Mormon church objects to Angel T-shirt

[Maratom]

What brand of coffee does Moroni drink?
examiner.com/a-636852~Mormon_Church_Objects_to_Angel_T_Shirt.html

 

[August]

Know what bothered me the most? The image of Moroni is a regestered trademark of the LDS. Maybe I’m off base, but are any images of Catholic saints/angels registered trademarks of the Church? Does the LDS seem like a corporation to anyone else?****

 

[nichjake]

Mormons will get upset about anything…its like they look for an excuse to get offended.

 

[PaulDupre]

Mormons will get upset about anything…its like they look for an excuse to get offended.

They love to pretend to be persecuted, because they believe that is proof that their religion is true (“persecution is the heritage of the righteous”).

So if there isn’t any real persecution, they just imagine some.

 

[colliric]

They love to pretend to be persecuted, because they believe that is proof that their religion is true (“persecution is the heritage of the righteous”).

So if there isn’t any real persecution, they just imagine some.

certainly.

Does anyone else think the Mormon Church is made up of rude Door-to-door salesmen?

 

[Allweather]

Know what bothered me the most? The image of Moroni is a regestered trademark of the LDS. Maybe I’m off base, but are any** images of Catholic saints/angels registered trademarks of the Church? Does the LDS seem like a corporation to anyone else?**

Yes it does. According to a recent article I read, it is a SIX BILLION DOLLAR annual income operation. That is tax-free income mostly from people who, upon their baptism (according to Zerinus this morning in another thread) are instructed in tithing. So tithing is of critical importance for the Mormons. Rather than spend any time teaching them all the odd details about Mormon theologies, which they defer and even obscure, they dip them, and then ask for the checkbook.

 

[why_me]

What about if I made a t-shirt of Pope John Paul 2 reading a porn magazine? And I would sell them in my chain of porn shops? Would you like it? I doubt it. These t-shirts are being sold in Utah and yes, some mormons would find them offensive. And why not?

We should hold sacred the sacredness of other faiths. If not, catholics cannot complain when its sacred symbols are also dragged through the mud. Madonna comes to mind.

 

[Allweather]

What about if I made a t-shirt of Pope John Paul 2 reading a porn magazine? And I would sell them in my chain of porn shops? Would you like it? I doubt it. These t-shirts are being sold in Utah and yes, some mormons would find them offensive. And why not?

We should hold sacred the sacredness of other faiths. If not, catholics cannot complain when its sacred symbols are also dragged through the mud. Madonna comes to mind.

Interesting comparison. Do Mormons equate a cup of coffee with pornography?

But I get your point, and I agree. I think the statement that Moroni is copyright material is what got the thing going. I don’t know whether he is, but it wouldn’t surprise me. Businesses are very jealous of their trademarks, and will go to court in a heartbeat to protect them. I can’t think of anything Catholic that isn’t in the public domain. We may get offended by a picture of the Pope reading a porn magazine, but there’s nothing we could do about it in the courts, unlike this coffeeshop owner who was threatened with court action for the Moroni infringement.

 

[Joe_Kelley]

One notes that they were not so silly as to picture Mohammad drinking a bottle of beer.

 

[Dauphin]

We may find the Mormon teaching about caffeine ludicrous, but there are many who find the Catholic teaching about masturbation equally ludicrous. That company would just as soon have insulted the Catholic Church if it was to its advantage.

 

[colliric]

What about if I made a t-shirt of Pope John Paul 2 reading a porn magazine? And I would sell them in my chain of porn shops? Would you like it? I doubt it. These t-shirts are being sold in Utah and yes, some mormons would find them offensive. And why not?

We should hold sacred the sacredness of other faiths. If not, catholics cannot complain when its sacred symbols are also dragged through the mud. Madonna comes to mind.

A cup of coffee is nothing. We had to endure that horrid painting of a pregnant Angelina Jolie(posing as the Virgin Mary) in a supermarket.

The thing is Ignoring it is the right play, Just let it fade away and be forgotten, and forgive the guy who did it.

No need to show hatred by sueing him. Did not christ say “if some guy hits you on the cheek, turn the other one and let him hit that too”.

 

[August]

What about if I made a t-shirt of Pope John Paul 2 reading a porn magazine? And I would sell them in my chain of porn shops? Would you like it? I doubt it. These t-shirts are being sold in Utah and yes, some mormons would find them offensive. And why not?

We should hold sacred the sacredness of other faiths. If not, catholics cannot complain when its sacred symbols are also dragged through the mud. Madonna comes to mind.

True, we shouldn’t insult the sacred symbols of other faiths. However, the problem is not that Mormons are complaining about it. The problem is that Mormons are trying to stop the T-shirts from being made. We should not let respect for religion erode the right of free expression.

