Mormon - Beliefs - A civil Discussion Please

[CJ_Nick]

**

Mormons belief that when they die, they are reicarnated, get married, have kids, and their kids will adore them as “gods”. If this is so why do they have to wait until they die?**
,

Hi PJM

I am certainly not contending your contribution but what I have learned from many LDS members seems to indicate a slightly different set of beliefs. They are as follows:

Male Mormons believe they " CAN " ( NOT ALL WILL BE WORTHY ) reach Exaltation to become a God of their own Earth and with their previously sealed wife or wives have several " spirit children " to populate the Earth that they are God of.

Peace,
CJ

 

[LAMBOFGODGIRLY]

Captain, she can’t take any more!

Wow, then it’s true. So here are some more of their beliefs:

• God says the correct name for our Sun is “Shinehah,” which is the name He gave it. Also, the correct name of the moon is “Olea.” See Abraham 3:13.
• God lives on a giant crystal ball. See D&C 130:6-8.

The Earth will undergo a perfection after the millenium and become a huge seer stone of glass. People living on the Earth after this transformation will be able to look into the Earth and see things happening on “inferior” kingdoms (planets). See D&C 130:9

Kolob is the North Star, according to Joseph Smith. Taught by LDS Church Institute Instructor, but still need reference.

UFOs are from the lost ten tribes, which live underneath the north pole. As explained in the Doctrine and Covenants, these tribes will return by flight from the north in the Last Days. See D&C 110:11 and 133:26.

God has cursed water and turned it over to Satan to control. Satan controls bodies of water, especially rivers. See D&C 61:13-19

A day for God is like a thousand years on Earth. This is because it takes a thousand Earth years for God’s home planet Kolob to rotate around once on its axis. See Abraham 3:4-5

Seer stones allow us to see past, present and future events at any location. All of those that make it to the Celestial Kingdom will have their own seer stone, to review any moment or location in the universe. See D&C 130:10-11

Adam and Eve did not have blood in their bodies in the Garden of Eden. The Prophet Joseph Fielding Smith taught: "Adam [and, by extension, all of the animal creation] had no blood in his veins before the fall.

And last but certainly not least!

Joseph Smith taught that the Ten Lost Tribes had gone to the North Pole, as it used to be warm, but God divided the Earth in two and they wound up between Texas and Florida. Then God scooped them up, leaving a big hole called the Gulf of Mexico. And these millions of Hebrews are today on this island floating around in the solar system, but we can’t see them because God has them flying at an angle where the telescopes can’t pick them up. But one day the island will crash back into the Gulf and the earth will reel to and fro like a drunken man. See code-co.com/rcf/mhistdoc/enoch.htm

This is insane!! I can not believe that anyone would believe this! It sounds like scientology! I hope my husband does not believe this, if he knows this and still believes in this “religion” it really makes me think he was brain washed! All we can do is pray to God that he will hold the misled LDS people close to his heart because he knows they were very much misinformed! God is loving! He knew this would happen to his children, he warned about it ALL THE TIME! Pretty much all he did was tell us to not fall for the false prophets that will be on the earth! Remember how he told us that they would come to us in his name, but they were really false! The seer stone issue still freaks me out!

 

[ricko]

Alisha, that’s why the LDS is called a CULT. They have put their faith in a man, a human who is NOT our saviour Jesus Christ. The D&C of Joseph Smith have priority over the Christian bible and even the Book of Mormon. History is full of the false teachings of individuals that start their own personal idea of a religion. It is not hard to mislead people and get them to believe outrageous things.

The Heaven’s Gate believers had faith in their leader, a man, just a man. He convinced them that he was a prophet and that Jesus was waiting for them behind a comet called Hal Bop. The spaceship that was supposed to pick them up did not arrive so he told them they would have to kill themselves to go and meet Jesus. They were all very nice people. They had one thing in common with the Mormon people, they put their faith in A MAN!

