Mormon Funeral - Help me understand

[lax16]

No. I am referring to blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, Mark 3:28-30.

Neither you nor I know whether or not a another person has blasphemed against the Holy Spirit.

So do Hell-bound people not get resurrected in Catholic beliefs?

Catechism of the Catholic Church:

Immediately after death the souls of those who die in a state of mortal sin descend into hell, where they suffer the punishments of hell, “eternal fire.” The chief punishment of hell is eternal separation from God, in whom alone man can possess the life and happiness for which he was created and for which he longs. (CCC 1035)

 

[lax16]

Lax,
I am sorry for your loss.

About 10 years ago I went to my Catholic grandmother’s funeral.
The priest shared a story he claimed to have heard from a Protestant minster.
He spoke about a conversation with a baby in the womb. The baby was warm, comfortable, and happy. But after hanging out for a little over 9 months there was coming a day of great fear. It would involve physical pressure and pain. It would abruptly eject the baby from this warm and comfortable place. The baby (in this story given adult/adolescent comprehension) was quite fearful of this impending day. But the priest who was counseling the baby didn’t dream of telling it to not go, don’t do it, it will not be worth it. Why? Because this Catholic priest like all in the room had been born and while there was pain and fear and even trials of life, none of us would counsel this baby not to do it.
If we were speaking to my grandmother from heaven, we would acknowledge the pain and fear she felt, but would attempt to communicate how such is a natural and wonderful progression not something to be feared.

As I tell my son when I attempt to console him, I am sorry for your loss. I have little idea if what I shared is of any value. If not, I apologize. I will pray for you and your friend.
Charity, TOm

Thanks, TOm. It was our next door neighbor that passed away.

That is a nice story the priest told, however we don’t know whether or not a person has made it to heaven or not.

I guess that is why I am confused by the confident “attitude” displayed at the wake.

 

[lax16]

I know!! That is how Mormon funerals are. Like it’s a sign of super faith to not cry at a funeral or something.

1. The Mormon afterlife isn’t much different than this life. People still repent. Can deny Mormon teachings. Perform missionary duties. Etc.
2. Every Mormon funeral is a missionary opportunity. You were being proselytized.

Everyone but a very few go to some level of heaven, in Mormon teaching.

The thing is, it was one big social hour. Nobody was even close to crying! Not because they do not love or miss their loved one, but because_________ (fill in the blank for me )

I worry about this attitude regarding death in Mormonism, especially because of the very high suicide rate here.

The woman thought I was Mormon, until she saw the look on my face when she mentioned our exalted bodies. I’m sure she asked who I was later!

 

[lax16]

You would be VERY confused at an Italian funeral.

I’ve been to a few. What is confusing?

 

[jane_doe]

Neither you nor I know whether or not a another person has blasphemed against the Holy Spirit.

My question was meant to be somewhat rhetorical, exactly for that reason. It appears that did not convey, sorry.

 

[zaffiroborant]

My question was meant to be somewhat rhetorical, exactly for that reason. It appears that did not coney, sorry.

Just to be clear I find your “Why cry, it’s not like you won’t see them again” flippant, heartless, and dismissive of the love between family and friends and the joy found in sharing the events in life, both small and large with people you love and the sorrow at not having them there for those events.

 

[lax16]

My question was meant to be somewhat rhetorical, exactly for that reason. It appears that did not convey, sorry.

So again the question is, how does one know that every person in that room is destined to see their family member again?

If they know that = cavalier attitude toward death
If they don’t know that = sadness about their beloved leaving them too soon, hoping to be reunited in heaven one day

 

[zaffiroborant]

The thing is, it was one big social hour. Nobody was even close to crying! Not because they do not love or miss their loved one, but because_________ (fill in the blank for me )

I attended a Mormon funeral for a co-workers brother, her brother was a convert so the funeral was a mix of Mormon and Catholic. There was a lot of crying, from his huge Mexican family and no kleenex in sight, I had to leave right away and pick up my kids but as I got in the truck I realized I had 2 boxes of kleenex, I ran them into Jillian my co-worker and the deceased’s sister. She laughed but took the kleenex. Every other funeral or wake I’ve attended kleenex was sprinkled around.

