Mormon Claims

[Javl]

Originaly posted by SirThomasMore

I have read how Joseph built an army in nauvoo.

FYI:
Joseph Smith built a large army and liked to be called “General”.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

 

[why_me]

Early Christians would rather be martyred for their faith than kill innocents.

Maybe. But maybe not. We can not judge the mormons of MMM. They went through a lot…burning of homes, murder of loved ones and friends. The psychological trauma must have been severe. And we need to remember that this happened only 13 years after the murder of Joseph Smith and his brother Hyrum. And they also experienced that murder.

I can not judge the make up of their minds. However, catholics such as Tom tend to ignore such injustice against the mormons.

 

[SirThomasMore]

Maybe. But maybe not. We can not judge the mormons of MMM. They went through a lot…burning of homes, murder of loved ones and friends. The psychological trauma must have been severe. And we need to remember that this happened only 13 years after the murder of Joseph Smith and his brother Hyrum. And they also experienced that murder.

I can not judge the make up of their minds. However, catholics such as Tom tend to ignore such injustice against the mormons.

Catholics such as me view the ENTIRE STORY, not just the LDS side of it. Catholics such as me see that Mormons were just as guilty of heaping bad onto others. And Catholics such as me NEVER try to justify the slaughter of innocents like Whyme is doing.

 

[why_me]

Hello Tom,

I will not respond to blocked in responses that make it hard for me to respond. I also don’t respond to answers when he does it. You seem to be learning from him.

You made your choice to leave the lds faith and that is fne with me. It is how you justify it that is the problem. When I read your posts it is as if I am reading information from the antimormon handbook. All your responses have counter answers. That is just the way it is. If you want to talk about MMM then you should be prepared to talk about the injustices in the past when it came to the religous wars in Europe and the injustices the mormons experienced in their history.

I think that you will find enough blood to go around from both catholics and protestants when you investigate the religious wars.

If you were defending the mormons at MMM, the psychological defense would be the best offense.

 

[why_me]

Catholics such as me view the ENTIRE STORY, not just the LDS side of it. Catholics such as me see that Mormons were just as guilty of heaping bad onto others. And Catholics such as me NEVER try to justify the slaughter of innocents like Whyme is doing.

If you say so. I never said that mormons were perfect. No all mormons are alike. I am just providing the context. You still haven’t come out and condemned the mobs for killing innocent mormons. And unfortunately you don’t seem to take this consideration when dealing with issues like MMM.

History is always open to interpretations, Tom. That is just the way it is. Likewise for the religious wars that engulfed Europe…how can christians justify killing other christians. And not a mormon to be seen.

historyguide.org/earlymod/lecture6c.html

 

[SirThomasMore]

Hello Tom,

I will not respond to blocked in responses that make it hard for me to respond. I also don’t respond to answers when he does it. You seem to be learning from him.

No, it just makes it easier for me to respond. If you choose not to respond, that is fine. I suspect, however, that your choice not to respond has little to do with how I respond, but that it is difficult to respond to someone who knows the truth

You made your choice to leave the lds faith and that is fne with me.

Actually, it was not my choice. God led me away from it

It is how you justify it that is the problem.

I justfy nothing. I explained why I left. I truly have no need to justfy my actions to anyone but God, and He already knows…

When I read your posts it is as if I am reading information from the antimormon handbook.

I have never read an anti-Mormon handbook, so I will take your word for it. What I post is truth. If truth is in the anti-mormon handbook, then maybe I should a buy a copy. Where would I be able to find it?

All your responses have counter answers. That is just the way it is. If you want to talk about MMM then you should be prepared to talk about the injustices in the past when it came to the religous wars in Europe. I think that you will find enough blood to go around from both catholics and protestants.

You will never see me justify what anyone did in the past. All I have ever said is we should not use our 2010 American sense of morality on what happened hundreds of years ago in a different time, place, and culture. But MMM was as bad as it gets. First, they use a flag a truce to lure out the men, woman, and children, and once lured, they slaughter them, then they blame it on the Indians. Then they covered it up so well that it took three trials and after it was all said and done ONE person was convicted. ONE. Yeah, MMM was as bad as it gets.