 

[dianaiad]

How on earth can you make such presumptions!!! I infer from this statement that you make the judgment that all non-Mormon young people are involved in drugs, alcohol, and sex??? :bigyikes:

According to the statistics, most of 'em are, jerusha. Whether you like that or not, they ARE…the statistics are that 33% of teens (according to “Psychology today”) have sex by the time they are thirteen. That’s…abysmal. Other studies find that 70% of teenagers have had sex by the time they are nineteen.

It is a FACT that teenagers who have strong religious and family backgrounds are far less likely to be in that 33%—or that 70%.

Another fact: it seems that only around 5% of Americans wait for the wedding night. Given these statistics, it only makes sense, if you want to protect yourself and your children, to stay within the culture that you know–and can check up on. Can you be certain? No.

but you do your best, and don’t tell me for one second that you don’t feel the same way, only you want to look for the “Good Catholic boy/girl.”

Are you aware of self-fulfilling prophecy, that negative expectations usually yield negative results? It is no wonder that NCLB is slogging through waist-high snow, when there are educators with your attitudes.

Attitudes? I know facts when I see them. When my students bring me baby pictures–not theirs, but the kids they gave birth to last summer–when the boys sit around telling jokes and miming masturbation while bragging about the ***** (the stars represent language much milder than the word you probably are thinking) they got pregnant two months ago–when the sweetest girl in the class dropped her purse and I helped her pick it up–and had to send her to the nurse because she’s not allowed to have birth control pills and antibiotics in her personal possession at school (they are supposed to be in the nurses’ office if she needs medication during school hours) and she blushingly told me that the antibiotics were because of a ‘thing’ her boyfriend gave her (she’s not quite fifteen) –

Do NOT give me **** about it being my fault because I’m an educator.

I’m supposed to teach these kids how to READ, not form their moral codes, Jerusha. It is not.my.job. to keep them out of the sack with each other.

As a parent, it was my job to watch over MY children. I did that the best way I could.

And do NOT get me started about NCLB. That…thing…is about as stupid an idea as any group of idiots has ever come up with.

Do you realize that according to NCLB, by 2014 EVERY SINGLE STUDENT IN THE COUNTRY must be able to pass the state standardized tests and graduate from high school, ready to go to a four year college?

Did NCLB make any allowances for the kids who have IQ’s of 40? No. It did not. Did it make allowances for kids who are brain damaged, who are emotionally disabled–or who just want to fix cars (and thereby make a whole lot more money than I do!)??

No. It does not—and who is going to be penalized when we can’t get the kid who doesn’t know how to tie his own shoes to graduate from high school ready to attend Harvard?

Why, the teachers and the schools. That’s who.

Right now I am working (and doing a pretty good job, thank you very much) to get 14 year olds who can’t read beyond a 2nd grade level to read something on a 4th grade level–and somehow we are supposed to get these kids into four year universities?

GAAAHHHHHHHHHHH

‘slogging through waist high snow?’ yeah. It is…and the only reason that it’s making any progress at all is because we teachers have been struggling to reach standards and goals that are, quite frankly, impossible.

For little pay, and as you are pretty typical, worse appreciation.

Kids have sex and get pregnant out of wedlock? Jerusha, that is not the fault of the English teacher. If it’s your kid, it’s YOUR fault.

 

[dianaiad]

Some of the beliefs of the LDS:

• God’s home planet, Kolob, is at the center of our Galaxy, which all other stars rotate around. See Clark, J. Reuben Jr., “Behold the Lamb of God,” page 46, “Kolob, the Governor”

Problem, that, since Kolob is a star, not a planet, and God doesn’t live on that, either.But hey, why let something as minor as that get in the way of a good slam?

The Sun is a celestialized world, where its inhabitants are perfected. The Prophet Brigham Young taught in General Conference: "So it is with regard to the inhabitants of the sun. Do you think it is inhabited? I rather think it is. Do you think there is any life there? No question of it

Yeah, well Brigham was wrong, wasn’t he? Please notice; no 'thus saith the Lord" here in regard to inhabitants of the sun, but “I rather think it is.” Not exactly a ringing proclamation, that…

When Adam and Eve lived in the Garden of Eden, the Earth was closely orbiting Kolob, like God’s home planet. But when Adam and Eve fell, so did the Earth and it was hurled across the cosmos and placed in orbit around our sun in this planetary system

Now, if true, these are mighty strange beliefs. Question to the Mormons on this forum, are these truly some of the beliefs of the LDS?