 

[lax16]

I attended a Mormon funeral for a co-workers brother, her brother was a convert so the funeral was a mix of Mormon and Catholic. There was a lot of crying, from his huge Mexican family and no kleenex in sight, I had to leave right away and pick up my kids but as I got in the truck I realized I had 2 boxes of kleenex, I ran them into Jillian my co-worker and the deceased’s sister. She laughed but took the kleenex. Every other funeral or wake I’ve attended kleenex was sprinkled around.

Funny, I was crying so much while speaking with the deceased man’s wife that I was looking around for a tissue and there wasn’t a tissue box anywhere. My crying made her feel very uncomfortable and I felt bad about that. However, what could I do? I was there on behalf of my family and everyone was very sad and sent their condolences.

I think there were some wrapped tissues in a basket but I’m not sure.

 

[lax16]

Just to be clear I find your “Why cry, it’s not like you won’t see them again” flippant, heartless, and dismissive of the love between family and friends and the joy found in sharing the events in life, both small and large with people you love and the sorrow at not having them there for those events.

This man died 20 years too soon. And it was unexpected.

My 88 year old uncle died a few months ago after a long illness and there were a few tears at the wake but a lot at the funeral mass and cemetery.

I don’t know - this really threw me off which is why I posted this thread. Just want to get some background on the beliefs that obviously leads to behaviors that are different than what I am used to.

 

[zaffiroborant]

Funny, I was crying so much while speaking with the deceased man’s wife that I was looking around for a tissue and there wasn’t a tissue box anywhere. My crying made her feel very uncomfortable and I felt bad about that. However, what could I do? I was there on behalf of my family and everyone was very sad and sent their condolences.

I think there were some wrapped tissues in a basket but I’m not sure.

Like Saellis said below, they will cry in a testimony meetings over everyday mundane things yet some dying and no longer there to share the joys and sorrow in this life is nothing to cry over. It makes no sense to me.

The absence of crying comes as a surprise to me because there is so much of it on fast and testimony sundays.

 

[lax16]

Like Saellis said below, they will cry in a testimony meetings over everyday mundane things yet some dying and no longer there to share the joys and sorrow in this life is nothing to cry over. It makes no sense to me.

Non-Mormons in Utah talk about this a lot. We wonder why the LDS men cry so much, even at work.

 

[zaffiroborant]

Non-Mormons in Utah talk about this a lot. We wonder why the LDS men cry so much, even at work.

Why would you cry at work? You should watch some LDS conference if you like to watch people cry for inexplicable reasons.

 

[lax16]

Why would you cry at work? You should watch some LDS conference if you like to watch people cry for inexplicable reasons.

During pep talks and motivational speeches.

Oh, I know about general conference.

 

[RebeccaJ]

The thing is, it was one big social hour. Nobody was even close to crying! Not because they do not love or miss their loved one, but because_________ (fill in the blank for me )

I worry about this attitude regarding death in Mormonism, especially because of the very high suicide rate here.

The woman thought I was Mormon, until she saw the look on my face when she mentioned our exalted bodies. I’m sure she asked who I was later!

There’s the view that Mormon beliefs regarding death, coming from Joseph Smith, were a reaction to the death of his brother Alvin. At was close to this time that he began to teach that death wasn’t really death. The person lives on and is taking care of business elsewhere. Some Mormons compare death of one of their own to having a loved one off on a mission. Sure they’re gone but not really gone. God has called them, in the Mormon usage of the word calling. God has a mission for them in the spirit world. Life goes on, as is normal for a Mormon life, for the dead.

There is the sense that you picked up that the newly departed are immediately reunited with loved ones who have passed on previously. So they imagine a young man is reunited with all the dead ancestors and they are all working together to bring more dead to proxy temple work. Mormons spend an extraordinary amount of time and effort on the dead. They believe they continue this effort for their fellow dead in the next life.

Which brings in the aspect of Mormon temples which exist to perform more rites for the dead than for the living. For Mormons, the dead aren’t dead or in jeopardy for an unfavorable judgment at their death. Mormons do not believe that we are judged at the moment of our death. Everything just goes on as it is now, in their belief.

