made known to man by by establishing a new religious tradition, after the previous one has apostatized. These dispensations, which have been headed by great prophets, have been those of Adam, Enoch, Noah, Abrahan, Moses, Jesus and His Apostles, and lastly Joseph Smith. This we believe to be the last dispensation which will not apostatize, but will culminate in the Second Coming of Jesus Christ in His own time.

zerinus
 
RAR said:
A man who proclaims a new gospel proclaims his own pride.

RAR
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Are you sure your not trying to say that if a man claims he knows the whole gospel proclaims his own pride?

I doubt any of us know the whole will of God. If we did, we would not be here right now.

MEgus
 
majick275 said:
you really believe that? i can show you in LDS sources where that is NOT true. elder, seventy, high priest are all specific offices that are NOT teh same as Apostle.
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The are all specific “Callings”. A 19 year old elder holds the same priesthood as the president of the Church.

But all operate under the keys of the Kingdom given by revelation from Jesus Christ to the Prophet.

MEgus
 
As a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, I would concur with the person who started this thread that anyone wishing to know about the beliefs of my church should go to the link, mormon.org

For those who are interested in a replies from people such as myself regarding things in you view have not been answered honestly by members, I would recommend you sending your request of reply from me in private messages only.

I do not have part of argruments here or anywhere else about the church.
 
truthsilence said:
y’know, if you think Mormons are more likely than anyone else to study think and pray in order to discern where God is leading them, you obviously haven’t been around other people of faith much.

the arrogance. same attitude y’all have toward Christians of old. it’s deplorable.
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Truth,

The people of faith who I have been around constantly tell me that I should not listen to the Holy Ghost for answers. That I should turn to the teachings of men.

Now you tell me, is it arrogance? Or experience?

Every time I try to tell people to follow the scriptures where the Lord himself told us to seek the Holy Ghost to teach us the truth of all things, I am put down.

Why is that?

Will you please enlighten me?

MEgus
 
web2009 said:
The mormon church, will apparently, at a future stage, allow polygamy again, when the prophet receives this instruction from God.

Personally, this is one of the doctrines I battle to accept. I have been a less active mormon woman for 5 years and a member for a total of 22. This is just so difficult for me to digest. Not to sound selfish, but my partner is my soulmate. Cant imagine sharing him with another woman, and likewise he would not want to share me with another man.
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Web, while it is possible, I really don’t think it will ever happen again.

And as to you and your spouse, read Jacobs words again and you will see that for the most part of time, it’s always been one man and one women.

The two of you have nothing to worry about. I feel the same way about my wife. And I don’t want anyone else. I have studied this a great deal, and all the same blessings are available to us with one partner as to others that did what God commanded through out the ages.

MEgus
 
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