Mormon Beliefs

[August]

I know there are a million and one posts about Mormonism on this board, but I’m curious about what Mormons actually believe. You see, I’ve heard many beliefs Mormons have that seem strange. When I ask my Mormon friends about them, I don’t feel I get straight answers. Pro-Mormon websites don’t even acknowledge these beliefs. Anti-Mormon websites bring them up all the time. My point is, I don’t want to think that Mormons believe something unless they say they do. So, Mormons it is not my intention to attack your religion, but could you answer these questions:
Do Mormons believe in more than one God?
Do Mormons believe that God was once a man like us?
Do Mormons believe that devout believers can become Gods?
Do Mormons believe that Jesus and Satan were brothers?
Do Mormons believe that God has a physical body?
Do Mormons believe that God has a wife?
Finally, Do Mormons believe that we are judged in a pre-existance in which we are judged do determine our station in our mortal lives?
I hope that isn’t too much. These are all things I have heard from Anti-Mormons. If they are true, defend why. If they are not true, tell me where in Mormonism in says so.

 

[Baron_Holbach]

I know there are a million and one posts about Mormonism on this board, but I’m curious about what Mormons actually believe. You see, I’ve heard many beliefs Mormons have that seem strange. When I ask my Mormon friends about them, I don’t feel I get straight answers. Pro-Mormon websites don’t even acknowledge these beliefs. Anti-Mormon websites bring them up all the time. My point is, I don’t want to think that Mormons believe something unless they say they do. So, Mormons it is not my intention to attack your religion, but could you answer these questions:
Do Mormons believe in more than one God?
Do Mormons believe that God was once a man like us?
Do Mormons believe that devout believers can become Gods?
Do Mormons believe that Jesus and Satan were brothers?
Do Mormons believe that God has a physical body?
Do Mormons believe that God has a wife?
Finally, Do Mormons believe that we are judged in a pre-existance in which we are judged do determine our station in our mortal lives?
I hope that isn’t too much. These are all things I have heard from Anti-Mormons. If they are true, defend why. If they are not true, tell me where in Mormonism in says so.

One of the best Web sites that objectively studies Mormon issues is the Institute for Religious Research. An excellent link to answer your questions is here:
irr.org/MIT/Is-Mormonism-Christian.html

Father Neuhaus discusses the Mormon faith:

irr.org/MIT/Neuhaus.html

 

[zerinus]

Do Mormons believe in more than one God?

The answer to that question is no if you mean that they worship more than one God (either now or in eternity). We worship one God the Father, in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, both now and for the rest of eternity. But the answer is yes in the sense that we believe that man is deified in the process of gaining the fullness of salvation in the kingdom of God through the Atonement of Jesus Christ.

Do Mormons believe that God was once a man like us?

That has been taught in the past, but it has no scriptural foundation, and is no longer considered a valid doctrine of the LDS Church.

Do Mormons believe that devout believers can become Gods?

Yes, deification of man, as part of the salvific process, is a doctrines of the LDS Church, as it was of the ancient Christian Church.

Do Mormons believe that Jesus and Satan were brothers?

That is a bit of anti-Mormon sensationalism invented by the enemies of the Church to attack it. We believe that all men were created as spirits in the pre-existence before they were born on earth in the flesh. We believe that Satan and many other spirits that God had created at that time rebelled against Him and were cast out of His presence, and that is how came the devil and his angels. We believe that those spirits who rebelled and were cast out, were thus denied the privilege of being born on earth and being saved in the kingdom of God through the Atonement of Jesus Christ. We believe Jesus was also in the pre-existence one of the sons of God. But to say that Jesus and Satan are brothers is not true, because Satan has rebelled against God, and has been cast out and disowned by God, and is no longer “part f the family” if you like, and is not a “brother” or to anybody except to the evil spirit that followed him.

Do Mormons believe that God has a physical body?

Yes.

Do Mormons believe that God has a wife?

We do not know. That information has not been revealed.

Finally, Do Mormons believe that we are judged in a pre-existence in which we are judged do determine our station in our mortal lives?