So sure sadness at funerals, tempered by a belief that the spirit of a dead Momon continues on as usual. As earthly usual. Learning, doing missionary work, preparing other non Mormon spirits to accept the rites the living Mormns are doing as proxies in their temples.

It is dealing with death by denial that death ends one’s earthly life. The next life is the same as this life, just with extra benefits like immortal bodies and eventually godhood for some. A step on the ladder towards becoming gods.

Also, you have my sympathy for your loss.

 

[MaryT777]

Jane Doe,

Thanks for your contribution to this thread. I just read it and I appreciate you giving the Mormon though and answers to the questions asked.

I think the issue is a Catholic would not presume to know if there was a “Judas or Cain” there as we can’t judge the soul of another in Catholic thought, only God can do that.
Catholics do not just assume everyone will be in heaven so that’s the difference here.

I’ve learned a lot about Mormonism from this thread and thanks again!~
:tiphat:

Towards a better understanding of each other…

Mary.

 

[ajcstr]

I’ve been to a few. What is confusing?

My way of saying a LOT of crying at Italian funerals (I was responding to someone who said they didn’t understand the crying), not so much at Irish, a lot of it is cultural.

And when I say Italian, my father was born in Italy and my mother was first generation born in America so it may be an “old country” cultural thing.

 

[ajcstr]

Catechism of the Catholic Church:

Immediately after death the souls of those who die in a state of mortal sin descend into hell, where they suffer the punishments of hell, “eternal fire.” The chief punishment of hell is eternal separation from God, in whom alone man can possess the life and happiness for which he was created and for which he longs. (CCC 1035)

And… keep reading… CCC 1038 The resurrection of all the dead, “of both the just and the unjust,” will precede the Last Judgment. This will be “the hour when all who are in the tombs will hear [the Son of man’s] voice and come forth, those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of judgment.” Then Christ will come “in his glory, and all the angels with him. . . . Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate them one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats, and he will place the sheep at his right hand, but the goats at the left. . . . And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

And after that?

See above

 

[jane_doe]

Hi Lax.

I now have the time to give a more thorough answer (sorry about before). My condolences for the loss of your friend. I have also realized that my knowledge of Catholic post-mortal life beliefs is only super basic. So I’m going to write this for a general Christian audience and I’ll try to keep it short (feel free to ask for elaboration, this explanation is simplified).

LDS post-mortal beliefs do differ from mainstream Christianity. There is no Heaven/Hell binary or fear of “did I pass?”. Rather, everyone is given ample opportunities to come to Christ, even if they did not do so in this life. Loved ones that have come unto Christ await in Paradise (different than the traditional “Heaven”) until judgement. In the meantime, their spirits are very much alive: looking after us and going about God’s work.

Before the Final Judgement, everyone will be resurrected to a body far more wonderful than we have now. Hence, your friend’s unwavering doubt in that regard. These bodies will be free of pain & sickness, including the cancer which took your friend’s life. I would guess that talking about your friend’s resurrection was the lady’s way of mourning and looking forward to that day: there is great hope and assurance in this belief.

After the Final Judgement, there is no Heaven/Hell binary. Rather there are only* degrees of happiness and glory. God, in His great grace and mercy, gifts everyone far more then they ever deserved from their actions and beliefs here. Even a serial murderer who still rejects Christ gets a lesser degree of happiness and glorious residence. This “lesser” happiness that is described as being so wonderful that’s it’s beyond mind-boggling to our current human perception.

The people whom have accepted Christ and followed Him, an even greater happiness awaits: a eternal beyond happiness with the Father, Son, Spirit, and all of our loved ones whom have likewise embraced Christ. LDS believe that a family may be “sealed” together, so that they are together eternally.

(Next post tying this to your friend specifically)

*Only = exceptions for the <0.01% of people whom were close enough to God and then later blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.

 

[jane_doe]

At an LDS funeral, there is sadness & mourning that we don’t get to see our loved one tomorrow, and that they will be gone for a while. And yes, some LDS do cry at funerals, including myself (note: I cry at about every occasion). **But in addition to the sadness of not seeing them for a while, funerals are also a moment of great faith & hope in Christ. Faith in His resurrection and atonement, so that we all may live together again. **