Mormon friends Do the elite who run the LDS church brother you ?

[Publisher]

No, I don’t see the irony and I don’t think you do either.

Friend. The irony of decrying the wealth of self sustaining religious leaders who after leading a successful business or teaching profession and answer the call of their church to serve and quit their successful business against the leaders of the wealthiest religious organization in the world who lives…of CAN live in a palace and who’s every whim is his and his cardinals live not too much less than he.

Yes this thread is irony in written form itself.:sad_yes

 

[RebeccaJ]

Friend. The irony of decrying the wealth of self sustaining religious leaders who after leading a successful business or teaching profession and answer the call of their church to serve and quit their successful business against the leaders of the wealthiest religious organization in the world who lives…of CAN live in a palace and who’s every whim is his and his cardinals live not too much less than he.

Yes this thread is irony in written form itself.:sad_yes

I get your point, and agree to some extent. Why else would our beloved Pope Francis be singled out for not accepting these type of material trappings, if it weren’t expected that he should accept them?

BUT, LDS leaders do not quit their jobs to serve God, they change professions. The top LDS leaders sit on boards, for the for profit entities of the LDS Church, and are paid well enough to buy personal multimillion dollar homes and vacation homes.

All that being said, the commonality is human frailty and the tendency towards idolatry. None are infallible. The difference I see is, the Catholic Church has an understanding and teaches that attachment to material things is idolatry, where as, Mormonism teaches material things are a sign of God’s favor and material wealth should be accumulated. The only exception being, giving a required 10 percent to the Mormon Church.

So, if you are not wealthy, if you are living in poverty, it is an indication to a Mormon that you need to figure out what to get right with God so that God will bless you with material things. Is this what Christ taught? I don’t believe so.

 

[Publisher]

What you will never see in Mormonism, is anyone who has renounced all worldly possessions. Not a single Mormon exists, anywhere that I know of, let alone in a leadership position. Mormons I know would call such a person lazy and a free loader!

The irony is in the OP, where it is claimed by Mormons that successful business men have left lucrative work for…lucrative work. There is not a single Mormon leader who would or has renounced their worldly possessions, including the sacrifice of not having a family, to serve God. Not one who has showed their solidarity with the poor by having and keeping nothing.

The idea is so foreign to a Mormon they cannot answer the question being asked. The question isn’t about what one has, but what one does not have.

I’m sure the poor you speak of would give their left pinky to live as well and in the comfort of rich brocades and fur lined capes and tapestries, marble and gold to not be cold and hungry most of the time even if they didn’t own the material wealth. It was at their disposal.

The whole “Your apostles are wealthy but the hierarchy of our church own nothing and have no wealth of their own.” when they live in amazing luxury and have every wAnt and need met …I just shake my head.

To compare one giving up family to serve God as somehow more noble than serving God and raising a family baffles me as well. Didn’t your hierarchy gladly and willingly answer the call to service of your church? The LDS GC’s answered the call too!

I’m sorry, from an outsiders perspective, it looks petty for a Catholic to speak disparaging comparisons as to the wealth of another faith tradition when the wealth of the Catholic Church dwarfs any other,

 

[RebeccaJ]

I’m sure the poor you speak of would give their left pinky to live as well and in the comfort of rich brocades and fur lined capes and tapestries, marble and gold to not be cold and hungry most of the time even if they didn’t own the material wealth. It was at their disposal.

The whole “Your apostles are wealthy but the hierarchy of our church own nothing and have no wealth of their own.” when they live in amazing luxury and have every wAnt and need met …I just shake my head.

To compare one giving up family to serve God as somehow more noble than serving God and raising a family baffles me as well. Didn’t your hierarchy gladly and willingly answer the call to service of your church? The LDS GC’s answered the call too!

I’m sorry, from an outsiders perspective, it looks petty for a Catholic to speak disparaging comparisons as to the wealth of another faith tradition when the wealth of the Catholic Church dwarfs any other,

Yes, I said I get your point, but it is obvious you aren’t getting mine. I’m sure we are all hypocrites as we sit in our heated/air conditioned homes while typing on our iPads.

Have a blessed Palm Sunday.

