Mormon Beliefs

[Chris-WA]

Well, I’m NOT an apostate ex-mormon and I can tell you that every mormon you talk to will give you conflicting information.
Their “doctrines” are constantly changing and getting a straight answer out of any of them about anything is like pulling teeth.
They are very nice people but with all the education that a lot of them have, they do not seem to put it to use in thinking and investigating their “religion” for themselves.

Very true and very well said. LDS are the nicest, most patriotic, most commitedly religious people I know. They have the best missionary program and religious education programs.

But the problem isn’t the way they practice their religion, it’s simpy the theology of the religion itself. And yes, every Mormon you talk to will give you conflicting information because teachings constantly change over the years. Try asking a 70 year-old LDS and a 30 year-old LDS the same question and you will most likely get very different answers becuase they were taught different things. The older Mormon will be quite familiar with, and will support, the more controversial teachings of the LDS church which the church has so subtley abandoned (or simply stopped talking about) in recent years. The 30 year-old will likely not be aware of those earlier teachings. Mormons do not have a single church-approved book they can turn to for doctrinal issues like we have with the Catechism. I don’t think they would ever want to produce one either because that would once and for all set down upon paper what they really officially teach, and it’s hard to change it once it’s on paper.

Regardless, most LDS young and old talk in circles because it always comes down to their burning in the bosom. It’s their last-ditch defense on any subject. Most simply accept everything they are taught without question. Thinking for yourself is not encouraged–just ask all those BYU professors who have either been fired or reprimanded every time they try to talk about something the leaders in Salt Lake don’t want people to explore.

 

[chasjohn]

Do Mormons believe that God has a physical body?

Here is a list of scriptures showing that God has a body. Click on a reference and it will take you to the scripture:
scriptures.lds.org/en/tg/g/60

 

[chasjohn]

Do Mormons believe that devout believers can become Gods?

Here is a list of scriptures that show that man can become like God. Click on a reference and it will take you to he text of the scripture.
scriptures.lds.org/en/tg/m/29

 

[JonathanKinsman]

Here is a list of scriptures showing that man had a pre-mortal existence. Just click on the reference and you will be taken to the scripture.

scriptures.lds.org/en/tg/m/25

Tonk40,

Quick, quick ! Go to this link, get out any current mainstream English translation of the Bible and read these Mormon morsels IN CONTEXT.

The first one (italics are theirs):

**Num 27:16 is listed as "God of the spirits of all flesh."

And what does this passage REALLY say?

“Then Moses said to the Lord, "May the Lord, God of the spirits of all mankind, set over the community a man who shall act as their leader in all things, to guide them in all their actions:…”

Of course, the Mormons never mention (they probably don’t know basic Greek, Aramaic and Hebrew idiomatic expressions) that “spirits of all mankind” is a trope for “everyone,” or “all souls everywhere,” or “people.”

Notice on this link how these nefarious wanna be exegetes italicize key words to show a progression to the unlettered (most young Mormons) in TRADITIONAL biblical history and translations and understanding.

chasjohn is doing us Christians a BIG favor with these links.

Zerinus would never pull the curtains back, but now we are getting a glimpse of the “wizard of Odds” in action.

You go chasjohn!

Pax Christi

 

[zerinus]

Could you provide evidence for this? Strictly in terms of defining what the Church believes, we have the Catechism which spells everything out.

There is evidence of the Catholic Church changing its doctrine. One example that came up during my discussions with Nan S in the thread called “any Mormons out there?” relates to the nature of infant salvation. The Catholic Church once upon a time taught that infants need to be baptized to wash away their “original sin;” and that without such baptism they could not be saved. In more recent times however, the Catholic Church has revised its teachings on that, and teaches in its catechism that unbaptized infants who die in infancy can be saved. For the evidence and discussion I refer to these posts:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=1847532&postcount=626
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=1847565&postcount=627
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=1851949&postcount=650
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=1852053&postcount=651

As I mentioned before, when I ask Mormons about their beliefs, they usually don’t want to talk about it in depth. “We’re Christians” is typical “brush off” response I’ve gotten when asking many of the questions with which I started this thread.

As I said, there are several possible reasons for this. One reason is that they are not knowledgeable enough about the theology of their religion to feel confident to discuss it. Another possible explanation is that their experience teaches them that when people ask them those kinds of questions, it is usually to criticise it, and they have had enough of that, and don’t want to talk about it! And I don’t blame them either!

zerinus

 

[chasjohn]

Do Mormons believe in more than one God?

