Mormon Bishops - an exclusive club?

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eddie_too said:
in what context did Jesus us teach us the concept that marriage ends at the death of one of the spouses?

remember the situation the pharisees created in an attempt to trap Jesus?

the man who had six brothers, each of whom married the same woman after a brother already married to the woman died?

the presented this scenario and then asked Jesus whose wife she would be after the resurrection of the dead.
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yes…because she had so many, they asked to whom she would belong in heaven. Jesus said no one is GIVEN in heaven.

That does not speak to those who do not need to be given because they are already married.
 
the woman Jesus spoke of was married to all seven brothers in this life. whose wife would she be in the next life? that is the question posed to Jesus. His answer was that she would be the wife of NONE of the brothers.
 
iepuras said:
I believe that in heaven, my husband and I will have a special relationship with each other but it won’t be like earthly marriage. We will remember our works in this life, including our married life. Yes, our natures will be changed. We will not change them. God will change our natures so that we can participate in his divine nature and life.
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That’s a beautiful way of seeing things, iepuras. The relationship and closeness stay, even though our mortal human constructs like marriage fall away? I can see the appeal.

I can appreciate the Catholic view of our place in heaven. I have, ever since reading CS Lewis’ last Narnia book where everyone dies and goes there.
 
NeuroTypical said:
Well, iepuras, I’m raising two daughters. I hear your experiences. Because of what you’re saying here, I’ll put forth extra effort to make sure neither daughter is taught such depressing nonsense, and I’m sorry that so many in your circle believed it.

The LDS notion that you can stay married to your beloved spouse for eternity, rather than parting ways at death, is comforting and desirable. Such a notion demands answers to the ‘what if’ questions, but I have better answers than you internalized.

Catholics figure you don’t stay married after death, correct? From what I’ve been told by Catholics, as created beings, we just change our natures to something else where our earthly ties to our spouses just aren’t really meaningful to us any more. Being in God’s presence and worshiping Him face to face sort of makes everything else just go away. Have I been told correctly?
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The Sacraments are fulfilled in heaven, not made meaningless. (Matrimony is a Sacrament.) We don’t change natures. That is a belief unique to Mormonism.
 
TexanKnight said:
not giving is different than already having.

I saw no teaching in the Bible that says already people will not stay married. I just saw that there will be no new marriages in heaven

And as to need in heaven, there is no NEED to have a spouse now. I can;t imagine God taking back such a precious gift He has alreadys thevOrthodox given me.
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The institution of marriage does not exist in heaven, is Catholic doctrine. The love between you and your wife transcends, is perfected, in heaven, not dissolved. Christian Marriage and family, the domestic church, is a grace and a sign of the heavenly banquet to come.

There is the Orthodox view, that matrimony continues and therefore, a widow or widower is encouraged to remain faithful to their spouse, who is alive in Christ, and not remarry. If you are going that route, it is more rational than the Mormon view, which encourages infidelity to an existing marriage.
 
in_servitude said:
First: I recently heard that a prerequisite for holding the office of Bishop in the LDS Church is that a person must hold a doctorate degree and/or be financially well off. Is this true?

Second: We have a family friend that is a 17 year old boy - and he recently was interviewed by his Bishop to determine if he was worthy to enter the temple. Since he is not paying his tithe, he was deemed “unworthy” to enter the temple. That’s an unfortunate way to put a label on someone. Is it the norm for the LDS Church to call someone “unworthy” for not paying a tithe. (Also - the 17 year old boy was using the term “paying a tithe” - that sounds different that giving a tithe - is that the proper way to phrase that activity?)
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My dad was a Mormon bishop, and did not go to college. I’m blue collar material, all the way. My brother, a college graduate and successful businessman, has also been a Mormon bishop.

The stigma placed on a 17 year old is tough. All his Mormon peers, his parents, his ward members, will know the one boy is not “worthy”. A most effective way of either getting him to pay, or leave. Time will tell.
 