 

[Publisher]

As far as hypocrisy goes, I did not decry the wealth of either Catholic or Mormon hierarchy, I have nothing against wealth. It was not the subject of their wealth my comments was concerned about. The respective leaders must determine how best to live out their God given Stewardship over “many things”…not at all, if my words suggested “hypocrisy " it was not about the wealth in the least… but the whole subject of their cost of living and net worth by comparing one somehow “more godly” is baffling…not to mention a discussion and comparing them…that any comparison could judge their standing before God…may have been what you sense as my thinking " hypocrite”

 

[RebeccaJ]

As far as hypocrisy goes, I did not decry the wealth of either Catholic or Mormon hierarchy, I have nothing against wealth. It was not the subject of their wealth my comments was concerned about. The respective leaders must determine how best to live out their God given Stewardship over “many things”…not at all, if my words suggested “hypocrisy " it was not about the wealth in the least… but the whole subject of their cost of living and net worth by comparing one somehow “more godly” is baffling…not to mention a discussion and comparing them…that any comparison could judge their standing before God…may have been what you sense as my thinking " hypocrite”

Who is more Godly is not the point. Who understands the teachings of Christ, is.

My point is, who understands what Christ teaches us. Mormonism does not.

Living according to that understanding is difficult for all, and I place no judgment on anyone, as you are.

But, Mormon leaders are living according to what they believe. They believe Jesus wants them to be wealthy. That wealth is a sign of God’s favor. No Catholic believes any such thing. No Catholic would ever teach such a thing.

I don’t see you get it but there is a HUGE difference going on.

 

[House_Harkonnen]

Hello Mormon friends,

I’m not knocking the church or the faith, but does it bother you that the leaders in your church are all wealthy men or powerful men ? I feel that a lot of the leaders in the LDS church preach from an Ivory Tower. How do you interpret their elite standings in life compared to your own, if you are just a regular guy like me?

I feel its easy to "Accept the gospel" or be "Content in life " if your an Airline Executive or

World renowned surgeon.

Thank you.

It would make me very uncomfortable about not so much the money, but the influence the Mormon Church wields over the secular powers of that particular state. Corrupt and shady dealings.

Even on the local level. My buddy had to move to Utah for a job. He is not Mormon and it was next to impossible to find a realtor that wasn’t discriminating against them when trying to buy a house. Its clear that they do NOT want non Mormons there. He ended up having to rent from a non Mormon.

 

[kimg901]

It would make me very uncomfortable about not so much the money, but the influence the Mormon Church wields over the secular powers of that particular state. Corrupt and shady dealings.

Even on the local level. My buddy had to move to Utah for a job. He is not Mormon and it was next to impossible to find a realtor that wasn’t discriminating against them when trying to buy a house. Its clear that they do NOT want non Mormons there. He ended up having to rent from a non Mormon.

This reminds me of a co-worker I had that tried to buy some property and was told no because he was not Mormon. This was 20 years ago but im sure it still happens.

 

[Stephen168]

The Pope sits on a throne. He CAN live in palacial luxury if he chooses to…many of his predecessors did. The Vatican is a palace
The Catholic hierarchy have a vast amount of wealth and power if the choose to exercise it. They can and some do live like royalty, having every need met.

I’m sure the poor you speak of would give their left pinky to live as well and in the comfort of rich brocades and fur lined capes and tapestries, marble and gold to not be cold and hungry most of the time even if they didn’t own the material wealth. It was at their disposal.

when they live in amazing luxury and have every wAnt and need met …I just shake my head.

As far as hypocrisy goes, I did not decry the wealth of either Catholic or Mormon hierarchy,

No, you did not decry the wealth of the Mormon hierarchy.

In the United States our flag officers are promoted by merit within the military system and live in big government houses and have lots of power. For our military to ask people of another military how they like the idea that their flag officers appear to be chosen by merit outside the military system seems reasonable.

It was not the subject of their wealth my comments was concerned about. The respective leaders must determine how best to live out their God given Stewardship over “many things”…not at all, if my words suggested "hypocrisy " it was not about the wealth in the least… but the whole subject of their cost of living and net worth by comparing one somehow “more godly” is baffling…not to mention a discussion and comparing them…that any comparison could judge their standing before God…may have been what you sense as my thinking " hypocrite”

You were the first person to post on this thread comparing and criticizing the the apart wealth of church hierarchy.

I understand that people who hate the wealth and influence of the United States would prefer to twist the question of how their flag officers appear to be chosen into a condemnation of how they live.

It seems wealth and influence outside the system is considered merit inside the system in Mormonism.