If you were defending the mormons at MMM, the psychological defense would be the best offense.

I would never defend MMM. I would never justify MMM. If I was still LDS, I would look at MMM and say, “there is no defense and no excuse for MMM. It was some really bad Mormons who went crazy and committed unspeakable crimes. It was then hanndles terribly by the LDSChurch. It was, and is, not representative of what the LDS teaches and stands for, andf that is all I have to say.” And I would post that any time someone brought it up.

I refuse to defend the Priests, for example, who ruined the lives of so many. If it were up to me, they would be in prison and be castrated. Though I understand the difficulty the Bishops had (the confidentiality of confession) they, too, are just as guilty and should be in prison. What they did is NOT consistant with Catholic teaching. What happened is indicative of liberals in the US Catholic Church damaged the Church from within. We will overcome this because we have God on our side. I read a book “Good-bye, Good Men” that explains how this all came to pass. As long as we are sinful people, we will have people who do awful things.

Anyway, that is how I would handle MMM. Nothing EVER done to the Mormons justifies what happened at MM

 

[SirThomasMore]

If you say so. I never said that mormons were perfect. No all mormons are alike. I am just providing the context. You still haven’t come out and condemned the mobs for killing innocent mormons.

That is untrue. Very untrue. I have stated on this board many times that things like Haun’s Mill were an atrocity and those who participated should be punished. I have also said that it is called The Missouri-Mormon War for a reason and bad things happen ion war. I have seen the inflammatory comments of Rigdon and Joseph and others that helped fan the flames of the "war:. I condemn both sides for their conduct and actions. I condemn the mob that destroyed the press in Nauvoo, and I condemn the mob that killed Joseph and Hiram.

And unfortunately you don’t seem to take this consideration when dealing with issues like MMM.

There is no justification for MMM

 

[evanfaust]

No, it is not "Bishops are Bishops and Apostles are Apostles. You seem to think things can only change if your church wants them to.

Ok…if you wish to be so set on following what the Bible says and mirroring exactly the set up in 33ad., tell me…

Who said “mirroring exactly”? I said the Catholic Church does not even “resemble” the Church Christ established. The Mormons do “resemble” it. Mormons do have the foundation! Prophets, Apostles, continuous revelation, open cannon of scriptures, etc. Catholics do not believe in continuous revelation, consequently any change they make is based on human intellect alone and not revelation from God. On the contrary, Mormons do have authority to make changes, since they claim to have prophets and 12 Apostles who believe in continuous revelation. So, if you think we made changes to the original Church, we are justified to do so, because we believe in revelation. Different times require some adaption and adjustment. Even so, we are amazingly close to the organization of the original Church. But, let’s look at your questions.

1. Why do you have 15 Apostles instead 12?

 

[evanfaust]

[QUOTE4. Why do you have Mission Presidents? Never saw that mentioned in the Bible
[/QUOTE]

As I mentioned before, Mormons do not try to make the exact replication of the Church Christ organized, just the basic organization, which the Catholic does not even have. However, Mormons are a global Church established in about 150 countries with more than 60 thousand missionaries. It is obvious that this has to be organized and sub-divided with someone to preside the various missions of the Church. As you read the Old Testament you see Moses organizing Israel in groups and choosing men to be the “heads” or “rulers” over these groups.

“And Moses chose able men out of all Israel, and made them heads over the people, rulers of thousands, rulers of hundreds, rulers of fifties, and rulers of tens.” Ex 18:25

1. Why do you send out, for the most part, only 19 year olds and golden-age missionaries? Never saw that mentioned in the Bible.

During the Church Christ established, He sent out mainly the Apostles and the Seventies to preach the gospel. But today, the need is a much bigger; the population of the world is around 7 billion people. Going on a mission at 19 is not scriptural, but more of a tradition. Age is not relevant here. One does not need to be 19 to go on a Mission; we also have couples (around 60 yeas old) who will also go on a mission. I served my mission when I was 22 years old. Again, this is one more reason why we need continuous revelation in a changing world.