We believe in a Godhead, consisting of the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost.
Here is a list of scriptures describing the Godhead. Click on a reference and it will take you to the text of the scripture.
scriptures.lds.org/en/tg/g/85

 

[Chris-WA]

As for the belief that God was once a man. I do remember learning that sometime throughout my years in the church. I believe it coincides with our belief that we can all become like God in an eternal life/eternal progression type setting. I also don’t feel a need to apologize for this belief as it causes no harm to anyone.

Thank you for your honesty, and I would ask you to explore this concept a little deeper, because where it ultimately leads defies everything we know of God from the bible. If God was once a man, than that means he wasn’t always God. Right there this becomes a huge problem because now we have to say that God was a created being. That means he had another god above him, and so on and so on. If this is your idea of Heavenly Father, than you and I do not worship the same god. God is either the eternal creator of the entire universe, or he is just one in a long line of man-gods who each created something less. For us the idea of God is quite simple. He is the only God for all eternity. He was never created. He has no beginning and no end. He is the creator of everything else. The rift in belief between Mormons and most other Christians on this issue is a very serious one indeed, and certainly worthy of deeper consideration.

Incidentally, I don’t know if you’ve ever read the transcript of Larry King’s TV interview with President Gordon B. Hinkley, but in it Hinkley is asked if the LDS church teaches that God was once a man. President Hinkley basically flat out denies that the church ever taught this doctrine. Try looking it up for yourself.

 

[JonathanKinsman]

Here is a list of scriptures showing that God has a body. Click on a reference and it will take you to the scripture:

scriptures.lds.org/en/tg/g/60

Mormons are literal minded when it suits them.

The old rookie mistake of “created in God’s image,” which is from the LATIN translation of St Jerome is better understood in its later Hebrew re-translation (at Jamnia in 90 AD) as “shadow.”

Thus, created in God’s shadow is created specially with a “soul” that is not just the animal soul mentioned in Genesis, but one that has knowledge of its Creator and is able to exercise Free Will.

To a Mormon, it means God looks like an Aryan of Teutonic ancestry or another white American. (Maybe with one of those amish type beards that were all the rage in Utah in the mid 1800s)

These are the kind of things that Mormon posters ignore when we use their own links/resources to question that goofy pantheology about

Eternal Progression
(Yes, you too can be a god of your own planet!)

**Polygamy **
(Hey, if you’re man enough to handle more than one wife, then Mormonism is the Belief System tailor-made for you!)

and

The Curse of Cain
(the local god says we’re special, and everyone here (in Nauvoo) is light skinned, so…)

 

[zerinus]

That is a dodge. . . .

No dodge! That question was answered in the very post that I had linked to. If you can’t see that, then it will not be worth my efforts to discuss it any further with you.

zerinus

 

[adrift]

No dodge! That question was answered in the very post that I had linked to. If you can’t see that, then it will not be worth my efforts to discuss it any further with you.

zerinus

Adrift,

This is Zerinus-doublespeak for

“OOPS! I caught lying about official Mormon doctrine again!”

You caught him lying, I’ve caught him lying, every Christian on these threads has caught him lying.

We know he is intellectually challenged because he uses the same old "I’ve said it before (gives a link which says “I’ve said it before”) and you’re not interested in this question about Mormon doctrine (id est, “I can’t admit what a load of hooey Mormon doctrine is”) so I’m gonna ignore you too. Neener neener.

It’s Mormon Apologetics 101.

Pax Christi

:yup: :yup: :yup:

 

[JonathanKinsman]

No dodge! That question was answered in the very post that I had linked to. If you can’t see that, then it will not be worth my efforts to discuss it any further with you.

zerinus

Bingo! You got him again, adrift. Zerinus CANNOT answer any direct question.

He references links that claim to have answered it on prior threads. He is disingenuous at best, but he is consistent (the hobgoblin of little minds according to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

 

[JonathanKinsman]

We believe in a Godhead, consisting of the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost.

Here is a list of scriptures describing the Godhead. Click on a reference and it will take you to the text of the scripture.
scriptures.lds.org/en/tg/g/85

This is the ANSWER to August’s question:

“Do Mormons believe in more than one God?”

A direct answer would have been “Yes” or “No.”

But the proper Mormon answer given by chasjohn deflects the admission of the multiple god (pantheology) doctrine of Mormonism with the bland, Christian sounding,“We believe in a Godhead.”

The true answer?

Every planet has a Godhead (3 in 1 god) just like Earth.

That is the question’s Mormon answer.

 

[JonathanKinsman]

HERE IT IS ZERINUS

[This is the way our Heavenly Father became God. Joseph Smith taught: “It is the first principle of the Gospel to know for a certainty the character of God. . . . He was once a man like us; . . . God himself, the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth, the same as Jesus Christ himself did” (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pp. 345-46).]

