Mormon Claims

[SirThomasMore]

Thomas,
I had asked, “as in”?

If you are saying that anyone who doesn’t believe the Nicene creed thinks God was not “telling the truth” when He allowed that political and religious group of men to come up with their “definition” of God, then that would be because God allows what He chooses to allow. He allows the free will choice of humankind–even to the point of allowing there to be a definition of Him that is going to be less than accurate and less than divinely inspired.

So, your free will choice comes to the fore in your statement, and it becomes a matter of following the principles outlined by Paul in his letter to the Corinthians. (See 1 Corinthians 2 and 3). You certainly get to believe what you want to believe, and go out of your way to get anyone to listen to you who will listen to you, but the Holy Ghost is a far more credible witness than what your statements provide, plus He has the consistency of bringing that witness to millions of people as well as having inspired Biblical truth to show how that witness is obtained and to show that there are ways to figure it out using the Bible as the guide to obtain such.

You, too, are free to believe what you claim the “holy spirit” told you just a muslims are, James Jones’ koolaide drinkers are, and Seventh Day Adventists are. The problem is, for your doctrine to be true, God is a liar

 

[catholic-rcia]

God does not lie, when He said if you eat from the tree in the middle of the garden you will die. We all die Parker as a result. We have all of the problems in this world as a result of going against Gods grace to us.

We all leave, we are all prodigal sons and daughetrs. This lifes test if you want to call it that is to find God and choose Him over ourselves. To get back to the garden and desire to stay forever.

Catechism
[392](javascriptpenWindow(‘cr/392.htm’) Scripture speaks of a sin of these angels.269 This “fall” consists in the free choice of these created spirits, who radically and irrevocably *rejected *God and his reign. We find a reflection of that rebellion in the tempter’s words to our first parents: "You will be like God."270 The devil “has sinned from the beginning”; he is “a liar and the father of lies”.271

 

[ParkerD]

I choose wisdom over living in a garden with no opposition. I choose that with my whole heart and soul, and give gratitude for the Savior and Redeemer Who allows me to grow by making choices in my life, and Redeems and gives the gift of grace without the kinds of misinformation that are presented as supposedly Biblical teachings. It’s OK. We each have what we want.

 

[SirThomasMore]

I choose wisdom over living in a garden with no opposition. I choose that with my whole heart and soul, and give gratitude for the Savior and Redeemer Who allows me to grow by making choices in my life, and Redeems and gives the gift of grace without the kinds of misinformation that are presented as supposedly Biblical teachings. It’s OK. We each have what we want.

Yes, and you choose Joseph instead of God because, as we have demonstrated using the Bible, for Joseph to be correct, God is a liar

 

[catholic-rcia]

Dear Parker

If you do not believe in the Creed, apostle’s creed along with the Nicene, that God is one, Father Son and Holy Spirit than why in the world would your leaders want to be called Christian? Why are you hear at this board? To teach us that we can in the end become a god? That would not be coming from the Holy Spirit. I know this as I am a Christian who was baptized into Trinity. Into the death of Christ in order to be raised by Him through Him.

Your belief system taught to you by those you love is a completely different belief system that came several hundred years later. It was if the fall was to be taught as a good thing, to separate from the Grace of God in a pursuit of Godhood is a good thing. Without the Holy Trinity Parker you would not be alive. It is the only thing that sustains us. It is where goodness and truth, and love originate. We as creatures get to share in it. We will never be it. Yes we will be like God, we will be like God but never God or a God. We will be in Gods Grace, in Gods Love just like Jesus has through all of eternity. We have a beginning, Jesus has always been.

Can you not see the difference between Catholic and Mormon teachings? Can’t you see the humility, the opposite of pride? You or I can do nothing good apart from God. You may think you can, but you can’t. If you truly believe that someday you will have the power of the Holy Trinity in your own right you will die. As if you think you can go under water and somehow breath and live on your own merits. God breathed and made you Parker. He placed His life into you so you can live. Without the One God of all things seen or unseen you will die. You may be a great person as a tool with no life in it can be a great tool. But is is made of wood and metal. We are tools of God for others like you. Not because we are smarter than you or above you in nay way. We are not …Parker we are you! We just understand the battle going on. We understand this because we sit at the table with Jesus, we confess our sinfulness to Jesus. We surrender to Jesus. We listen to the scriptures daily as we have daily scriptures, our daily bread to guide us to truth. We have the Holy Spirit who witnesses to us about whom Jesus is. We have the same revelations that the Apostles had regarding who Jesus is…who we are not.

