Mormon - Beliefs - A civil Discussion Please

[mfbukowski]

We’re used to it, too. Anti-Catholicism is the last acceptable prejudice.

But we took the heat for you on prop 8 didn’t we? We’re used to it. That’s why I exaggerated the “burning chapels” thing. Hasn’t happend yet, but it is coming.

 

[mfbukowski]

You’ve forgotten that Utah is not a democracy, but a theodemocracy.

jonathon

I wish you were right. Obviously it’s not.

 

[RebeccaJ]

And I thought swearing was not allowed on this forum. I guess it’s ok if it is Spanish.

Qué mierda de una vasija.

That is swearing. That’s what Diana is asserting was said. But no, what was said was:

La Iglesia es una cargo del excremento.

Which is in fact, not swearing.

 

[RebeccaJ]

…and in the south, nothing gets done without the approval of the Baptists: in the north-east nothing gets done without the approval of the Lutheran/Anglican block; in ANY part of the nation, little gets done without the approval of the largest block of voters. It’s called “democracy.” That’s how it is supposed to work.

A block of voters is not the same as a church hierarchy. We’re not talking a group of mormon voters, we’re talking your church, itself.

 

[dianaiad]

You’ve forgotten that Utah is not a democracy, but a theodemocracy.

jonathon

I’m sorry, but no. It is a state of the Union…one of these United States of America, and as such has the same form of government that the other states have; a representational democracy, or ‘republic.’

 

[dianaiad]

Diana, I like how because you believe it, it is so. While calling me a liar all at once.

acluutah.org/03legreport.htm

"Alcoholic Beverage Amendments: SB 153 Passed
As reported by the Salt Lake Tribune on February 3, 2003: “A few months ago, a select group of insiders began the politically perilous task of revamping Utah’s liquor laws. Three major interests were represented: the Utah Department of Alcoholic Beverage Control, the hospitality industry and The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

While the content of the liquor law amendments have been controversial and will have a significant impact on clubs and micro-breweries, ACLU constitutional concerns were based upon any violations of open meetings laws. **The public was concerned that no other religious or non-business public groups were invited to participate in the drafting of at least the basic concepts of the new law. **

Apparently in an effort to avoid the issue of illegal meetings, which the DABC has admitted to in the past, no more than two commissioners were ever present at these initial meetings. A GRAMA request for records revealed no explicit evidence of technical wrongdoing on the part of the DABC. The public, however, was once again less than inspired when apprised of the “process.”

As much as the Trib tried to twist this, Rebecca…and remember that the Salt Lake Tribune was begun as an antipathetic publication to the church and REMAINS that way (and yes, the SLT absolutely admits this and is proud of it) then it is interesting to note that even IT had to admit that the meetings were not illegal.

So.

Try again?

 

[dianaiad]

Qué mierda de una vasija.

That is swearing. That’s what Diana is asserting was said. But no, what was said was:

La Iglesia es una cargo del excremento.

Which is in fact, not swearing.

Of course.

And the moderators would be perfectly happy to have someone post a cartoon with the caption reading “Catholicism is a load of excrement.”

yup…I’m sure that would fly.

 

[dianaiad]

A block of voters is not the same as a church hierarchy. We’re not talking a group of mormon voters, we’re talking your church, itself.

You may be, but the fact is, Rebecca, that the church is NOT monolithic in terms of politics.

I repeat: Harry Reid.

Most Mormons aren’t even US citizens, never mind tied to Utah politics.

As well, Utah was, until the seventies, solidly Democrat–and it wasn’t the CHURCH that turned everybody Republican.

there are plenty of Mormons on either side of the aisle, whether you like that or not.

 

[ricko]

but from what I recall Joseph Smith was once a Mason

TRUE, the LDS confirms this FACT

and some of the symbols on the Mormon buildings have a Mason origin.

TRUE, the LDS confirms this FACT

And since JS was using seer stones before the BOM, the other symbols are related to the occult.

TRUE, Mormon history confirms JS using seer stones. Pentagram is a well known occult symbol.

Mercy me SKI, why would you have problems with the truth?