 

[RebeccaJ]

if is a different mindset. Mormonism favors an economic and spiritual type of Darwinism, where the economically strong are associated to spiritually strong and considered the fittest to serve God. Bloodlines matter, as a spiritual indication of predestination associated to supposed selection in a pre existence. The rich and the Mormon royal, two factors that influence the selection of Mormon leaders. If you’ve got both, God must favor you very highly.

There isn’t a comparable religious belief in Catholicism.

 

[NeuroTypical]

It’s always fun to watch these sorts of threads go by. It’s always so very, very, very easy to confess the sins of another person or group. I’ve been guilty of it too on occasion. But Publisher is making all my points for me, so I can stay clean this time.

Here’s my response to the thread: I thought Mother Theresa was one of the more wonderful examples of humility and Christlike love in the 20th century, who lived a life worth emulating. It’s a sorry commentary on the state of earthly souls, that her death was so utterly forgotten and eclipsed by the death of Princess Di a week later.

Anyone agree?

 

[Tarquin]

I’m sure the poor you speak of would give their left pinky to live as well and in the comfort of rich brocades and fur lined capes and tapestries, marble and gold to not be cold and hungry most of the time even if they didn’t own the material wealth. It was at their disposal.

The whole “Your apostles are wealthy but the hierarchy of our church own nothing and have no wealth of their own.” when they live in amazing luxury and have every wAnt and need met …I just shake my head.

Perhaps something needs to be said about the “every want and need” that has been mentioned. What do people want and need? What do Mormons want; what do they need? What do Catholics want; what do they need? Does anyone have a definitive answer?

I do not think Mormons and Catholics want (all) the same things; I do not believe they need (all) the same things. When I hear what many people say they “need,” I realize that my idea of what a “need” is, is categorically different from their idea of what a “need” is. I see that “amazing luxury” is also used differently by some, from what I understand “amazing luxury” to be.

Anyway, Mormons universally are materialists, so it would be natural if they put more weight on physical comforts and “luxuries”; whereas Catholics generally put more stress on the immaterial.

 

[Tarquin]

if is a different mindset. Mormonism favors an economic and spiritual type of Darwinism, where the economically strong are associated to spiritually strong and considered the fittest to serve God. … If you’ve got both, God must favor you very highly. …

There must be at least one modern Mormon General Authority who has risen to his current position in spite of, perhaps even because of, poverty that resulted from financial and other temporal sacrifices he made for the sake of others.

 

[RebeccaJ]

There must be at least one modern Mormon General Authority who has risen to his current position in spite of, perhaps even because of, poverty that resulted from financial and other temporal sacrifices he made for the sake of others.

Could be, but I’ve never heard of one.

 

[Kount_C]

It’s always fun to watch these sorts of threads go by. It’s always so very, very, very easy to confess the sins of another person or group. I’ve been guilty of it too on occasion. But Publisher is making all my points for me, so I can stay clean this time.

Here’s my response to the thread: I thought Mother Theresa was one of the more wonderful examples of humility and Christlike love in the 20th century, who lived a life worth emulating. It’s a sorry commentary on the state of earthly souls, that her death was so utterly forgotten and eclipsed by the death of Princess Di a week later.

Anyone agree?

Hi
I’m not pointing out any “Wrong doing” for lack of a better term. What I wanted to make was an observation, and statement, that for me it would be hard to be a LDS member and have to accept the teachings of the church from men, whom are often privileged. I can’t help but to think they are going through life as observers.

Much like, if Christ had not been crucified, how would God have empathy for any suffering for his followers on earth. I feel that is the disconnect from LDS apostles to common people.
I may not be articulating my information correctly, for that I apologize. I will post again today when I think of a better way to make my statement, but I find no fault in a man having wealth.

 

[NeuroTypical]

Hi Kount,

Oh, I understand your point, and I didn’t mean to come across as accusing you of any wrongdoing.

I found a quote on the subject from Dan Peterson, BYU professor and LDS apologist:

I don’t know that it’s fair to say that most of the General Authorities were “independently wealthy” at the time of their calls. Some were corporate executives or lawyers, but such careers still involve receiving a salary, not simply living off of one’s investments. (The point remains, though, that these men took substantial pay cuts to serve.) But others come out of academia, where the salaries are certainly not high enough to make one “independently wealthy.” And there are former pharmacists, small businessmen, farmers and fruit growers, dentists, career military men, and others among them.

