God is only talked about as “He” to indicate His personal nature as opposed to talking about God as an “it.”If that were true, God would have to be gender-neutral. He could be addressed as either male or female. But He isn’t! Throughout the Bible God is presented as male only, never female. Jesus addressed God as His Father, not as His Mother! Another possible explanation for that verse is that God has a female counterpart—in the same way that the word “man” is used in the Bible in a generic sense, meaning both men and women.
zerinus
Please understand that Zerinus is a child. He has not yet been initiated into the Mormon “mysteries” - he has only been given the “milk”, not the “meat”. So like all Mormon children, he has a sanitized, flowers-and-fuzzy-bunnies view of Mormonism. That will change as he grows older. Trust me, a young man who is that inquisitive will learn his way out of Mormonism. I wish I could be there when the breakthrough to spiritual freedom occurs.I am glad you can see into my mind but I got news for you you can’t.
I have LDS friends and they say that you are wrong. When missionaries came they said the same thing that Joseph Smith is quoted as saying and they also said there was a progression of gods. So something isn’t right. Like I said my friend said that it is not taught until later. Please give a reference where this teaching was denied and that Joseph Smith was wrong.
This is what I thought also as it is what was told to me by my LDS friend.Please understand that Zerinus is a child. He has not yet been initiated into the Mormon “mysteries” - he has only been given the “milk”, not the “meat”. So like all Mormon children, he has a sanitized, flowers-and-fuzzy-bunnies view of Mormonism. That will change as he grows older. Trust me, a young man who is that inquisitive will learn his way out of Mormonism. I wish I could be there when the breakthrough to spiritual freedom occurs.
God love him,
Paul
yet we can show from LDS publications that LDS prophets and apostles have conssitently taught this. It is NOT personal speculation. Joseph Smith taught that it was essential to salvation and even more so to exaltation. That is still found in LDs lesson manuals.Could someone define ‘god’? Please note I am not asking for the definition of ‘God’. The answer to this question predicates the response to the question, well, in question.
Do Mormons believe God was once a man like us? The answer is some do, some don’t. But then this belief has nothing to do with our salvation.
that is NOT LDS doctrine. works are vital to salvation. Further LDS make distinction between salvation and exaltation.Our salvation is solely a product of our faith in Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior.
now I’ll give you that. I respect your personal opinion even when I disagree. thank you for sharing.Do ‘I’ believe he was like us? No, not like us. I do believe he experienced the world in such a manner that he can associate with our travails in a very real manner. This is a mystery to me.
LDS doctrine teaches that we are LITERAL offspring of Elohim. Thus his wives are our mothers. a REading of D&C 132 indicates this THE most important item in our exaltation since only those who are married in the LDS temple can possibly qualify for the highest degree of celestial glory.Does God have a Wife? Yes, he has significant other. Wait, let me rephrase that, yes, he has an eternal companion whom we would identify as female. Again, does this belief or disbelief affect our salvation? No.
but it must be important since it is covered in detail in the the Temple endowment. if it was unimportant then it wouldn’t be there.Where Jesus and Satan Brothers? Sorry Zerenus, she used the past tense. Yes. Jesus was the first born of the Father. As John says, all power was granted to the word who was with the word from the beginning, and by whom was all things made. Jesus is Jehovah of the Old Testament. He is the Eternal Father spoken thereof (since he has no bearing in space, all time, past, present, and future being in his person). Satan was also a son of God. God the Father’s plan was to send his children to the Earth so they might have joy. He knew we would sin, so he asked the First Born to make this sacrifice. Satan, wanted to take Jesus’ place, AND retain the glory. God the Father said, Nah, I like my first plan better, and Satan rebelled. Again, is this important to our salvation? No.
let’s be specific. LDS doctrine has been and still is that your works in the preexistence determine your “placement” on earth. The controversy has been just what that means. most agree that those born LDS today were the “best” and thus “qualify” for that great blessing. The most controversial has been regarding Black people. When they were not allowed the priesthood or the temple the curse of Cain was taught openly and it was taught that folks born into that situation must have done something to put them in that situation. The exact wording has changed over the years to be politically correct but any way you slice it, LDS teach predestination for each Spirit based on their experience in the preexistence.they also teach that some lineages were cursed by God. Therefore some spirits deserved to be born into cursed families. the rest is mostly speculation but the fact that apostles and prophets engaged in that in an embarrassing manner is disturbing to some.Regarding the preexistence, the only Judgement involved those who chose to side with Satan and were cast out. There was an active theory in the church for many years involving fence sitters. The Prophets of the Church have very adamantly stated this is false doctrine. Bruce R. McKonkie, an Apostle even taught this in Mormon Doctrine. The President of the Church told him it was false doctrine and Bruce had it removed from future editions. As Zerenis said, our state hear has some determination based on our own persona. God does have a plan.
Anyway, this is all quite sensational doctrine. But none of it involves are salvation.
Maybe, maybe not, but isn’t it still important to believe the correct thing? Whether the God you worship is the only God or is one of many gods ruling their own universes is a critical thing to know! We should all try to be correct in everything we believe, not just the most important thing.Anyway, this is all quite sensational doctrine. But none of it involves are salvation.