1. Why do you have Sunday School Presidency? Never saw that mentioned in the Bible

Do you think the Saints (members of the church) used to gather to learn more about the gospel? Did they have Teachers? Of course! The New Testament clearly said they had teachers. If they had teachers, it does not seem far fetched to imagine they had someone to preside over the teachers. If you take into account the example Moses left by naming men to be “heads” over them, it makes sense to extrapolate it to every organization in the Church. Even if they did not have Sunday School Presidents, today we have such a need for better coordination and organization. We do not have all the records of went on in the church at that time, so you cannot say they did not have President over their teachers.

1. Why do you have a Patriarch who gives Patriarchal blessings? Never saw that mentioned in the Bible as part of the Church Jesus orgainzed in 33 AD

Evangelist and Patriarch are considered the same position. This is part of the restoration of “everything” to happen in the last days.

1. Why do you have 70s Presidency? Never saw that mentioned in the Bible

We have Seventies like in the primitive Church and also like during the time of Moses! Does the Catholic have Seventies? Of course not, Catholics do not even have Apostles and Prophets! Again, we do not claim to exactly replicate the Church of Jesus Christ, just the basic organization. Of course we must have a need for more Seventies and they will continue to multiply as the Church grow. It is obvious that this growth requires presidents or “ heads” over certain group of people! But we have the Seventies and Apostles and Prophets, nobody else even make such claims? We are the only Christian Church that truly resembles the organization Christ established on the earth.

1. Why do you have Elder’s Quorum Presidency? Never saw that mentioned in the Bible

After what I explained above, do I really need to explain this one? Same principle!

1. Why do you have a Bishopric with counselors? Never saw that mentioned in the Bible

Just read again what I said about the First presidency. It applies here too.

Nowadays, there is even much more need of this. We have more challenges and it makes sense to have presidencies to spread the responsibilities. Besides we do not have all the writings of the original Church to say they did not have counselors in the Bishopric. On the other hand even if they never had counselors assisting the Bishops, we do not claim to copy the exact structure of the original Church! I don’t think any Mormon understand it that way! That is why there is a need of continuous revelation and not using the exact model for all times and all dispensations. But again, we do have the foundation and Prophets and Apostles to adjust it from time to time to the growth of the Church. That is what really matters!

 

[SirThomasMore]

Who said “mirroring exactly”? I said the Catholic Church does not even “resemble” the Church Christ established.

Actually, it does, just a lot larger.

The Mormons do “resemble” it.

No, it doesn’t

Mormons do have the foundation! Prophets, Apostles, continuous revelation, open cannon of scriptures, etc.

Names and titles mean nothing. There is not a single verse in the NT where it discusses continuing revelation

Catholics do not believe in continuous revelation, consequently any change they make is based on human intellect alone and not revelation from God.

Actually, God knew folks like Joseph would come along, so Revelation ceased. It was to protect us from people like Joseph Smith, Jim Jones, etc.

On the contrary, Mormons do have authority to make changes,

It is self-appointed authority. And yes, they make changes based on peer pressure and money

Do you know how many apostles there were in the original church? We know about the Quorum of 12, but how about other apostles ordained later like Mathias (to replace Judas), Paul, Barnabas, the brother of Jesus…? Mormons have a Quorum of 12 Apostles, don’t they?

There are 15 Apostles. Show me in the Bible where Jesus said to have 15 Apostles

Is there any other Church that claim to have such? As I said before, the New Testament is clear about the 12 apostles, representing the 12 tribes of Israel, but more apostles were ordained, as the records indicate. The New Testament does not address every issue. Besides, we don’t have all the records about everything that transpired among them. Many things went on that were not recorded or if they were recorded they got lost.

There is nothing that says there must be 12 Apostles

They may not have used the word “President”, but it was evident Peter was the Senior Apostle. Peter was clearly regarded by Jesus Christ as the Senior Apostle. I don’t think you dispute that, do you? That is why he became the leader of the Church after the death of Christ.