You mention a religious group that just happened to come up with the definition that God is one, that in the image of God means love, that the Godhead is a relationship of love between the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. As if they were stupid to Call Jesus Lord and God attaching the meaning of the Holy Trinity upon it. The words we are of the body of Christ mean exactly what they mean. He is the eternal head of the body we being parts of it by choice, by free will.

Parker I do not believe you have the Holy Spirit in you…I say this only out of love. Other forces are at play that seem, appear to be in the light of Christ.
Here is some Trinity Parker pre Nicene Creed. Very Scriptural. But I do not think you can see it in the same light that we see it in. its just a piece of the Creed.

Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant. 2Ye know that ye were Gentiles, carried away unto these dumb idols, even as ye were led. 3Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.
4Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord. 6And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all. 7But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal. 8For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit; 9To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; 10To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues: 11But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.

This is our God spoken of here Parker, yours as well.

Rich
www.utahmission.com

 

[catholic-rcia]

I choose wisdom over living in a garden with no opposition. I choose that with my whole heart and soul, and give gratitude for the Savior and Redeemer Who allows me to grow by making choices in my life, and Redeems and gives the gift of grace without the kinds of misinformation that are presented as supposedly Biblical teachings. It’s OK. We each have what we want.

Parker you yourself have the same opportunity to become a Saint. Dig deeper my freind.

When I was just twenty it gave me great satisfaction that I managed to read, and understand, the Ten Categories of Aristotle without a teacher. I would mention the book at every opportunity, slipping the title in with a touch of awe, smiling to myself when lecturers would comment how difficult it had been for them to answer it.

And much good it did me! Indeed, it was harmful, because it encouraged me to think of You, O Lord, as if you were part of what you had made, instead of being its essence and origin. Sadly, I had my back toward the light and my eyes fixed on the darkness. I could understand without difficulty logic, rhetoric, geometry, music, and arithmetic, but I did not see that my intelligence itself was a gift of God and that all the true things I learned came from him, their source. What advantage was it to me that I had a nimble wit when all the while I turned from good and clung to evil? Little did I realize then how much better off were all those (as I saw them) “simple” souls who lacked my native intelligence but put their trust in God …Saint Augustine from the www.utahmission.com

 

[evanfaust]

I didn’t scorn the witness, I scorned your definition of first-person witness. You apparently have had some sort of vision of the Holy Spirit. If true this is wonderful, but it does not make you a first-person witness in the same sense as Paul.

The witness of the Holly Ghost is indeed powerfull. I also experienced the truthfulness of Mormonism through a powerfull manifestation of the Holly Ghost, which I cannot deny. Honestly, if I had seen an angel I don’t think it would have been as powerfull as the Holy Ghost confirming Joseph Smith, Book of Mormon and the LDS Church!

I think it is so convincing, powerfull and sacred that the Lord said:

Luke 12:10, “And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but unto him that blasphemeth against the Holy Ghost it shall not be forgiven.”

 

[SirThomasMore]

The witness of the Holly Ghost is indeed powerfull. I also experienced the truthfulness of Mormonism through a powerfull manifestation of the Holly Ghost, which I cannot deny. Honestly, if I had seen an angel I don’t think it would have been as powerfull as the Holly Ghost confirming Joseph Smith, Book of Mormon and the LDS Church!

I think it is so convincing, powerfull and sacred that the Lord said:

Luke 12:10, “And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but unto him that blasphemeth against the Holy Ghost it shall not be forgiven.”

And that is why I pray for you. To follow a false holy ghost that leads you to a fase church following a false prophet is dangerous for your soul. You need to come to the Church who has a doctrine that does not call God a liar.

