Mormon Eternal Marriage

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When a Mormon is sealed to a spouse for eternity, what happens in those situations in which one or the other spouse isn’t really that great? Maybe even arguably abusive? They’ve been sealed and are stuck?
LDS doesn’t have purgatory, through which someone would be perfected and cleansed of their sins, so the suffering spouse doesn’t have that to look forward to.
As a Catholic in a tough marriage, I believe in sticking it out and ‘offering it up’ while here on earth, but there are times when I’m awfully glad it’ll be over one day.
That said, even if it wasn’t, I could at least count on purgatory to cleanse my husband and myself of our problems.
The whole eternal marriage thing sounds great if everyone is living well and striving for holiness, but for many…oy vey!
 
Good thing the catholic service says “til death do us part…” ,
 
The whole eternal marriage thing sounds great if everyone is living well and striving for holiness, but for many…oy vey!
The Beatific Vision is even greater, especially seeing the LDS belief is false, anyway. 🤷
There’s no such thing as Celestial Marriage.
 
Don’t see why you can’t have both, but I prefer a different kind of hieros gamos than the Mormon one.
Remember Fleetwood Mac’s song “Sara”?

Drownin’ in the sea of love
Where everyone would love to drown.


The Beatific Vision is like that: raw Spirit-to-spirit contact with God, the intellect’s concept of God being replaced by the Reality. The intellect knows Him at its greatest capacity, and the will loves Him at its greatest capacity. A union of knowledge and love with the only One who can satisfy our true desires, the End for which we were created.
This union includes the union of knowledge and love of all of the other blesseds and the angels: “The Sea of Love”. The blessed’s love for his spouse and for the angels and other blesseds is far greater than his spousal love could ever have been on this Earth. (assuming they’re both in Heaven, of course!)

Sexual relations and having children are for this life only.
 
There’s a lot we humans don’t know about how God’s perfect justice and God’s perfect mercy blend together. But one thing I think LDS and Catholic agree on - there’s no sin in God’s presence in heaven. So, by definition, there’s no “stuck”.

LDS folks do have sealing cancellations in various circumstances, and yes some of us do divorce here in this life.
 
My seer-stone tells me you’re stuck. But maybe the hat I put it in wasn’t dark enough.

:manvspc:
 
The Beatific Vision is even greater, especially seeing the LDS belief is false, anyway. 🤷
There’s no such thing as Celestial Marriage.
The OP is asking an honest question from the Mormon perspective. I don’t think it’s necessary in this thread to remind the predominantly Catholic audience that we have disagreements with Mormonism.
 
The OP is asking an honest question from the Mormon perspective. I don’t think it’s necessary in this thread to remind the predominantly Catholic audience that we have disagreements with Mormonism.
I went over to LDS.net for an answer, since I don’t seem to be getting any LDS answers here.
 
The OP is asking an honest question from the Mormon perspective. I don’t think it’s necessary in this thread to remind the predominantly Catholic audience that we have disagreements with Mormonism.
Beg your pardon!!! :confused:

Tsuzuki,** not the OP**, stated that he doesn’t know why we can’t have both the Beatific Vision and a version of Celestial Marriage:
Don’t see why you can’t have both, but I prefer a different kind of hieros gamos than the Mormon one.
Fiasco’s response was a VERY basic description of the Beatific Vision, simply to show that nothing else can compare with it, including marriage in the next life. An honest answer.
The only thing that should have been stressed more : everyone in Heaven retains his individuality.

So much for "I don’t think it’s necessary…disagreements with Mormonism."
That sounds a like a variant of samadhi.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samadhi

Thelema includes the concepts of both samadhi and hieros gamos, so I know they’re not mutually exclusive.
Lousy eyesight prevents reading of that article. IF Samadhi is about practices in this life, it’s not relevant to the BV description.
You ought to re-read that (sawn-off) description of the Beatific Vision a few times, and contemplate its “ramifications”.

As you already know, in my own case at least, there’s no point in referencing Thelema, or anything else to do with Crowley.
 
You aren’t the only one reading my posts, nor are you my main target audience.
???

Any practising Catholic in the know would say exactly the same about** Crowley and his hideous outpourings!!!**
Presumably, that’s what your dig meant.

In cases like this, we won’t be judged on whether we succeeded or failed, but whether we tried. And that’s a consolation! 🤷

Bite marks on tung. (deliberate misspelling)
 
It’s okay to admit it if something is over your head. I also dismissed Crowley until the evidence of my own ignorance became overwhelming.
More condescension, driven by a sort of gnosticism.
The Truth must be over your head.

i know enough about Crowley and various episodes in his depraved life to understand how evil he was.
In an attempt to be a practising Catholic, i stay clear of the demonic. And like you, i’m no diplomat. (especially after the fuse has blown!)

“A man cannot serve two masters…”

Call it a day. 🤷
 
Yes, please do steer clear of Crowley, so you can continue to lose arguments against Thelemites.
You’re right up to a point: during a sermon a few years ago, the priest warned us against arguing with the demonic powers.
 