Straight from the LDS website

lds.org/library/display/0…-13-59,00.html

Hey Zerinus !

---

---

Hey chasjohn !

---

This contradicts your printed statements denying Mormons believe God was NOT a man!

**Mormon Eternal Progression: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: **

 

[Allweather]

Another possible explanation is that their experience teaches them that when people ask them those kinds of questions, it is usually to criticise it, and they have had enough of that, and don’t want to talk about it! And I don’t blame them either!

zerinus

If they were Christians who had a saving knowledge of God, indwelt by the REAL Holy Ghost, they’d never ever get tired of talking about it, and would never shy away from a conversation where they could speak of God’s love.

They are embarrassed by a religion that can’t be defended, and one which doesn’t lead them “beside the still waters.” That’s why they have “had enough of that, and don’t want to talk about it.” What a shame!

 

[zerinus]

They are embarrassed by a religion that can’t be defended, . . .

I reckon I can do a pretty good job of defending it.

zerinus

 

[JonathanKinsman]

Hey Zerinus! You really boned out of that other thread when Allweather and I started talking about God and the lack of comment by you about Him.

How come, buddy???

 

[Catholic_Dude]

Mormons are literal minded when it suits them.

The old rookie mistake of “created in God’s image,” which is from the LATIN translation of St Jerome is better understood in its later Hebrew re-translation (at Jamnia in 90 AD) as “shadow.”

Thus, created in God’s shadow is created specially with a “soul” that is not just the animal soul mentioned in Genesis, but one that has knowledge of its Creator and is able to exercise Free Will.

To a Mormon, it means God looks like an Aryan of Teutonic ancestry or another white American. (Maybe with one of those amish type beards that were all the rage in Utah in the mid 1800s)

I have encountered this veres in the past, the way I see it is simply to read the WHOLE verse:
So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them. Gen 1:27
Notice how it ends with “male AND female” in the context…this is an indication the “image” is in reference to spiritual matters, the soul, not physical as in a body. If you were to take it as physical that would mean God is male and female

 

[mark_a]

The answer to that question is no if you mean that they worship more than one God (either now or in eternity). We worship one God the Father, in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, both now and for the rest of eternity. But the answer is yes in the sense that we believe that man is deified in the process of gaining the fullness of salvation in the kingdom of God through the Atonement of Jesus Christ.

That has been taught in the past, but it has no scriptural foundation, and is no longer considered a valid doctrine of the LDS Church.

Yes, deification of man, as part of the salvific process, is a doctrines of the LDS Church, as it was of the ancient Christian Church.

That is a bit of anti-Mormon sensationalism invented by the enemies of the Church to attack it. We believe that all men were created as spirits in the pre-existence before they were born on earth in the flesh. We believe that Satan and many other spirits that God had created at that time rebelled against Him and were cast out of His presence, and that is how came the devil and his angels. We believe that those spirits who rebelled and were cast out, were thus denied the privilege of being born on earth and being saved in the kingdom of God through the Atonement of Jesus Christ. We believe Jesus was also in the pre-existence one of the sons of God. But to say that Jesus and Satan are brothers is not true, because Satan has rebelled against God, and has been cast out and disowned by God, and is no longer “part f the family” if you like, and is not a “brother” or to anybody except to the evil spirit that followed him.

Yes.

We do not know. That information has not been revealed.

I am not sure that “judged in the pre-existence” is the correct way to describe it. We believe that the circumstances into which we are born in this world has been determined to some degree by the way we conducted ourselves in the pre-existence.

It would take to long to discuss each of these in detail in one post. I have given general answers to your questions. If you want to know more about any specific one, tell me which, and I will tell you more.

zerinus

Thanks for your straightforward answers. It is nice to have simple, specific questions answered in a non-sarcastic way that don’t require one to wade through info we haven’t asked for.

 

[zerinus]

Thanks for your straightforward answers. It is nice to have simple, specific questions answered in a non-sarcastic way that don’t require one to wade through info we haven’t asked for.

Thank you Mark. You are very welcome.

zerinus

 

[zerinus]

I have encountered this veres in the past, the way I see it is simply to read the WHOLE verse:
So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them. Gen 1:27
Notice how it ends with “male AND female” in the context…this is an indication the “image” is in reference to spiritual matters, the soul, not physical as in a body. If you were to take it as physical that would mean God is male and as female

If that were true, God would have to be gender-neutral. He could be addressed as either male or female. But He isn’t! Throughout the Bible God is presented as male only, never female. Jesus addressed God as His Father, not as His Mother! Another possible explanation for that verse is that God has a female counterpart—in the same way that the word “man” is used in the Bible in a generic sense, meaning both men and women.

zerinus