“Now, if true?..” You mean you are admitting that they just might NOT be LDS beliefs? Wow, Ricko, I almost have hope for you. Because: Kolob is a star. God doesn’t live on it. Brigham wasn’t all that certain about people on the sun, and there is nothing anywhere (even you couldn’t come up with a quote…) that says that the earth was orbiting Kolob…

Hey. you have just confused yourself, come to think of it. You are claiming that we believe that the earth was orbiting Kolob, a planet–kinda like a moon or something?

Where do you GET this stuff?

 

[dianaiad]

**My dear friends,

Please understand that some are speaking of Mormons as being part of some organized religion.Not so, with no “God” and no Salvation possible (heaven is already filled with 144,000 male Jewish virgins) this is a cult, NOT a religion.**

Given that you seem to have us confused with someone else completely, I think that your judgment about our religious status is highly suspect. We’re not the ones who believe that heaven is already filled with 144,000 male Jewish virgins (come to think of it, does ANYBODY Believe that?)

My limited (Thank God!!!) experience with cults, is that they are of the mind that they know more, know better, and tend to hold some unusual positions. Nearly always they themselves are “god(s)”

(grin) Well, we seem to know a bit more about what our beliefs are than you do. 144,000–that’s the Jehovah’s Witnesses, not the Mormons. There is a difference…though I don’t THINK that the Jehovah’s Witnesses are dealing with 144,000 male Jewish virgins…

Mormons belief that when they die, they are reicarnated, get married, have kids, and their kids will adore them as “gods”. If this is so why do they have to wait until they die?

Y’know, I’ve been accused of not having a sense of humor. That must be true; it took me until now to realize that you are having us all on. Good one!

Still one has to give them credit to sticking to their beliefs and life style.

They need our prayers, because it is ONLY OUR GOD that can, that has the power, to convert them.

Love and prayers,

 

[dianaiad]

This is insane!! I can not believe that anyone would believe this! It sounds like scientology! I hope my husband does not believe this, if he knows this and still believes in this “religion” it really makes me think he was brain washed! All we can do is pray to God that he will hold the misled LDS people close to his heart because he knows they were very much misinformed! God is loving! He knew this would happen to his children, he warned about it ALL THE TIME! Pretty much all he did was tell us to not fall for the false prophets that will be on the earth! Remember how he told us that they would come to us in his name, but they were really false! The seer stone issue still freaks me out!

Alisha, Ricko hasn’t got a clue what LDS beliefs actually are.

Really.

 

[mfbukowski]

Some of the beliefs of the LDS:

• God’s home planet, Kolob, is at the center of our Galaxy, which all other stars rotate around. See Clark, J. Reuben Jr., “Behold the Lamb of God,” page 46, “Kolob, the Governor”

The Sun is a celestialized world, where its inhabitants are perfected. The Prophet Brigham Young taught in General Conference: "So it is with regard to the inhabitants of the sun. Do you think it is inhabited? I rather think it is. Do you think there is any life there? No question of it

When Adam and Eve lived in the Garden of Eden, the Earth was closely orbiting Kolob, like God’s home planet. But when Adam and Eve fell, so did the Earth and it was hurled across the cosmos and placed in orbit around our sun in this planetary system

Now, if true, these are mighty strange beliefs. Question to the Mormons on this forum, are these truly some of the beliefs of the LDS?

Do you even read the answers? I see no evidence of that. You repeat the same things over and over

 

[RebeccaJ]

Problem, that, since Kolob is a star, not a planet, and God doesn’t live on that, either.But hey, why let something as minor as that get in the way of a good slam?

Nah, Clark still claimed that Kolob is the center of the galaxy:

"There is some speculation as to whether the center or hub is in a spiral arm of the galaxy and that “the Large Cloud is a piece of spiral arm broken loose from our galaxy” (ibid., p. 48), and that probably “here we are looking along a spiral arm of our galaxy or toward a knot of stars in such an arm,” or whether, according to another theory, we ourselves are in such a spiral arm of our galaxy. (Ibid., p. 47; Colton, p. 418.)