Dodge. You said you resemble. Show me where the word President is used in the Bible

 

[SirThomasMore]

Why do you have Mission Presidents? Never saw that mentioned in the Bible]

As I mentioned before, Mormons do not try to make the exact replication of the Church Christ organized, just the basic organization, which the Catholic does not even have. However, Mormons are a global Church established in about 150 countries with more than 60 thousand missionaries. It is obvious that this has to be organized and sub-divided with someone to preside the various missions of the Church. As you read the Old Testament you see Moses organizing Israel in groups and choosing men to be the “heads” or “rulers” over these groups.

Stop making excuses. Show me where there were Mission Presidents in the Bible.

Quote:
5. Why do you send out, for the most part, only 19 year olds and golden-age missionaries? Never saw that mentioned in the Bible.

During the Church Christ established, He sent out mainly the Apostles and the Seventies to preach the gospel. But today, the need is a much bigger; the population of the world is around 7 billion people. Going on a mission at 19 is not scriptural, but more of a tradition. Age is not relevant here. One does not need to be 19 to go on a Mission; we also have couples (around 60 yeas old) who will also go on a mission. I served my mission when I was 22 years old. Again, this is one more reason why we need continuous revelation in a changing world.

I was 24. But that dodges my questions. Show me where Jesus sent out 19 year old men and 21 year old women

Quote:
6. Why do you have Sunday School Presidency? Never saw that mentioned in the Bible

Do you think the Saints (members of the church) used to gather to learn more about the gospel? Did they have Teachers? Of course! The New Testament clearly said they had teachers. If they had teachers, it does not seem far fetched to imagine they had someone to preside over the teachers. If you take into account the example Moses left by naming men to be “heads” over them, it makes sense to extrapolate it to every organization in the Church. Even if they did not have Sunday School Presidents, today we have such a need for better coordination and organization. We do not have all the records of went on in the church at that time, so you cannot say they did not have President over their teachers.

Show me in the Bible…after all YOU made the claim of how much you resemble the NT Church. SHOW ME

Quote:
7. Why do you have a Patriarch who gives Patriarchal blessings? Never saw that mentioned in the Bible as part of the Church Jesus orgainzed in 33 AD

Evangelist and Patriarch are considered the same position. This is part of the restoration of “everything” to happen in the last days.

Another dodge. Show me in the New testament where Jesus said we must have Patriarchs to give Patriarchal Blessings

Quote:
8. Why do you have 70s Presidency? Never saw that mentioned in the Bible

We have Seventies like in the primitive Church and also like during the time of Moses! Does the Catholic have Seventies? Of course not, Catholics do not even have Apostles and Prophets! Again, we do not claim to exactly replicate the Church of Jesus Christ, just the basic organization. Of course we must have a need for more Seventies and they will continue to multiply as the Church grow. It is obvious that this growth requires presidents or “ heads” over certain group of people! But we have the Seventies and Apostles and Prophets, nobody else even make such claims? We are the only Christian Church that truly resembles the organization Christ established on the earth.

Actually, what you have shown is that you are the furtherest thing from resembling the NT Testament Church. All you have done is prove my point
Quote:
9. Why do you have Elder’s Quorum Presidency? Never saw that mentioned in the Bible

After what I explained above, do I really need to explain this one? Same principle!

Yep…same principal…you do not resemble the NT Church

Quote:
10. Why do you have a Bishopric with counselors? Never saw that mentioned in the Bible

Just read again what I said about the First presidency. It applies here too.

COLOR=“Blue”]Yep…same principal…you do not resemble the NT Church

Thank you for proving my point. Your Church is nowhere near resembling the NT Church! Yours is man-made, not Christ-made

 

[lax16]

Who said “mirroring exactly”? I said the Catholic Church does not even “resemble” the Church Christ established. The Mormons do “resemble” it. Mormons do have the foundation! Prophets, Apostles, continuous revelation, open cannon of scriptures, etc. Catholics do not believe in continuous revelation,

Jesus left us everything we need. We do not need continuing revelation to spread the gospel. What do Mormons receive in revelation that is an “add on” to what Jesus taught?

consequently any change they make is based on human intellect alone and not revelation from God. On the contrary, Mormons do have authority to make changes,

What changes have Mormons made?

since they claim to have prophets and 12 Apostles who believe in continuous revelation. So, if you think we made changes to the original Church, we are justified to do so, because we believe in revelation. Different times require some adaption and adjustment. Even so, we are amazingly close to the organization of the original Church. But, let’s look at your questions.