It’s worse than that. The LDS teach that their god did not create the universe, but merely “organized already-existing matter”. In Mormonism, the universe of matter is really the only thing that is eternal. All of their “gods” arose from the already-existing matter of the universe. They began as “intelligences” and evolved over eons into spirits, then humans, then gods.If God was once a man, than that means he wasn’t always God. Right there this becomes a huge problem because now we have to say that God was a created being. That means he had another god above him, and so on and so on. If this is your idea of Heavenly Father, than you and I do not worship the same god. God is either the eternal creator of the entire universe, or he is just one in a long line of man-gods who each created something less.
WADEMANN: is this your opinion that the doctrines of the Catholic church are constantly changing or do you have facts? Give me a break! If anything constantly changes it is the LDS Church!wademann;1936664]]Well, I’m NOT an apostate ex-catholic and I can tell you that every catholic you talk to will give you conflicting information.
Their “doctrines” are constantly changing and getting a straight answer out of any of them about anything is like pulling teeth.
They are very nice people but with all the education that a lot of them have, they do not seem to put it to use in thinking and investigating their “religion” for themselves.
Its what makes God…well God!please prove ex nihilo
a friendly reminder, that the church authorities warn that the general membership is not to represent church policies and doctrines in public forums.He had asked for a “Mormon” answer, and I gave him one. I am a Mormon. You can give him all the “anti-Mormon” answer you like, I don’t care.
zerinus
But there is no proof from the biblical text that that is the reason why God is addressed by means of the personal pronoun “He”. On the contrary, all the appearances of God in the OT as well as in the NT (of which there are quite a few) indicate that He is male, not female or neutral. Jesus, who was the very embodiment of God, and the “express image of His Father’s person,” was male, not female or neutral. On the other hand, there is no reason why “personality” could not be indicated by “it”. In the English language it is permissible to address babies as “it,” because their gender is not always immediately obvious. That does not mean that they do not have a “personal nature”.God is only talked about as “He” to indicate His personal nature as opposed to talking about God as an “it.”
That was indicated in the verse that you had quoted. Let’s analyze it more carefully:Further there is no support for your claim of a female god as you appear to be proposing as a possibility.
zerinus wrote, “. . . what he thinks is LDS website most likely isn’t.”I had asked that question from adrift, not from you. He appears to be very uninformed about LDS, and what he thinks is LDS website most likely isn’t. As far as your specific comment is concerned, I am not going to address it because it has been addressed before, and you are very well aware of that fact.
zerinus
Your “friendly reminder” is noted. Thank you for giving me the opportunity to inform the members of this forum that I am not here as an “official representative” of the LDS Church. I post here in a private capacity only, and am the only one that is responsible for what is said here by me. I am not speaking officially on behalf of the Church. (And I think that forum members already understand that.) Your comments about “contention” are also noted. It would indeed be inappropriate for a member of the Church to be influenced by a spirit of contention. At the same time, I should remind you that I do not take my orders from apostates or would be apostates. I have read your profile and previous postings, and it is clear to me from what you have said that you have already apostatized from the Church, or are in the process of doing so. Well, if it is your intention to apostatize from the Church, then I suggest that you put yourself out of your own misery and do it quickly, and refrain in the future from telling the priesthood holders of the Church what to do.a friendly reminder, that the church authorities warn that the general membership is not to represent church policies and doctrines in public forums.
since you are not a member of the council of the twelve or any other such ‘set-apart’ group you may wish to counsel with your bishopric or stake presidency before you take it upon yourself to place yourself in a position of contention.
She does? How amazing! Care to tell me about it?respectfully submitted by one who knows.
August,
Also, the Catholic church seems to be shrouded in secrecy as well. Truthfully I would think that, in general, people would consider the Catholic church to be the one harboring the most secrets.
Could you specify what you think Catholics are keeping secret? Maybe we could clarify some of those issues for you.
The Catholic Church is very open and honest and we are not afraid to evangelize the truth of our beliefs in fear of chastisement. It comes with the course…Christ was persecuted an so is his Church. If you have any questions, I am sure they can be answered on this thread or in the apologetics forum.
My first response was that you defend it about as well as it can be defended, but I decided that that isn’t true. You really don’t do a very good job of defending your religion, and here’s why:I reckon I can do a pretty good job of defending it.
zerinus
Yeah, I can remember the first time I actually heard this explained by Mormons to me. About a decade ago my wife’s home teachers were over for their monthly visit and they started talking about eternal matter and how God “organized” it. You should have seen the look on my face. Up until that point in my life it was truly the most bizarre thing I had ever heard–that matter itself was eternal and was somehow floating about the universe and then a created god came along and formed it into what we see today. Total utter nonsense–truly the product of a man-made religion. The first thought in my mind was how could my wife actually believe this? But if you’re brought up with it from day one and your parents have you bearing your testimony starting around the age of three by whispering what to say to the congregation into your ear, I guess by the time you’re an adult nothing about it would seem strange at all.It’s worse than that. The LDS teach that their god did not create the universe, but merely “organized already-existing matter”. In Mormonism, the universe of matter is really the only thing that is eternal. All of their “gods” arose from the already-existing matter of the universe. They began as “intelligences” and evolved over eons into spirits, then humans, then gods.