We need not be troubled about this, as it seems inconsequential to our purpose. But the exact location of the hub or center is not important to our inquiry. It seems uniformly and presently conceded there is a hub, and that the entire galaxy revolves around it in determined times and at determined speeds; that stars in the hub are governing stars that control the galaxy; that apparently there are several of these stars working together either in a “huddle,” a “knot,” or group. The times of revolution of these is not suggested.

But this fact seems reasonably clear that this hub or center of a galaxy exists and performs, in broad principle, the functions of Kolob and that Kolob’s existence and function were known about four thousand years before our day."

Yeah, well Brigham was wrong, wasn’t he? Please notice; no 'thus saith the Lord" here in regard to inhabitants of the sun, but “I rather think it is.” Not exactly a ringing proclamation, that…

It doesn’t matter if it is doctrine or not. Mormons believe this sort of stuff, talk about, and build whole theories around it, as though it were indeed very factual and real.

“Now, if true?..” You mean you are admitting that they just might NOT be LDS beliefs? Wow, Ricko, I almost have hope for you. Because: Kolob is a star. God doesn’t live on it. Brigham wasn’t all that certain about people on the sun, and there is nothing anywhere (even you couldn’t come up with a quote…) that says that the earth was orbiting Kolob…

I suggest you find a copy of J Reuben Clark’s “Behold The Lamb Of God”, he goes to great length to explain how Kolob is the center of the galaxy and all of us, including the earth, are in orbit around this center point.

Hey. you have just confused yourself, come to think of it. You are claiming that we believe that the earth was orbiting Kolob, a planet–kinda like a moon or something?

Where do you GET this stuff?

From your leaders. The only thing he got wrong, was that Kolob is not the planet that your god lives on, it is the star nearest to the planet that your god lives on. And this, you well know, is in your scriptures and therefore is mormon doctrine.

 

[mfbukowski]

Alisha, Ricko hasn’t got a clue what LDS beliefs actually are.

Really.

Really honestly and truly. It’s like saying Catholics are cannibals because they eat flesh and blood. This guy is really… uh…wrong.

 

[Jerusha]

IMHO, Mormon cosmology is not a relevant subject. It has very little to do with why Mormons do what they do. It was only speculation by their early leaders, who were not rocket scientists.

 

[PJM]

Hi PJM

I am certainly not contending your contribution but what I have learned from many LDS members seems to indicate a slightly different set of beliefs. They are as follows:

Male Mormons believe they " CAN " ( NOT ALL WILL BE WORTHY ) reach Exaltation to become a God of their own Earth and with their previously sealed wife or wives have several " spirit children " to populate the Earth that they are God of.

Peace,
CJ

My dear friend in Christ,

Sincere thanks for the correction. I don’t have any LDS friends, so what I learn is second hand.

As a “ps.” God, capitol G, normally represents the Christian concept of GOD, while a small “g” is generally used for those who have many gods, or consider themselves as “god.”

God bless you, and again thank you!

 

[dianaiad]

Nah, Clark still claimed that Kolob is the center of the galaxy:

"There is some speculation as to whether the center or hub is in a spiral arm of the galaxy and that “the Large Cloud is a piece of spiral arm broken loose from our galaxy” (ibid., p. 48), and that probably “here we are looking along a spiral arm of our galaxy or toward a knot of stars in such an arm,” or whether, according to another theory, we ourselves are in such a spiral arm of our galaxy. (Ibid., p. 47; Colton, p. 418.)

We need not be troubled about this, as it seems inconsequential to our purpose. But the exact location of the hub or center is not important to our inquiry. It seems uniformly and presently conceded there is a hub, and that the entire galaxy revolves around it in determined times and at determined speeds; that stars in the hub are governing stars that control the galaxy; that apparently there are several of these stars working together either in a “huddle,” a “knot,” or group. The times of revolution of these is not suggested.

