Mormon Doctrine that has changed

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We truly can’t forget that the reason he was in jail was because he ordered (I know the LDS will say the counsel ordered, but who are we kidding about who was in control?) the Expositer Printing press destroyed (he never heard of freedom of the press). The reason he wanted it destroyed was the press was exposing polygamy, etc.

He was a criminal wanted in several places who had a gun in jail and shot at people before he was killed.
 
TexanKnight said:
We truly can’t forget that the reason he was in jail was because he ordered (I know the LDS will say the counsel ordered, but who are we kidding about who was in control?) the Expositer Printing press destroyed (he never heard of freedom of the press). The reason he wanted it destroyed was the press was exposing polygamy, etc.

He was a criminal wanted in several places who had a gun in jail and shot at people before he was killed.
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That is the thing with Joseph Smith that comes out time and again: actions that put others around in him in jeopardy. A friend of mine is a judge here in SLC, she says that she looks for the accused person to show remorse for how their actions have affected other people. Without that, she’s sure that they will continue to commit crimes. The opposite is, continued lies to hide what they have done.

That being said, she looks on criminals with compassion and hope that the person will be able to make it to that point. For a lot of criminals it takes time in prison. I can’t see that Joseph Smith ever did reach that point. You just never know, if his life had not been cut short, it is possible he could have “come around”.
 
Telstar said:
Thank you for posting this account of what happened, Rebecca. I agree that the mob was out to kill them, and that was certainly wrong on their part. They decided to take the law into their own hands because they were afraid that he’d find a way to escape, again. But, for LDS to make it seem as if the brothers were ‘martyred’ is a gross misstatement of facts given the circumstances, as well as by taking into consideration Joseph’s propensity for breaking the law of the land, whenever it served his own purposes. I don’t believe they were killed solely for their religious beliefs, as much as for their complete disregard for the law, that they didn’t seem to think applied to them. Joseph would tell them that God wanted something done, so they would follow his orders even if it was against the law, because they believed he was a real prophet. Joseph justified everything he did by claiming that God directed them to do it.
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I agree that he wasn’t killed for religious purposes. Mormons believe he was, though, I’ve never seen what beliefs, exactly, they think caused a mob to form and murder him. There were other non-Christian/Restorationist sects and similar communal cults, none of whom were murdered for what they were practicing or believed.
 
RebeccaJ said:
Mormons have the mentality that it was a war. Smith had built up a Mormon Militia, with himself as the general of course. They use the term martyr for Smith because they believe he died for what he believed. He isn’t a Christian martyr, he is a Mormon martyr. Mormon martyrs go down fighting. They weren’t fighting for Jesus, they were fighting for Joseph.

http://www.lds.org/museum/exhibit/images/d87_mr.jpg

Also, they are fed one side of the story from a very young age. Smith’s actions that got him into trouble, repeatedly, are left out. He had a habit of making advances towards young girls and married women. His most severe tar and feathering episode was a result of targeting a young girl who had older brothers. They had plotted castration, but the Dr. they had convinced at first, backed out.
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As I understand from my Mormon friends, Joseph Smith was a martyr — and of course it was in defense of the restored gospel of Jesus Christ so for me he was fighting for Jesus.
He was killed because the critics of the time, among other reasons, thought if they killed Smith that would end the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.

2012 will the church’s 182nd year so the critics and killers of Joseph Smith did not end Mormonism.
 
TruthLiving said:
As I understand from my Mormon friends, Joseph Smith was a martyr — and of course it was in defense of the restored gospel of Jesus Christ so for me he was fighting for Jesus.
He was killed because the critics of the time, among other reasons, thought if they killed Smith that would end the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.

2012 will the church’s 182nd year so the critics and killers of Joseph Smith did not end Mormonism.
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They killed him and Hyrum over political activity, the Mormon Legion which they saw as a threat, practice of polygamy and the destruction of a printing press. Not because they were trying to wipe out a church. This is clearly stated by people who witnessed the events. Joseph wasn’t defending Mormonism, he was defending himself, his brother and his friends. He never stated any doubts about the Mormon church continuing.