I am not sure that “judged in the pre-existence” is the correct way to describe it. We believe that the circumstances into which we are born in this world has been determined to some degree by the way we conducted ourselves in the pre-existence.

I hope that isn’t too much. These are all things I have heard from Anti-Mormons. If they are true, defend why. If they are not true, tell me where in Mormonism in says so.

It would take to long to discuss each of these in detail in one post. I have given general answers to your questions. If you want to know more about any specific one, tell me which, and I will tell you more.

zerinus

 

[christianley]

The answer to that question is no if you mean that they worship more than one God (either now or in eternity). We worship one God the Father, in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, both now and for the rest of eternity. But the answer is yes in the sense that we believe that man is deified in the process of gaining the fullness of salvation in the kingdom of God through the Atonement of Jesus Christ.

That has been taught in the past, but it has no scriptural foundation, and is no longer considered a valid doctrine of the LDS Church.

Yes, deification of man, as part of the salvific process, is a doctrines of the LDS Church, as it was of the ancient Christian Church.

That is a bit of anti-Mormon sensationalism invented by the enemies of the Church to attack it. We believe that all men were created as spirits in the pre-existence before they were born on earth in the flesh. We believe that Satan and many other spirits that God had created at that time rebelled against Him and were cast out of His presence, and that is how came the devil and his angels. We believe that those spirits who rebelled and were cast out, were thus denied the privilege of being born on earth and being saved in the kingdom of God through the Atonement of Jesus Christ. We believe Jesus was also in the pre-existence one of the sons of God. But to say that Jesus and Satan are brothers is not true, because Satan has rebelled against God, and has been cast out and disowned by God, and is no longer “part f the family” if you like, and is not a “brother” or to anybody except to the evil spirit that followed him.

Yes.

We do not know. That information has not been revealed.

I am not sure that “judged in the pre-existence” is the correct way to describe it. We believe that the circumstances into which we are born in this world has been determined to some degree by the way we conducted ourselves in the pre-existence.

It would take to long to discuss each of these in detail in one post. I have given general answers to your questions. If you want to know more about any specific one, tell me which, and I will tell you more.

zerinus

Here again, denying that Mormons teach that God was once a man. We have shown you over and over again where Mormons teach this. There has been no official pronouncement from Salt Lake City saying Mormons don’t teach this. It is still in the Gospel Principles manual. It is taught on their own web site:

lds.org/library/display/0,4945,11-1-13-59,00.html

Look at the section entitled “After We Have Endured to the End.” It is right there. Here is the quote:

"The Prophet Joseph Smith taught: “When you climb up a ladder, you must begin at the bottom, and ascend step by step, until you arrive at the top; and so it is with the principles of the Gospel–you must begin with the first, and go on until you learn all the principles of exaltation. But it will be a great while after you have passed through the veil [died] before you will have learned them. It is not all to be comprehended in this world; it will be a great work to learn our salvation and exaltation even beyond the grave” (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 348).

This is the way our Heavenly Father became God. Joseph Smith taught: “It is the first principle of the Gospel to know for a certainty the character of God. . . . He was once a man like us; . . . God himself, the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth, the same as Jesus Christ himself did” (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pp. 345-46)."

This is quoted from their own manual – the one they use to teach new converts about the faith after they have been baptized. Zerinius is simply a liar.

 

[Tonks40]

Just curious - where in Scripture does it state that human souls pre-existed in Heaven?

 

[zerinus]

Here again, denying that Mormons teach that God was once a man. We have shown you over and over again where Mormons teach this. There has been no official pronouncement from Salt Lake City saying Mormons don’t teach this. It is still in the Gospel Principles manual. It is taught on their own web site:

lds.org/library/display/0,4945,11-1-13-59,00.html

Look at the section entitled “After We Have Endured to the End.” It is right there. Here is the quote:

"The Prophet Joseph Smith taught: “When you climb up a ladder, you must begin at the bottom, and ascend step by step, until you arrive at the top; and so it is with the principles of the Gospel–you must begin with the first, and go on until you learn all the principles of exaltation. But it will be a great while after you have passed through the veil [died] before you will have learned them. It is not all to be comprehended in this world; it will be a great work to learn our salvation and exaltation even beyond the grave” (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 348).