When a Mormon is sealed to a spouse for eternity, what happens in those situations in which one or the other spouse isn’t really that great? Maybe even arguably abusive? They’ve been sealed and are stuck?
LDS doesn’t have purgatory, through which someone would be perfected and cleansed of their sins, so the suffering spouse doesn’t have that to look forward to.
As a Catholic in a tough marriage, I believe in sticking it out and ‘offering it up’ while here on earth, but there are times when I’m awfully glad it’ll be over one day.
That said, even if it wasn’t, I could at least count on purgatory to cleanse my husband and myself of our problems.
The LDS church does have a procedure in place for Mormons to unseal themselves from someone in the case of divorce. Though it may matter to them the whole thing is pointless anyway because there is no such thing as celestial marriage. Christ says in the New Testament that there is no marriage in heaven–we will “neither marry nor be given in marriage” in heaven (Matthew 22:30). Like Mormonism itself, eternal marriage is something Joseph Smith made up with another one of his many “revelations,” none of which are true. He was a complete and utter fraud, a false prophet, and actually a pretty bad person when you look at his actual history–not the romanticized, rosy one that the LDS church puts forward.
The whole eternal marriage thing sounds great if everyone is living well and striving for holiness, but for many…oy vey!
If you spend any amount of time thinking it through, though, eternal marriage is not great because the whole idea makes absolutely no sense. The worst thing about the idea of eternal marriage is that LDS are taught that if they fail to be sealed in the temple, they will lose their family in the hereafter. So they grow up believing that they must do this or else.

On a side note, eternal marriage in the Mormon church still allows for polygamy, even though the LDS church says it no longer practices it. An LDS man can be sealed for eternity to another woman if his first spouse dies, and they will be his plural wives in the celestial kingdom. An LDS woman, on the other hand, cannot be sealed to more than one man in her lifetime because she cannot have two husbands in the celestial kingdom.

The whole LDS idea of heaven then becomes very complicated very quickly with men and women becoming gods and goddesses over their own worlds, children being sealed to their parents for all eternity yet going off to their own worlds with their own eternal spouses at the same time. It’s a giant headache and most LDS really don’t bother thinking it through. The just accept it without question and move on to really important things like making sure they avoid caffeinated beverages or two-piece swimsuits.

The Catholic concept of heaven is much simpler. There is no marriage in heaven because every human being ever born is really our brother or our sister as we all have the same true Father—who is God. Marriage is meant for our earthly life as a way to raise families, but our true family is really the entire human race.
 
The whole LDS idea of heaven then becomes very complicated very quickly with men and women becoming gods and goddesses over their own worlds, children being sealed to their parents for all eternity yet going off to their own worlds with their own eternal spouses at the same time. It’s a giant headache and most LDS really don’t bother thinking it through.

The Catholic concept of heaven is much simpler. There is no marriage in heaven because every human being ever born is really our brother or our sister as we all have the same true Father—who is God. Marriage is meant for our earthly life as a way to raise families, but our true family is really the entire human race.
This is something I’ve never been able to get a clear answer on, either from LDS on this forum or in real life. How do they explain the complications with this concept?
 
Being sealed is contingent on both getting to the Celestial Kingdom. If one of them is abusive, then they won’t make it there, and their sealing is effectively dissolved.

Mormonism does have a kind of purgatory. It’s either spirit paradise or spirit prison that everyone goes to when they die to await the final judgement and resurrection.
This ^^^^ is the answer to the OP, all other tangental comments aside.

If one member of a couple who has been sealed does not live up to the covenants that they have made, they will not be exhaulted and the sealing becomes null and void. The righteous partner will have an opportunity to be sealed to another righteous member.

A great deal of temple work is expected to be done during what is called by Mormons, the Millenial reign of Christ.

As NT pointed out, in LDS teaching, God is a just God and it will all work out, even if Mormons don’t have all the information as to how the nuts and bolts will work out.
 
If you spend any amount of time thinking it through, though, eternal marriage is not great because the whole idea makes absolutely no sense. The worst thing about the idea of eternal marriage is that LDS are taught that if they fail to be sealed in the temple, they will lose their family in the hereafter. So they grow up believing that they must do this or else.

.
The Bolded part: Although that is often the cultural pressure that Mormons may feel from their teaching, it’s not the teaching itself, to be fair.

If I remember correctly, there are 3 levels of the Celestial kingdom, and only the highest level (“exhaultatio”) are those who have been “sealed”, but that does not mean that “families are lost forever”…

At the other two levels, Mormons are single, but are still very much in the Celetial kingdom. There is no teaching that I know of that says families stop being families. The teaching is, they are not exhaulted.
 
The Bolded part: Although that is often the cultural pressure that Mormons may feel from their teaching, it’s not the teaching itself, to be fair.

If I remember correctly, there are 3 levels of the Celestial kingdom, and only the highest level (“exhaultatio”) are those who have been “sealed”, but that does not mean that “families are lost forever”…

At the other two levels, Mormons are single, but are still very much in the Celetial kingdom. There is no teaching that I know of that says families stop being families. The teaching is, they are not exhaulted.
I disagree. LDS are taught all of there lives that if they want to be with their family forever, they must be sealed in the temple. They are taught this from the time they are little kids up to the time they die. Kids have to be sealed to their parents and couples have to be sealed in temple marriage. If they do not get sealed in the temple, they know good and well what that means–they will not be with their families forever.
 
I disagree. LDS are taught all of there lives that if they want to be with their family forever, they must be sealed in the temple. They are taught this from the time they are little kids up to the time they die. Kids have to be sealed to their parents and couples have to be sealed in temple marriage. If they do not get sealed in the temple, they know good and well what that means–they will not be with their families forever.
Yes, that is the cultural pressure. To look at the actual doctrine, it is possible to be in the Celestial kingdom and be single, just not exhaulted, though.
 
Christ says in the New Testament that there is no marriage in heaven–we will “neither marry nor be given in marriage” in heaven (Matthew 22:30).
Matthew 22:29 Jesus said to them in reply, You are misled because you do not know the scriptures or the power of God.

Unfortunately Matthew 22:29 is pertinent here. Matthew 22:30 clearly states that there will be no new marriages in Heaven. But, it does not say that existing marriages will be dissolved in Heaven. And 1 Peter 3:7 states that Eternal Life is obtained jointly as husband and wife.

Likewise, you husbands should live with your wives in understanding, showing honor to the weaker female sex, since we are joint heirs of the gift of life, so that your prayers may not be hindered.
 
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