Please provide examples of revelation from the LDS church authority that would be close to the early Church? Be specific: provide the name of the prophet/date/revelation.

Do you know how many apostles there were in the original church? We know about the Quorum of 12, but how about other apostles ordained later like Mathias (to replace Judas), Paul, Barnabas, the brother of Jesus…? Mormons have a Quorum of 12 Apostles, don’t they? Is there any other Church that claim to have such? As I said before, the New Testament is clear about the 12 apostles, representing the 12 tribes of Israel, but more apostles were ordained, as the records indicate. The New Testament does not address every issue. Besides, we don’t have all the records about everything that transpired among them. Many things went on that were not recorded or if they were recorded they got lost.

"Some have espoused the idea that the Apostles were just twelve men whom Christ ordained for a specific mission–and were thus no longer needed after the Church was established in the world. However, it is admitted by some prominent Christian scholars that the Apostles "did not live to see the Church fully organized and at work,“9 and the New Testament record is quite clear that when vacancies occurred in the Twelve they were promptly filled. Matthias was chosen to take the place of Judas, who betrayed Jesus (Acts 1:23-26), and Paul said he had been “called to be an Apostle.” (1 Corinthians 1:1) Barnabas was called an Apostle along with Paul by the writer of Acts (probably Luke), (Acts 14:14) and apparently Jesus’ brother James had become an Apostle, for Paul reported to the Galatians that on a trip to Jerusalem, “other Apostles [besides Peter] saw I none, save James the Lord’s brother.” (Galatians 1:19)10 Polycrates, bishop of Ephesus near the end of the second century, reported the tradition that Philip had become “one of the twelve Apostles.””

Please provide the references for prominent Christian scholars.

They may not have used the word “President”, but it was evident Peter was the Senior Apostle. Peter was clearly regarded by Jesus Christ as the Senior Apostle. I don’t think you dispute that, do you? That is why he became the leader of the Church after the death of Christ.

Again, the bible does not use the term “presidency”. However, it makes perfect sense to use the Model of Deity for most presidencies in the Church. That is not only a symbolism, but also a model that works in practice.

The Father presides; the Son and the Holly Ghost are equivalent to counselors! Peter, James and John were like a presidency! Jesus took them together for many events. Even Moses had Aaron and Joshua to assist him.

They were like a “presidency”? Still that is an LDS title. Not a biblical term.

 

[evanfaust]

Why do you have Mission Presidents? Never saw that mentioned in the Bible]

As I mentioned before, Mormons do not try to make the exact replication of the Church Christ organized, just the basic organization, which the Catholic does not even have. However, Mormons are a global Church established in about 150 countries with more than 60 thousand missionaries. It is obvious that this has to be organized and sub-divided with someone to preside the various missions of the Church. As you read the Old Testament you see Moses organizing Israel in groups and choosing men to be the “heads” or “rulers” over these groups.

Stop making excuses. Show me where there were Mission Presidents in the Bible.

Quote:
5. Why do you send out, for the most part, only 19 year olds and golden-age missionaries? Never saw that mentioned in the Bible.

During the Church Christ established, He sent out mainly the Apostles and the Seventies to preach the gospel. But today, the need is a much bigger; the population of the world is around 7 billion people. Going on a mission at 19 is not scriptural, but more of a tradition. Age is not relevant here. One does not need to be 19 to go on a Mission; we also have couples (around 60 yeas old) who will also go on a mission. I served my mission when I was 22 years old. Again, this is one more reason why we need continuous revelation in a changing world.