 

[catholic-rcia]

Originally Posted by ParkerD
I choose wisdom over living in a garden with no opposition. I choose that with my whole heart and soul, and give gratitude for the Savior and Redeemer Who allows me to grow by making choices in my life, and Redeems and gives the gift of grace without the kinds of misinformation that are presented as supposedly Biblical teachings. It’s OK. We each have what we want.

Jesus redeems you because you have chosen to take wisdom rather than allowing wisdom to take you. To be freely given. Jesus is the tree in the middle of the garden Parker, freely given. He is the tree of life. Take it as if you can posses it, well then you need to come to our Parish and gaze upon the Crucifix to see what taking it has done. To see what God has done for you.

In essence you are choosing the empty promise from Satan as if it were a good thing. But your not alone Parker, all of man kind has been inflicted by choosing this. Satan hates the Confessional! This is original sin you are choosing with your whole heart Parker. Because we are not God we all fall into this lie. God knows this about us, the whys and the reasons we, His created children would make such a choice. He allows us to stand in front of the oncoming bus because he did not make us His puppets. He sends his Son to push his children aside and He takes the hit for us. The Crucifixion is our portal home. His death for us is our portal back to the garden. It did not have to happen this way, we made the choice. He goes searching , He finds us, throws us upon His back if we are willing, the crossbeam upon His back, the lost lamb who strayed from Him upon His back and He alone carries us back home. This time never to be fooled again. We will be in a place where no opposition will be able to enter. The choice that counts has been redeemed and we will praise Him forever and be happy to be with Him forever. No progression of any kind other than being with Jesus. Nothing else will matter or occupy our minds.

 

[evanfaust]

And that is why I pray for you. To follow a false holy ghost that leads you to a fase church following a false prophet is dangerous for your soul. You need to come to the Church who has a doctrine that does not call God a liar.

I thank you for praying for me, but Mormons don’t call God a liar! Mormons don’t believe God lies. You are saying that because you do not accept or do not understand what we believe in! We believe God is God because he follows the laws. I am greatfull for Joseph Smith restoring this great knowledge and being the instrument for opening the heavens again!

 

[SirThomasMore]

I thank you for praying for me, but Mormons don’t call God a liar! Mormons don’t believe God lies. You are saying that because you do not accept or do not understand what we believe in! We believe God is God because he follows the laws. I am greatfull for Joseph Smith restoring this great knowledge and being the instrument for opening the heavens again!

I do not say what I say because I do not accept what you believe in. I do not believe what you believe in because is contrary to the Bible. I understand perfectly what you believe in, another reason why I can;t accept it.

I have shown in Isaiah how to believe Joseph Smith is to call God a liar. I have shown in Matthew how to believe Joseph Smith is to call Christ a liar.

Joseph Smith did not restore anything. We have shown how quotes from your leaders prove they are not from God.

Come home to the Catholic Church.

 

[twopekinguys]

The witness of the Holly Ghost is indeed powerfull. I also experienced the truthfulness of Mormonism through a powerfull manifestation of the Holly Ghost, which I cannot deny. Honestly, if I had seen an angel I don’t think it would have been as powerfull as the Holy Ghost confirming Joseph Smith, Book of Mormon and the LDS Church!

I think it is so convincing, powerfull and sacred that the Lord said:

Luke 12:10, “And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but unto him that blasphemeth against the Holy Ghost it shall not be forgiven.”

I notice the holy ghost you saw didn’t confirm Jesus, but he did JS.

That’s interesting.

 

[why_me]

And that is why I pray for you. To follow a false holy ghost that leads you to a fase church following a false prophet is dangerous for your soul. You need to come to the Church who has a doctrine that does not call God a liar.

What exactly is a false holy ghost? And what would count as a false prophet? The way I see it, mormons by and large lead a good and healthy life mainly because of the word of wisdom. Also, the counsel they receive about how to do life, seems okay. They are also rooted in the family and have good family values which does include a lot of prayer. If that is a false holy ghost leading them, it is a strange false holy ghost.

 

[why_me]

I notice the holy ghost you saw didn’t confirm Jesus, but he did JS.

That’s interesting.