But this fact seems reasonably clear that this hub or center of a galaxy exists and performs, in broad principle, the functions of Kolob and that Kolob’s existence and function were known about four thousand years before our day."

And your problem with this is…what, precisely? We have a lawyer (J. Reuben Clark law school is one of the premier law schools in the country) whose book (posthumously published in 1962), and devoting a chapter to Kolob and cosmology. I don’t know about you, but the fact is, the galaxy DOES revolve around a ‘hub’…probably a supermasive black hole.

It doesn’t matter if it is doctrine or not. Mormons believe this sort of stuff, talk about, and build whole theories around it, as though it were indeed very factual and real.OF COURSE we do! It’s fun. But I have noticed that Catholics, Protestants and everybody else does the same thing. Elder Clark was an amazing man by anybody’s standards (see his bio here: lclark.edu/org/jrcls/biography.html ) he was a writer, an ambassador, under secretary of state…counselor to Heber J. Grant. All that is pretty amazing, but none of it makes him a cosmologist.

I suggest you find a copy of J Reuben Clark’s “Behold The Lamb Of God”, he goes to great length to explain how Kolob is the center of the galaxy and all of us, including the earth, are in orbit around this center point.

It’s a chapter in it, Rebecca…you’ll have to define ‘great lengths.’ As well, it is not exactly the Standard Works.

From your leaders. The only thing he got wrong, was that Kolob is not the planet that your god lives on, it is the star nearest to the planet that your god lives on. And this, you well know, is in your scriptures and therefore is mormon doctrine.

I have news for you, Rebecca, he didn’t get a single thing RIGHT, and although you get points for knowing that Kolob is a star (or group of stars, or birthplace of stars, or something…) and not a planet, you’re wrong too. Kolob is nearest the throne of God. Don’t see the word ‘planet’ in there at all.

It’s been awhile since you actually read the real source of Mormon Doctrine…the books we accept as SCRIPTURE, hasn’t it?

 

[dianaiad]

Really honestly and truly. It’s like saying Catholics are cannibals because they eat flesh and blood. This guy is really… uh…wrong.

No kidding. Y’know, I understand those who know what we believe and disagree with it. That’s at least fair–and there are plenty of those.

I don’t understand the mindset that things it is permissible to lie about what another group of people believes in order to discredit them. If the simple truth will not do that, then…???

Perhaps some rethinking should be in order?

 

[dianaiad]

IMHO, Mormon cosmology is not a relevant subject. It has very little to do with why Mormons do what they do. It was only speculation by their early leaders, who were not rocket scientists.

I’m quite certain that you didn’t mean this in a positive way, Jerusha, but you are nevertheless quite right. They weren’t rocket scientists. There ARE, by the way, quite a few Mormon rocket scientists…so I guess “Mormon cosmology” is only relevant where they publish; peer reviewed scientific journals.

 

[CJ_Nick]

My dear friend in Christ,

Sincere thanks for the correction. I don’t have any LDS friends, so what I learn is second hand.

As a “ps.” God, capitol G, normally represents the Christian concept of GOD, while a small “g” is generally used for those who have many gods, or consider themselves as “god.”

God bless you, and again thank you!

Hello again PJM

I thank you as well for the kind reply.

Yes, I realize that the cap G represents the Christian God concept, however, due to my many conversations with LDS folks regarding Joseph Smith’s King Follet Sermon, it was clear to me that their beliefs of Exaltation was indeed large G’s ( God ).

An iteresting side note: I had asked many times with no real answer to this ( if any of our LDS friends would like to contribute, I would kindly welcome further understanding ). If our God was once a man of an Earth before he became God of our Earth than the question begs " Who is our God’s God ??? And then who is his God?? and so on

At any rate, I remain very confused by this.

Peace,
CJ

 

[RebeccaJ]

It’s been awhile since you actually read the real source of Mormon Doctrine…the books we accept as SCRIPTURE, hasn’t it?

Diana, you seem to forget I was in the LDS CES for many years. I was taught these things, I don’t make them up. I understand quite well that the LDS church has filtered these sort of things out from CES. So, take it up with my old seminary teacher. I saw him a couple of years ago at my daughter’s jr. high, so I can tell you where to find him if you like.