I was 24. But that dodges my questions. Show me where Jesus sent out 19 year old men and 21 year old women

Quote:
6. Why do you have Sunday School Presidency? Never saw that mentioned in the Bible

Do you think the Saints (members of the church) used to gather to learn more about the gospel? Did they have Teachers? Of course! The New Testament clearly said they had teachers. If they had teachers, it does not seem far fetched to imagine they had someone to preside over the teachers. If you take into account the example Moses left by naming men to be “heads” over them, it makes sense to extrapolate it to every organization in the Church. Even if they did not have Sunday School Presidents, today we have such a need for better coordination and organization. We do not have all the records of went on in the church at that time, so you cannot say they did not have President over their teachers.

Show me in the Bible…after all YOU made the claim of how much you resemble the NT Church. SHOW ME

Quote:
7. Why do you have a Patriarch who gives Patriarchal blessings? Never saw that mentioned in the Bible as part of the Church Jesus orgainzed in 33 AD

Evangelist and Patriarch are considered the same position. This is part of the restoration of “everything” to happen in the last days.

Another dodge. Show me in the New testament where Jesus said we must have Patriarchs to give Patriarchal Blessings

Quote:
8. Why do you have 70s Presidency? Never saw that mentioned in the Bible

We have Seventies like in the primitive Church and also like during the time of Moses! Does the Catholic have Seventies? Of course not, Catholics do not even have Apostles and Prophets! Again, we do not claim to exactly replicate the Church of Jesus Christ, just the basic organization. Of course we must have a need for more Seventies and they will continue to multiply as the Church grow. It is obvious that this growth requires presidents or “ heads” over certain group of people! But we have the Seventies and Apostles and Prophets, nobody else even make such claims? We are the only Christian Church that truly resembles the organization Christ established on the earth.

Actually, what you have shown is that you are the furtherest thing from resembling the NT Testament Church. All you have done is prove my point
Quote:
9. Why do you have Elder’s Quorum Presidency? Never saw that mentioned in the Bible

After what I explained above, do I really need to explain this one? Same principle!

Yep…same principal…you do not resemble the NT Church

Quote:
10. Why do you have a Bishopric with counselors? Never saw that mentioned in the Bible

Just read again what I said about the First presidency. It applies here too.

COLOR=“Blue”]Yep…same principal…you do not resemble the NT Church

Thank you for proving my point. Your Church is nowhere near resembling the NT Church! Yours is man-made, not Christ-made

Intelectual honesty SirThomasmore! Your arguments are childish! Actually, they are not even considered arguments! You completely ignored what I presented here! I even lost interest in responding your “rebuttal”. Very flimsy!

Maybe you can show me in the Bible that the head of the Church is a Bishop Pope that does not talk to God!

 

[evanfaust]

Sometimes, the stories of Joseph Smith and Mohammed are very similar.

And so are some of their ideas…

coime to think of it, there is more to this than meets the eye…

9/11------- Mormons salughter innocent civilians at MMM (1857)
9/11------- Muslims slaughter innocent civilians in the TT (2001)

Has anyone ever looked into the similarities before? Might be interesting. Dunno, never thought of till just now. I am not one to see conspiracies everywhere, but this DOES look a little coincidental

No offense intended to anyone…I am genuinly interested in these similarities. Any insight is welcome

Be Blessed!

These types of criticism leads nowhere! You are trying to denigrate a whole religion based on the action of a few individuals!

I am sure Muslism do not feel comfortable for the action of their extremists! Those extremist do not represent the values or essence of their religion, especially when the majority practice similar good values that you have. The action of a few individuals do not necessarily represent the values of that religion. I think that is obvious, but maybe it needs to be clarified to some people!

The same way Mormons don’t like to be judged for the mistake of the a few Mormons in the Meadow Massacre! Those who comitted such atrocities will be punished by the Lord in this life or the next! A religion is a lot more than that! Have you tried to study the Catholic Church to see the injustices that may have also been done? Don’t you think people know about them? Let’s have a healthy debate and focus on the facts and not try to smear other’s religion! That does not serve for any good purpose!