It is not so interesting. Jesus is a given for a chrstian. But in mormonism and its truthfulness depends on Joseph Smith and the book of mormon. When investigators who are already christian pray about the lds church, they pray about the truthfulness of the book of mormon as the book instructs them to do. It is as simple as that. And the holy ghost confirms the truthfulness by giving a witness.

 

[SirThomasMore]

What exactly is a false holy ghost?

One that leads to a false prophet

And what would count as a false prophet?

One that teaches false doctrine

The way I see it, mormons by and large lead a good and healthy life mainly because of the word of wisdom.

So? The Chinese, by and large, lead healthy lives. Does that mean their Church is the true Church?

Also, the counsel they receive about how to do life, seems okay.

The council that from many Churches about how to do life seems ok.,.,…arfe they all the true Church?

They are also rooted in the family and have good family values which does include a lot of prayer.

The same could be said for many Churches, so are they all the true Church

If that is a false holy ghost leading them, it is a strange false holy ghost

No, just not the true one. There are a lot of people out there who can’t be led astray by drugs and alcohol, etc. They need something more dangerous. Like Jesus warned, wolf in sheeps clothing. The Mormon Church is like a like a fake Rolex. It looks good on the outside and might even make you feel good wearing it, but depending on it could make you late for a lot of important stuff.

 

[why_me]

I do not say what I say because I do not accept what you believe in. I do not believe what you believe in because is contrary to the Bible. I understand perfectly what you believe in, another reason why I can;t accept it.

I have shown in Isaiah how to believe Joseph Smith is to call God a liar. I have shown in Matthew how to believe Joseph Smith is to call Christ a liar.

Joseph Smith did not restore anything. We have shown how quotes from your leaders prove they are not from God.

Come home to the Catholic Church.

All scripture is up to interpretation. This is why they are so many christian faiths running around. Showing cherry picked quotations is not much of a proof. I brought your attention to the religious wars of Europe that occured for over a hundred of years where protestants and catholics were killing each other. Someone can argue as to whether the protestant and catholic faiths are worthy to come home too because of all the previous bloodshed.

See my point? There should be no holier than thou attitude.

 

[SirThomasMore]

It is not so interesting. Jesus is a given for a chrstian. But in mormonism and its truthfulness depends on Joseph Smith and the book of mormon
When investigators who are already christian pray about the lds church, they pray about the truthfulness of the book of mormon as the book instructs them to do. It is as simple as that. And the holy ghost confirms the truthfulness by giving a witness

Yes, but not the real one

.

 

[Marc_Anthony]

why me-That really doesn’t make sense though. We need one, valid interpretation, or else we’d be force to accept that the Bible is telling different people different and conflicting things, which is impossible.

 

[SirThomasMore]

All scripture is up to interpretation. This is why they are so many christian faiths running around. Showing cherry picked quotations is not much of a proof. I brought your attention to the religious wars of Europe that occured for over a hundred of years where protestants and catholics were killing each other. Someone can argue as to whether the protestant and catholic faiths are worthy to come home too because of all the previous bloodshed.

Red Herrings. To believe Joe Smith is to believe God lies.

See my point? There should be no holier than thou attitude.

There isn’t. Just an attitude of wanting to help those who have been as fooled by false prophets as those who drank the grape flavor iade for Jim Jones.

 

[why_me]

SirThomasMore:
Sir tom said:

No, just not the true one. There are a lot of people out there who can’t be led astray by drugs and alcohol, etc. They need something more dangerous. Like Jesus warned, wolf in sheeps clothing. The Mormon Church is like a like a fake Rolex. It looks good on the outside and might even make you feel good wearing it, but depending on it could make you late for a lot of important stuff.

All churches can be compared to fake Rolexes by the other churches. However, the mormon church is a church that teaches its members how to live the word of god. They do it their way. And catholics do it their way. I just attended a nice gathering of catholics celebrating the 50th birthday of one nun that was celebrated after mass. It was a nice gathering of people who seem to believe in their faith. Nothing wrong in that. And mormons have their gatherings too.

Everyone is trying to do what they need to do to be saved. I say that both the catholic and mormon churches are rolexes. They are just different in style and look.