And please, stop with the diversion of “our doctrine is scripture”. So what. Mormons teach and believe all kinds of craziness that is based on your scriptures. Mormons are not sola scriptura. All this teaching is doctrinally correct. Please, google Kolob at lds.org and there you will find teachings about what life is like on other planets. The completely blasphemous hymn “If You Could Hie To Kolob” and a whole bunch of other nonsense that you won’t find in your scriptures, but most certainly is considered to be doctrinally correct.

 

[RebeccaJ]

I have news for you, Rebecca, he didn’t get a single thing RIGHT, and although you get points for knowing that Kolob is a star (or group of stars, or birthplace of stars, or something…) and not a planet, you’re wrong too. Kolob is nearest the throne of God. Don’t see the word ‘planet’ in there at all.

It’s been awhile since you actually read the real source of Mormon Doctrine…the books we accept as SCRIPTURE, hasn’t it?

I don’t know Diana, are being dishonest on purpose or what?

From you SCRIPTURES, perhaps it has been a while since you read it.

D&C 130

6 The angels do not reside on a planet like this earth;
7 But athey reside in the bpresence of God, on a globe clike a dsea of glass and efire, where all things for their glory are manifest, past, present, and future, and are continually before the Lord.

  8  The place where God resides is a great a[Urim](http://scriptures.lds.org/en/dc/130/8a) and Thummim. 


  9  This a[earth](http://scriptures.lds.org/en/dc/130/9a), in its b[sanctified](http://scriptures.lds.org/en/dc/130/9b) and c[immortal](http://scriptures.lds.org/en/dc/130/9c) state, will be made like unto d[crystal](http://scriptures.lds.org/en/dc/130/9d) and will be a Urim and Thummim to the inhabitants who dwell thereon, whereby all things pertaining to an inferior kingdom, or all kingdoms of a lower order, will be manifest to those who dwell on it; and this earth will be e[Christ](http://scriptures.lds.org/en/dc/130/9e)’s.

 

[LAMBOFGODGIRLY]

I don’t know Diana, are being dishonest on purpose or what?

From you SCRIPTURES, perhaps it has been a while since you read it.

D&C 130

6 The angels do not reside on a planet like this earth;
7 But athey reside in the bpresence of God, on a globe clike a dsea of glass and efire, where all things for their glory are manifest, past, present, and future, and are continually before the Lord.

8 The place where God resides is a great aUrim and Thummim.

9 This aearth, in its bsanctified and cimmortal state, will be made like unto dcrystal and will be a Urim and Thummim to the inhabitants who dwell thereon, whereby all things pertaining to an inferior kingdom, or all kingdoms of a lower order, will be manifest to those who dwell on it; and this earth will be eChrist’s.

Oh my goodness!! Scary!!

 

[dianaiad]

Diana, you seem to forget I was in the LDS CES for many years. I was taught these things, I don’t make them up. I understand quite well that the LDS church has filtered these sort of things out from CES. So, take it up with my old seminary teacher. I saw him a couple of years ago at my daughter’s jr. high, so I can tell you where to find him if you like.

Now, Rebecca, if I had forgotten, I would have asked you if you had ever actually read the Standard Works, not how long it has been since you DID read them.

And please, stop with the diversion of “our doctrine is scripture”. So what. Mormons teach and believe all kinds of craziness that is based on your scriptures.

So do Catholics. I’ve heard some really weird things come out of Catholics, and there are some outlying Catholic groups that are, very different. As well, individual Catholics have different ideas about all sorts of things. However, I am not going to take the strange thing that Mrs. Santanya said and insist that ALL Catholics MUST believe this and teach it. I know better.

Mormons are not sola scriptura. All this teaching is doctrinally correct. Please, google Kolob at lds.org and there you will find teachings about what life is like on other planets. The completely blasphemous hymn “If You Could Hie To Kolob” and a whole bunch of other nonsense that you won’t find in your scriptures, but most certainly is considered to be doctrinally correct.

and you are still showing that you don’t understand the difference between doctrine and individual beliefs.