I’ve spent time in certain General Authority homes. The condo that a member of one of the area presidencies in Frankfurt was living in was certainly not lavish. Pretty much a standard (non-student) apartment. And President Packer’s home, which he built himself, is just typically middle class.

 

[gazelam]

Hello Mormon friends,

I’m not knocking the church or the faith, but does it bother you that the leaders in your church are all wealthy men or powerful men ? I feel that a lot of the leaders in the LDS church preach from an Ivory Tower. How do you interpret their elite standings in life compared to your own, if you are just a regular guy like me?

I feel its easy to "Accept the gospel" or be "Content in life " if your an Airline Executive or

World renowned surgeon.

Thank you.

Here’s my $.02 worth…

For one thing they’re not all wealthy or powerful men. If the Airline Executive you’re referring to is Dieter Uchtdorf, he was introduced to the LDS church along with his grandmother while waiting in a food line in post WW II Germany. After his family moved from East Germany to West Germany his mother started a laundry business and he helped by delivering the laundry. He knows something of hardship in life and his able to encourage others as they struggle through difficult times in their lives. He like the other LDS leaders have served diligently in the local congregations for years and years before being called to run the LDS church.

The question posed seems along the lines of “Can there any good thing come out of Nazareth?” (John 1:46) I think we do ourselves a disservice when we decide that God can’t use certain people in His work. Abraham was a wealthy man (Genesis 13:2) and all those who are baptized into Christ become Abraham’s seed (Galatians 3:27, 29).

 

[RebeccaJ]

Here’s my $.02 worth…

For one thing they’re not all wealthy or powerful men. If the Airline Executive you’re referring to is Dieter Uchtdorf, he was introduced to the LDS church along with his grandmother while waiting in a food line in post WW II Germany. After his family moved from East Germany to West Germany his mother started a laundry business and he helped by delivering the laundry. He knows something of hardship in life and his able to encourage others as they struggle through difficult times in their lives. He like the other LDS leaders have served diligently in the local congregations for years and years before being called to run the LDS church.

The question posed seems along the lines of “Can there any good thing come out of Nazareth?” (John 1:46) I think we do ourselves a disservice when we decide that God can’t use certain people in His work. Abraham was a wealthy man (Genesis 13:2) and all those who are baptized into Christ become Abraham’s seed (Galatians 3:27, 29).

God can use who he will, but does not require a man to be successful by worldly standards. God does not require a man prove himself by raising his economic standing. Or, that it proves worthiness to lead.

Jesus was born in a stable, raised by a carpenter, crucified as a common criminal in the most humiliating way.

The Christian ideal is to follow Him. Difficult for everyone, but made more so when material wealth is presented as spiritually desirable…Jesus taught the complete opposite. His entire life was the completely opposite.

Matthew 19: 16-24

 

[RebeccaJ]

Perhaps something needs to be said about the “every want and need” that has been mentioned. What do people want and need? What do Mormons want; what do they need? What do Catholics want; what do they need? Does anyone have a definitive answer?

I do not think Mormons and Catholics want (all) the same things; I do not believe they need (all) the same things. When I hear what many people say they “need,” I realize that my idea of what a “need” is, is categorically different from their idea of what a “need” is. I see that “amazing luxury” is also used differently by some, from what I understand “amazing luxury” to be.

Anyway, Mormons universally are materialists, so it would be natural if they put more weight on physical comforts and “luxuries”; whereas Catholics generally put more stress on the immaterial.

I was thinking the same when I made my comment about sitting in our heated/air conditioned homes while typing on our iPads. What a luxury, compared the poverty all around us. As unreachable to very many as the finest palace or clothing. Not a matter of degree.

It is, ironically, a material view. These things, all of them, are nothing to God.

 

[Tarquin]

If the Airline Executive you’re referring to is Dieter Uchtdorf, he was introduced to the LDS church along with his grandmother while waiting in a food line in post WW II Germany. After his family moved from East Germany to West Germany his mother started a laundry business and he helped by delivering the laundry. He knows something of hardship in life and his able to encourage others as they struggle through difficult times in their lives.

Could you be more specific - what were the hardships in his life? Or by “hardship” were you referring to your previous statement that he worked for a business his mother started? I worked, too, as a child, but did not then, and do not now, think of it as a “hardship”. It was just work. I got some money out of it, so it was pretty cool, even when I was doing things I didn’t like.

It is “painfully obvious” that words used in forums carry different denotations - and even different connotations - for the people using and reading them.