 

[why_me]

True, we shouldn’t insult the sacred symbols of other faiths. However, the problem is not that Mormons are complaining about it. The problem is that Mormons are trying to stop the T-shirts from being made. We should not let respect for religion erode the right of free expression.

This would be an interesting debate for free speech: ‘If an image is held sacred, can that image be disrespected in a society that proclaims free speech?’ And if not, when does respect end, and totalitarism begin?

I suppose that that discussion is for another thread.

 

[kellie]

This would be an interesting debate for free speech: ‘If an image is held sacred, can that image be disrespected in a society that proclaims free speech?’ And if not, when does respect end, and totalitarism begin?

I suppose that that discussion is for another thread.

We here in Australia had an uproar recently with a youth burning the Australian flag. This post about free speech and the whole issue of flag-burning always makes me think of Michael Douglas in “The American President”

America isn’t easy. America is advanced citizenship. You gotta want it bad, 'cause it’s gonna put up a fight. It’s gonna say "You want free speech? Let’s see you acknowledge a man whose words make your blood boil, who’s standing center stage and advocating at the top of his lungs that which you would spend a lifetime opposing at the top of yours. You want to claim this land as the land of the free? Then the symbol of your country can’t just be a flag; the symbol also has to be one of its citizens exercising his right to burn that flag in protest. Show me that, defend that, celebrate that in your classrooms. Then, you can stand up and sing about the “land of the free”.

Not meaning to derail thread.

I can understand how the Mormons may be upset about their angel being depicted on t-shirts like that, but I disagree that an angel can be copyrighted.

No one owns anyone in Heaven.

Hmmm, except maybe the Elvis money making machine.

 

[majick275]

a generic angel can’t be copyrighted but the specific image that is moroni is distinctive and like any other corporate logo CAN be copyrighted. what is more relevant here is “fair use” as this is obviously satire. might make an interesting case. I’ll speak up though and voice my opinion that it’s wrong to do this. I have to side with the LDS position on this one issue. (and only this one )

 

[catsrus]

I think it’s wrong to dipict moroni & the trupet full of coffee just because it’s disrespectful and we hate it when we Catholics are the target.
However, how in the world (or out of it) does one trademark an angel?!?? I guess since it’s a mormon angel only, the angel doesn’t mind.

 

[GrammasRose]

Yes it does. According to a recent article I read, it is a SIX BILLION DOLLAR annual income operation. That is tax-free income mostly from people who, upon their baptism (according to Zerinus this morning in another thread) are instructed in tithing. So tithing is of critical importance for the Mormons. Rather than spend any time teaching them all the odd details about Mormon theologies, which they defer and even obscure, they dip them, and then ask for the checkbook.

Tithing is optional not mandatory. One would have to understand the reason for the law of tithing. It isn’t about how much money the LDS can gather.

 

[why_me]

a generic angel can’t be copyrighted but the specific image that is moroni is distinctive and like any other corporate logo CAN be copyrighted. what is more relevant here is “fair use” as this is obviously satire. might make an interesting case. I’ll speak up though and voice my opinion that it’s wrong to do this. I have to side with the LDS position on this one issue. (and only this one )

Well, that is a start! Lets hope for a second agreement soon.

Also I need to bring out that if one is lds and drinks coffee or tea or does not live the ‘Word of Wisdom’ one can not go to the temple. And since the angel Moroni stands on the temple itself, it is more than just an angel drinking the cup of coffee, rather it is Moroni drinking the coffee that becomes a problem for the temple meaning and respect.

 

[why_me]

I think it’s wrong to dipict moroni & the trupet full of coffee just because it’s disrespectful and we hate it when we Catholics are the target.
However, how in the world (or out of it) does one trademark an angel?!?? I guess since it’s a mormon angel only, the angel doesn’t mind.

The t-shirt has Moroni as he stands on top of lds temples. Here is the problem.

 

[PaulDupre]

What about if I made a t-shirt of Pope John Paul 2 reading a porn magazine? And I would sell them in my chain of porn shops? Would you like it? I doubt it. These t-shirts are being sold in Utah and yes, some mormons would find them offensive. And why not?

There is a difference here, and I’m surprised that you don’t see it. Pornography is objectively evil and a depiction of anyone, especially the pope, looking at it is objectively defamatory. Coffee is not objectively evil, as is evidenced by the fact that all of the early Mormon leaders drank coffee, as well as tea and wine. Joseph Smith was an ardent tea drinker and had an extensive wine collection, as did Brigham Young. Both men were known to be “in their cups” from time to time. It was only later in Mormon history that coffee, tea, tobacco and alcohol became “sinful” in the eyes of Mormons.

Paul