This is the way our Heavenly Father became God. Joseph Smith taught: “It is the first principle of the Gospel to know for a certainty the character of God. . . . He was once a man like us; . . . God himself, the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth, the same as Jesus Christ himself did” (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pp. 345-46)."

This is quoted from their own manual – the one they use to teach new converts about the faith after they have been baptized. Zerinius is simply a liar.

He had asked for a “Mormon” answer, and I gave him one. I am a Mormon. You can give him all the “anti-Mormon” answer you like, I don’t care.

zerinus

 

[christianley]

He had asked for a “Mormon” answer, and I gave him one. I am a Mormon. You can give him all the “anti-Mormon” answer you like, I don’t care.

zerinus

I was a Mormon for over 30 years of my adult life. You continually come to this board and deny that the LDS still teach that God was once a man. I did not take that from an anti-Mormon source, but quoted a Mormon source – the official LDS web site. It is clear from the current LDS web site and the current Gospel Principles manual that the LDS still teach this. Why must you continue to come to this board and lie about that teaching? And why do you think you can get away with it when many people have exposed your lying?

 

[adrift]

I don’t think it is very charitable to call someone a liar. He may not be. I understand that certain teachings of the “Mormon’s” are not revealed to their young until later in their lives. I am not sure when but I believe it is well into late teen years. I think people would be better debating without personnel attacks.

 

[christianley]

I don’t think it is very charitable to call someone a liar. He may not be. I understand that certain teachings of the “Mormon’s” are not revealed to their young until later in their lives. I am not sure when but I believe it is well into late teen years. I think people would be better debating without personnel attacks.

We have shown him this over and over and over again. He cannot deny the teaching because we have made it very clear to him in the past. The term “liar” is not a personal attack, but a description of what he is because by now he knows very well what the LDS teaches on its official web site and in its official manual for new members. I must have shown him that personally at least twice now and others have done so as well.

 

[zerinus]

I don’t think it is very charitable to call someone a liar. He may not be. I understand that certain teachings of the “Mormon’s” are not revealed to their young until later in their lives. I am not sure when but I believe it is well into late teen years. I think people would be better debating without personnel attacks.

Leave them alone. They are a bunch of apostates form the LDS Church, and they are at the end of their tether, and have no more valid arguments to bring against LDS, so they have nothing else left to do except to make personal attacks. It doesn’t affect me. It only backfires against them. Anybody who is genuinely interested in knowing the truth will see through that, and will only despise them. It doesn’t hurt the LDS position at all.

zerinus

 

[Baron_Holbach]

Leave them alone. They are a bunch of apostates form the LDS Church, and they are at the end of their tether, and have no more valid arguments to bring against LDS, so they have nothing else left to do except to make personal attacks. It doesn’t affect me. It only backfires against them. Anybody who is genuinely interested in knowing the truth will see through that, and will only despise them. It doesn’t hurt the LDS position at all.

zerinus

Who coined the phrase, “Lying for the Lord”?

trialsofascension.net/mormon/lying.html

home.teleport.com/~packham/lying.htm

mormonwiki.org/Lying_for_the_Lord

 

[christianley]

Leave them alone. They are a bunch of apostates form the LDS Church, and they are at the end of their tether, and have no more valid arguments to bring against LDS, so they have nothing else left to do except to make personal attacks. It doesn’t affect me. It only backfires against them. Anybody who is genuinely interested in knowing the truth will see through that, and will only despise them. It doesn’t hurt the LDS position at all.

zerinus

So do you deny what the LDS Church teaches on its own web site? It really couldn’t get much clearer than what I have presented. Do you still insist that the LDS Church no longer teach that God was once a man when I have shown you repeatedly what the LDS Church presents on its own web site as the teaching of the LDS Church?