The mob wasn’t trying to end Mormonism, they were trying to end Joseph Smith, who was the one approaching political figures with promises of a Mormon block vote, general of the Mormon Legion, the one practicing polygamy while lying and saying he wasn’t and the one who ordered the destruction of the printing press. If they were trying to end Mormonism, they would have killed all the Mormon leaders in Nauvoo. They didn’t plan any deaths but those of Joseph and Hyrum. Leaving the others in the jail cell to live, and every Mormon outside of it.

Mormonism continues. 🤷 So do a whole lot of other religions. That continuity of a religion doesn’t make a person right, or a martyr.
 
TruthLiving said:
As I understand from my Mormon friends, Joseph Smith was a martyr — and of course it was in defense of the restored gospel of Jesus Christ so for me he was fighting for Jesus.
He was killed because the critics of the time, among other reasons, thought if they killed Smith that would end the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.

2012 will the church’s 182nd year so the critics and killers of Joseph Smith did not end Mormonism.
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First, you may stop the charade. We know you are LDS.

As to fighting for Jesus, Jesus forbade that even when it was to protect himself. Joseph was fighting to protect himself. He was a criminal committing more crimes.

He was killed because he broke too many laws, stole too many wives, took too much money, ran from too many warrants, and broke the law.

We just pray that our LDS brothers come to that realization…
 
TexanKnight said:
First, you may stop the charade. We know you are LDS.
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They certainly have dodged that haven’t they.

Neither denying it or admitting it.

Again, it is unjust and unethical to deliberately mislead.

The lack of honesty or clarity I see as cowardly IMO.

Perhaps they are ashamed of their affiliation? Who knows?
 
TexanKnight said:
These are doctrine from the original Mormon Doctrine by the man who would be an Apostle, Bruce McKonkie.

Anti-Christ- ALL who belng to apostate (non-LDS) Churches of the day.

Anasthansian Creed: " by far the most senseless and incomprehensible but the one Catholic defenders feel called upon to raise for its clarity.

Baptism: One great apostate organization, the Catholic Church, places so much emphasis on baptism that they baptize infants.

Belief- no one who has knowledge of Book of Mormon can believe in Christ unless he believes in Book of Mormon.

Book of Mormon: There are a number of Biblical prophesies foretelling the coming forth of the Book of Mormon.

Catholicism: See “Church of the Devil”

Celestial Marriage: Many Catholic Priests and Nuns are bound by vows of celibacy. Celibacy is a evil, wicked system.

Church of the Devil: The Roman Catholic Church is designated as being the most abominable above all other churches.

Creation: Celestial time is the time that prevails on the planet Kolob.

Cross: Apostate Churches use the symbol of the cross

Damnation: Believers in apostate Christianity will reap damnation to their souls

Dark Ages: direct outgrowth of the restraint imposed by that great apostate church (Catholic) that has Satan as its founder

Excommunication: Blessings lost and person is delivered to the Devil.

Holy Father: The Catholic Church gives this title to the Pope and the title is blasphemous.

Infant Baptism: No more damnable doctrine was ever taught.

Joseph Smith: As a pre-existent spirit he had ranked with Adam and Abraham.

This is just a few samples of Mormon Doctrine that has been changed.
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According to my Mormon friends, if anyone chooses to not believe in the Book of Mormon, that is their choice.

The church of the devil statement is false about Catholicism.

The degrees of glory continue to misunderstood.

The pre existance continues to be misunderstood — all of this according to my Mormon friends, regardless of where Joseph Smith ranked.
 
Christian orthodoxy condemned premortal existence because it was putting the human in the state of eternal…same as God, always was, is and will be.

How much can you defend Mormonism when you should be defending the true deposit of faith given us by Jesus Christ to His apostles, His successors…who, like the Mormon quorum claims rights…the apostles, no less, had the same rights to choose successors under the guidance of the Holy Spirit.
 
TruthLiving said:
According to my Mormon friends

I pray that you will learn to be honest about who and what you are.

, if anyone chooses to not believe in the Book of Mormon, that is their choice.

I believe the book exists. It is NOT inspired scripture, regardless of what anyone believes.