 

[jblake]

dianaiad;:

one of these United States of America, and as such has the same form of government that the other states have;

You do realise that at least four different forms of government are used by the various states that comprise the united states, don’t you?

jonathon

 

[LDSGuy]

the pentagram is found in some medieval CATHOLIC cathedrals, and was used in Christian (non-LDS) symbolism.

 

[RebeccaJ]

As much as the Trib tried to twist this, Rebecca…and remember that the Salt Lake Tribune was begun as an antipathetic publication to the church and REMAINS that way (and yes, the SLT absolutely admits this and is proud of it) then it is interesting to note that even IT had to admit that the meetings were not illegal.

So.

Try again?

How about you try reading it again?

 

[RebeccaJ]

You may be, but the fact is, Rebecca, that the church is NOT monolithic in terms of politics.

I repeat: Harry Reid.

Most Mormons aren’t even US citizens, never mind tied to Utah politics.

As well, Utah was, until the seventies, solidly Democrat–and it wasn’t the CHURCH that turned everybody Republican.

there are plenty of Mormons on either side of the aisle, whether you like that or not.

Diana, I live in UT. I KNOW what the politics are here.

You can pretend all you like, it doesn’t change the facts.

 

[ricko]

the pentagram is found in some medieval CATHOLIC cathedrals, and was used in Christian (non-LDS) symbolism.

Wonderful! I’ll look that up, you could save me some time if you would provide me with the links. I’m surprised you didn’t mention the Egyptian obelisk in St. Peters Square that was once used in the Roman circus.

 

[LDSGuy]

Wonderful! I’ll look that up, you could save me some time if you would provide me with the links. I’m surprised you didn’t mention the Egyptian obelisk in St. Peters Square that was once used in the Roman circus.

symboldictionary.net/pentagram-pentacle-pentangle-pentalpha/
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentagram#Christianity
religioustolerance.org/wic_pent.htm

There are a number of books on the subject, and it is definitely known that the pentagram was a Christian symbol, especially prominent in medieval Catholic culture. So it is not only an occult symbol as you claimed.

 

[dianaiad]

You do realise that at least four different forms of government are used by the various states that comprise the united states, don’t you?

jonathon

None of them are theocracies, m’friend.

Including Utah.

 

[dianaiad]

How about you try reading it again?

I did.

What part of ‘they weren’t illegal’ didn’t you get?

 

[dianaiad]

Diana, I live in UT. I KNOW what the politics are here.

You can pretend all you like, it doesn’t change the facts.

You live there. So do my children. So did I. You don’t like the Mormons. You don’t like the church. Your bias is such that you will grab any negative twist on anything LDS and spin it to worsted weight.

Your opinion (and the TRIB’s, for that matter) is not fact, but at least the SLT has to put the facts IN there, no matter how deeply buried under 'ifs," ‘buts’ and manipulation it is.

There were no illegal meetings.

 

[RebeccaJ]

You live there. So do my children. So did I. You don’t like the Mormons. You don’t like the church. Your bias is such that you will grab any negative twist on anything LDS and spin it to worsted weight.

Your opinion (and the TRIB’s, for that matter) is not fact, but at least the SLT has to put the facts IN there, no matter how deeply buried under 'ifs," ‘buts’ and manipulation it is.

There were no illegal meetings.

Your bias against non-Mormons is showing.

The Trib is inaccurate because you don’t like what it reports?

Read it again. There were illegal meetings, the DABC admitted it. To AVOID the legalities, they met secretly still, just made sure only one person was there.

I am certain mormons understand the difference between the letter and spirit of the law. What do you think the spirit of the law is, regarding closed door meetings? Clandestine hammer out legislation with one mormon, who takes it to all the other mormons, is still the mormon church dictating state law. No matter how you spin it.

 

[LAMBOFGODGIRLY]

Your local Orthodox Rabbi will be glad to point out the errors of your claims about what the Tanakh says. (FWIW, The Orthodox Judaism and The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints have very similar views on when abortion is allowable, and when it is not allowable.)

jonathon

Did you think I was Judist? We don’t have Orthodox Rabbi.