 

[Tonks40]

Just curious - where in Scripture does it state that human souls pre-existed in Heaven?

No one has answered my question.

 

[VWcrazy]

It doesn’t hurt the LDS position at all.

What hurts the LDS position is the LDS.

 

[Prayer_Warrior]

Interesting answer, Zerinus, regarding the number one question. So, you admit to being henotheistic rather than monotheistic? That is the first time I have ever seen an LDS admit the truth, although it was in a rather roundabout way. Henotheists worship one God, while not denying the existence of other gods. Monotheists worship one God, and deny the existence of any other gods. Most LDS insist they are monotheistic. However, this is not possible if you believe in the deification of man as “part of the salvific process” or if you believe that Jesus Christ is a separate God from the Father.

 

[christianley]

What hurts the LDS position is the LDS.

I don’t agree. Many LDS would be very upfront about their teachings. It does seem like the ones that come to this board don’t take that tact, but most of the LDS I know would defend the teaching that God was once a man and that God had a Father God. It’s not as if this teaching hasn’t been around for all the members to know for years. They teach it to their new converts after they are baptized. I don’t know why the LDS who come here feel the need to lie about it. Perhaps the ones who don’t come here are smart enough to avoid a discussion about it.

 

[Erich]

Yes, deification of man, as part of the salvific process, is a doctrines of the LDS Church, as it was of the ancient Christian Church.

If by “deification” you mean the Holy Spirit dwelling within Christian believers and transforming them into the image of God in Christ, eventually endowing them in the resurrection with immortality and God’s perfect moral character, then yes, that is what many of the Church Fathers taught (though you’re more likely to see it referred to as “theosis” not “deification”).

But to claim that it was a doctrine of the ancient Christian Church that God created or redeemed man in order for man to go on to become gods and rulers of their own universes is a bit of a stretch, to say the least.

 

[August]

Zerinus, thanks for at least addressing these issues. As I mentioned, most Mormons I know won’t even talk about them.
Give the guy some credit.

 

[PaulDupre]

We have shown him this over and over and over again. He cannot deny the teaching because we have made it very clear to him in the past. The term “liar” is not a personal attack, but a description of what he is because by now he knows very well what the LDS teaches on its official web site and in its official manual for new members. I must have shown him that personally at least twice now and others have done so as well.

It has been my experience, both in my own life and in dealing with Mormons since I left the Mormon church, that the ones who, like Zerinus, are ashamed of the teachings of the LDS prophets are on their way out of the church. It is just a matter of time until Z realizes that the church he believes in does not exist.

Mormon prophets and apostles have always believed and taught the shameful doctrines that he denies. And they still do. Zerinus just doesn’t want to believe it because he knows in his rational mind and in his heart that those doctrines are false.

But he is just a kid. Give him time. The fact that he is drawn here to debate these Mormon teachings is a very healthy sign. The kid is a thinker, and a rather good one at that (for a kid). He will eventually read and debate himself right out of the LDS church.

God bless him,
Paul

 

[christianley]

It has been my experience, both in my own life and in dealing with Mormons since I left the Mormon church, that the ones who, like Zerinus, are ashamed of the teachings of the LDS prophets are on their way out of the church. It is just a matter of time until Z realizes that the church he believes in does not exist.

Mormon prophets and apostles have always believed and taught the shameful doctrines that he denies. And they still do. Zerinus just doesn’t want to believe it because he knows in his rational mind and in his heart that those doctrines are false.

But he is just a kid. Give him time. The fact that he is drawn here to debate these Mormon teachings is a very healthy sign. The kid is a thinker, and a rather good one at that (for a kid). He will eventually read and debate himself right out of the LDS church.

God bless him,
Paul

I agree. That’s what started it for me. I started arguing that certain LDS doctrines were only folk doctrines which could be ignored. Among the doctrines I argued against were the LDS rejection of the Trinity and the idea that God was once a man. I even had a web site arguing this on behalf of the LDS! But here I am, 10 years later, a happy Catholic!