 

[evanfaust]

Please provide the references for prominent Christian scholars.

Lax,

Here it is:

Robert M. Grant, Second Century Christianity (London: Society for Promoting Christian Knowledge, 1946), 9.

 

[evanfaust]

They were like a “presidency”? Still that is an LDS title. Not a biblical term.

Is “Trinity” a biblical term?..of couse not! … And yet the majority of Christians believe in a “Trinity.”

 

[stormy99]

Just tell me why Mormon missionaries fail to mention to investigators, Joseph Smith and his extreme polgamy, Brigham Young and his really extreme polgamy. The Celestial Kingdom where men can become Gods…Isn’t there only one God? Temple work for the dead whether they want it or not, Masonic symbols on their garments. There are many other things that are never said that come as a rude awakening to a new convert unless they’re lucky enough to learn it ahead of time. They can argue all they want about being a restoration…but I can’t see tje need for a restoration founded by anyone who uses a rock and a hat.

Tell me where is Jesus in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints…not in the sacrament meetings…not his love…not in the way the members act to those who aren’t Mormons…Jesus is forgotten in this church…All Christian Holidays and Holy Days are ignored…why…why is the Church locked on Christmas Day? Why is the General Conference more important than Easter Sunday?

Why does the Catholic Church not recognize a Mormon baptism as Christian?

stormy

 

[evanfaust]

Early Christians would rather be martyred for their faith than kill innocents.

I am not defending the mistakes of a few Mormons in the Meadow Massacre, but you will find some interesting stories in the scriptures by some prominent men of God.

Elijah for example, twice called down fire from heaven to destroy groups of 50 men sent by the king to arrest him (2 Kings 1:9-12)! Elijah slew a hundred. Moses also slew a man he caught harming another (Exodus 2:11-14), yet God chose him to be a prophet. Another biblical prophet, Elisha, angered because young people were taunting him because of his bald head, called she-bears out of the woods to devour them (2 Kings 2:23-24).

 

[evanfaust]

Just tell me why Mormon missionaries fail to mention to investigators, Joseph Smith and his extreme polgamy, Brigham Young and his really extreme polgamy. The Celestial Kingdom where men can become Gods…Isn’t there only one God? Temple work for the dead whether they want it or not, Masonic symbols on their garments. There are many other things that are never said that come as a rude awakening to a new convert unless they’re lucky enough to learn it ahead of time. They can argue all they want about being a restoration…but I can’t see tje need for a restoration founded by anyone who uses a rock and a hat.

Tell me where is Jesus in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints…not in the sacrament meetings…not his love…not in the way the members act to those who aren’t Mormons…Jesus is forgotten in this church…All Christian Holidays and Holy Days are ignored…why…why is the Church locked on Christmas Day? Why is the General Conference more important than Easter Sunday?

Why does the Catholic Church not recognize a Mormon baptism as Christian?

stormy

Should you give meat to an infant, when he needs milk? Isn’t that a teaching by the Apostle Paul? We want to teach new people just the basics, then we will feed them meat when they are ready! It is a biblical principal.

Jesus Christ is the center of Mormonism! Without Christ there is no Mormonism. I feel the Love of Christ in the Mormon Church and I always felt him there, and I have been converted to Mormonism aroud 30 years ago. By the way have you been to a Mormon Sacrament meeting? We use Christ’s name in every sacrament meeting. Easter is wonderfull days for Mormons! We sing hyms about the resurrection of Christ and the sacrament message is also about his resurrection. In General Conference we always talk about Jesus Christ, and I mean ALWAYS! All our messages are centered in Jesus Christ…have you noticed the name of the Mormon Church? That is why we carry HIs name under the name of the Church. It is there for a purpose!

 

[evanfaust]

Jesus left us everything we need. We do not need continuing revelation to spread the gospel. What do Mormons receive in revelation that is an “add on” to what Jesus taught?

Lax,

If that is the case, then why would the Book of Revelation talks about prophecy and prophets and new teaching in the Latter Days?

*“And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.” Rev 11:3

“And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.” Rev11:10*