RebeccaJ said:
The stigma placed on a 17 year old is tough. All his Mormon peers, his parents, his ward members, will know the one boy is not “worthy”. A most effective way of either getting him to pay, or leave. Time will tell.
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“pay, leave, or…” I’ll add one: or lie.
 
kimg901 said:
Why does God require a payment? Are All not welcome in Christ Church?
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You can go to the local ward meeting but you cannot be admitted to the LDS temple if you do not have a temple recommend which means you must be able to answer the question “Are you a full tithe payer?” with a yes. That is one of several questions but a no to that one means no TR for you.
 
Miriam1947 said:
You can go to the local ward meeting but you cannot be admitted to the LDS temple if you do not have a temple recommend which means you must be able to answer the question “Are you a full tithe payer?” with a yes. That is one of several questions but a no to that one means no TR for you.
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“No” to any of the questions can leave one outside the temple, not just tithing… :rolleyes:
 
Back to the OP’s question…
  1. No…there is no exclusive club to being an LDS bishop and it is not dependent upon one’s economic bracket
  2. Yes, one can be denied a temple recommend if they are not a full tithe payer…
 
For those wanting to approach the recommend questions list with integrity here is the list…

lds4u.com/lesson5/templequestions.htm

(All you have to do is answer the questions. One does not have to prove anything. It is the honor system)

Do you have faith in and a testimony of God the Eternal Father, His Son Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost?

Do you have a testimony of the Atonement of Christ and of His role as Savior and Redeemer?

Do you have a testimony of the restoration of the gospel in these the latter days?

Do you sustain the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as the Prophet, Seer, and Revelator and as the only person on the earth who possesses and is authorized to exercise all priesthood keys? Do you sustain members of the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles as prophets, seers, and revelators? Do you sustain the other General Authorities and local authorities of the Church?

Do you live the law of chastity?

Is there anything in your conduct relating to members of your family that is not in harmony with the teachings of the Church?

Do you support, affiliate with, or agree with any group or individual whose teachings or practices are contrary to or oppose those accepted by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?

Do you strive to keep the covenants you have made, to attend your sacrament and other meetings, and to keep your life in harmony with the laws and commandments of the gospel?

Are you honest in your dealings with your fellowmen?

Are you a full-tithe payer?

Do your keep the Word of Wisdom?

Do you have financial or other obligations to a former spouse or children? If yes, are you current in meeting those obligations?

If you have previously received your temple endowment: Do you keep the covenants that you made in the temple? Do you wear the garment both night and day as instructed in the endowment and in accordance with the covenant you made in the temple?
 
in_servitude said:
First: I recently heard that a prerequisite for holding the office of Bishop in the LDS Church is that a person must hold a doctorate degree and/or be financially well off. Is this true?

Second: We have a family friend that is a 17 year old boy - and he recently was interviewed by his Bishop to determine if he was worthy to enter the temple. Since he is not paying his tithe, he was deemed “unworthy” to enter the temple. That’s an unfortunate way to put a label on someone. Is it the norm for the LDS Church to call someone “unworthy” for not paying a tithe. (Also - the 17 year old boy was using the term “paying a tithe” - that sounds different that giving a tithe - is that the proper way to phrase that activity?)
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First: No official prerequisites but my experience has been that leadership positions lean towards the more educated and successful. It becomes more apparent at the Stake President level or higher. They tend to be doctors, businessmen, or attorneys.

Second: The quest for “worthiness” is one of the great plagues on the Mormon church. The temple recommend gives members a false sense of accomplishment, and it’s more about the letter of rather than the spirit of the law, much like the Pharisees.
 
Marie5890 said:
For those wanting to approach the recommend questions list with integrity here is the list…

lds4u.com/lesson5/templequestions.htm

(All you have to do is answer the questions. One does not have to prove anything. It is the honor system)

Do you have faith in and a testimony of God the Eternal Father, His Son Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost?

Do you have a testimony of the Atonement of Christ and of His role as Savior and Redeemer?

Do you have a testimony of the restoration of the gospel in these the latter days?

Do you sustain the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as the Prophet, Seer, and Revelator and as the only person on the earth who possesses and is authorized to exercise all priesthood keys? Do you sustain members of the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles as prophets, seers, and revelators? Do you sustain the other General Authorities and local authorities of the Church?

Do you live the law of chastity?

Is there anything in your conduct relating to members of your family that is not in harmony with the teachings of the Church?

Do you support, affiliate with, or agree with any group or individual whose teachings or practices are contrary to or oppose those accepted by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?