The church of the devil statement is false about Catholicism.

I agree it is false. But, it IS LDS Doctrine though not taught anymore and it WAS taught when the first edition of the book was written

The degrees of glory continue to misunderstood.

The degrees of glory is misunderstood because it is not from God

The pre existance continues to be misunderstood — all of this according to my Mormon friends, regardless of where Joseph Smith ranked.

It is misunderstood because it is a false doctrine founded by Joseph
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TexanKnight said:
First, you may stop the charade. We know you are LDS.

As to fighting for Jesus, Jesus forbade that even when it was to protect himself. Joseph was fighting to protect himself. He was a criminal committing more crimes.

He was killed because he broke too many laws, stole too many wives, took too much money, ran from too many warrants, and broke the law.

We just pray that our LDS brothers come to that realization…
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I have not identified what faith I have so you can drop the “I am LDS” bit. I believe in Christ.

Regardless of what anyone believes, why do some feel it is their obligation to convince others to not believe what others choose to believe??? Is freedom of religion under assault?
 
TruthLiving said:
I have not identified what faith I have so you can drop the “I am LDS” bit. I believe in Christ.

Regardless of what anyone believes, why do some feel it is their obligation to convince others to not believe what others choose to believe??? Is freedom of religion under assault?
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Freedom of religion under assault? Now there is a stretch.

The whole point of discussion boards like this one is to discuss, and sometimes disagree.

Part of that process is pointing out errors on one side or the other.

With that being said, it is far from being an assault of religious freedom.

Just to let you know. The whole “persecution” card thing doesn’t play well with most people here.
 
We are obligated as Christians to the Truth.

And yes, the big spin right now is that Mormonism didn’t teach anti-Catholicism.

This practice began to take back seat in the 1990’s until the contemporary Mormon prophet said in 1997 no more. Mormons considered the Church to be the harlot, Babylon.

However their recent ‘King James Bible’ tv program came right to the door of our Church and implied through misrepresentation that the Catholic Church was preventing the Word of God from being learned by its followers.

Our liturgies have focused on the Word of God since their beginning back to times prior to 100 AD. Problem is that most people couldn’t read, Bibles were rare because they were so expensive to make, and Luther came at the same time as the invention of the press.

So none of these factors could prove the Church was withholding the teaching of the Word of God and the Gospel.

On the contrary, even in plagues, bishops were exhorting their believers to help not only Christian victims of plagues, but also non-Christians, to the point of laying down their lives for them.

God called us to live in faith, and that requires certitude of faith, not dissension and disputes.

It is all about Truth.

I don’t want a compromised belief.
 
TruthLiving said:
I have not identified what faith I have so you can drop the “I am LDS” bit. I believe in Christ.

I choose not to drop it. Your posts are pretty clear about what you are. If I am wrong, so be it. But, if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck…

Regardless of what anyone believes, why do some feel it is their obligation to convince others to not believe what others choose to believe??? Is freedom of religion under assault?

Nope. People come to this CATHOLIC site by choice. An assault is when you are attacked unwillingly and without a choice. People here have a choice. They can choose not to read the threads…they can choose not to visit this particular board, and they can choose not to visit this website.
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TruthLiving said:
According to my Mormon friends, if anyone chooses to not believe in the Book of Mormon, that is their choice.

The church of the devil statement is false about Catholicism.

The degrees of glory continue to misunderstood.

The pre existance continues to be misunderstood — all of this according to my Mormon friends, regardless of where Joseph Smith ranked.
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Well since you are relying on second hand information and arent relyign on your own personal experience of being a Mormon (ie “according to my Mormon friends”) then you are the one who is vulnerable to misunderstanding LDS teachings.

For those of us who actually have lived it, taught it, were full blown TBM’s, it’s not second hand information dependent upon the words of another, but first hand.

We aren’t the one vulnerable to misunderstanding teachings. 🙂
 
TruthLiving said:
Regardless of what anyone believes, why do some feel it is their obligation to convince others to not believe what others choose to believe??? Is freedom of religion under assault?
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Isn’t that basically what LDS missionaries do, would you say they are assaulting freedom of religion?
 
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