Do you strive to keep the covenants you have made, to attend your sacrament and other meetings, and to keep your life in harmony with the laws and commandments of the gospel?

Are you honest in your dealings with your fellowmen?

Are you a full-tithe payer?

Do your keep the Word of Wisdom?

Do you have financial or other obligations to a former spouse or children? If yes, are you current in meeting those obligations?

If you have previously received your temple endowment: Do you keep the covenants that you made in the temple? Do you wear the garment both night and day as instructed in the endowment and in accordance with the covenant you made in the temple?
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You realize of course that if you don’t answer a question the way they think it should be answered, it then becomes a conversation as to why right?

For example, Do you pay a full tithe? Answer: No. Then they are going to want to know why. Same thing with the word of wisdom question, or the chastity question.
 
twopekinguys said:
You realize of course that if you don’t answer a question the way they think it should be answered, it then becomes a conversation as to why right?

For example, Do you pay a full tithe? Answer: No. Then they are going to want to know why. Same thing with the word of wisdom question, or the chastity question.
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I would think that a conversation about how to return to the strait and narrow path would be a good thing. I grateful that servants of God are called to oversee who actually oversee.
 
gazelam said:
I would think that a conversation about how to return to the strait and narrow path would be a good thing. I grateful that servants of God are called to oversee who actually oversee.
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I agree. It is just sad that the celestial kingdom is a goal too dependent on money to obtain.

Salvation for money is just horrible
 
gazelam said:
I would think that a conversation about how to return to the strait and narrow path would be a good thing. I grateful that servants of God are called to oversee who actually oversee.
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I could see that. Sometimes with a good confession, the priest may also some questions to clarify what has been confessed…
 
gazelam said:
I would think that a conversation about how to return to the strait and narrow path would be a good thing. I grateful that servants of God are called to oversee who actually oversee.
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I have no issues with confession to a priest and I think conversations with a priest on overcoming sins and efforts to become more holy are good. No argument there.

When I read twopekinguys’ post, the word that stuck out to me was “think”.
twopekinguys said:
You realize of course that if you don’t answer a question the way they think it should be answered, it then becomes a conversation as to why right?
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Catholic and Orthodox priests and Protestant ministers spend years studying theology and learning pastoral care. LDS bishops, on the other hand, have no formal theological education and very little training in pastoral care. They have no more theological learning or experience in ministering or counseling than the next guy sitting in the pews. This can cause all kinds of problems.

I’m not saying that traditional Christian pastors are perfect. They are sinners just like the rest of us. But when one is sick, should one go to the doctor who has years of training and experience? Or should one see the doctor’s receptionist who has heard a lot from the doctor about medical care but has no formal training?
 
Building on this, priests don’t judge whether or not we’re “worthy” based on our sins. We are ALL sinners, in constant need of repentance & forgiveness. Priests can help us through confession and offer advice, but they can’t bar us from Gods mercy.

LDS bishops judge whether or not a person is worthy enough to enter the temple and receive the special blessings, make sacred covenants and perform the sacred ordinances inside, which help prepare families for eternity. Eternity is a pretty big thing to mess up, why should another sinful and imperfect person judge whether or not another person is worthy enough to receive the blessings of heaven? Christ came for us ALL, He came to set us FREE, not to set up an elite club for only the worthiest members.

It seems like fear is a huge driving force too, and I don’t mean all members are fearful and dread the TR interview, but what I mean is, to ask questions or “affiliate” w/individuals who believe something different is to mess with your eternal salvation. After all, going into the temple often helps determine what level of heaven you have earned. There’s fear if you’re not tithing, if you don’t follow the WOW, there’s fear if you sin. There’s fear in that if you doubt, in even the smallest way, you’re no longer worthy and you’re not allowed in the temple b/c you may “pollute” the “holy house” (D&C 110:8).

God is love, and there should be no fear in love. The freedom and peace I have in my heart was not earned by going through a temple, but given to me as a gift through Jesus. And when my time comes to stand before the throne of God, it will be God Himself, who knows me better than I know myself, who will judge me. No other person has a right to deem whether or not I’m worthy, for Jesus has already made me worthy. YOU have already been made worthy too.

Peace 🙂
 
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