Mormon History

  • Thread starter Thread starter Mom_of_5
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
M

Mom_of_5

Guest
A good source for Mormon history can be found on PBS Frontline. “The Mormons”. I have only watched the first part, but found it to be a fair picture of Mormonism, interesting and informative for anyone who does not have good knowledge of Mormon history. It is not likely to “convert” anyone to Mormonism, nor convince strong Mormon believers to leave their faith, although it may get them to take a second look at the founder of the faith, Joeseph Smith, and then, Brigham Young. This young church has history that can be readily traced. I plan to watch the second half when I have the time (2 hours)to watch.

Love and prayers,

Mom of 5
 
A good source for Mormon history can be found on PBS Frontline. “The Mormons”. I have only watched the first part, but found it to be a fair picture of Mormonism, interesting and informative for anyone who does not have good knowledge of Mormon history. It is not likely to “convert” anyone to Mormonism, nor convince strong Mormon believers to leave their faith, although it may get them to take a second look at the founder of the faith, Joeseph Smith, and then, Brigham Young. This young church has history that can be readily traced. I plan to watch the second half when I have the time (2 hours)to watch.

Love and prayers,

Mom of 5
I myself really enjoyed the documentary. Ms. Whitney was quite impressed by the church. Tal Bachman (a critic from the film) claimed that between his first meeting with her and his second after about a year, she had fallen in love with the church. He said that the critics who thought this would be a huge expose of Mormonism would be disappointed. It also seems that PBS and/or Frontline required Ms. Whitney to revisit it purportedly to make it a little more objective and less pro-Mormon (though unlike critics lamenting her love for the church against their desire and prejudice these reports come from members speaking with their prejudice).
I found the video focused a little more on the problems with the church than on the positives, but such is to be expected for a news program. Some LDS who appeared in the program lamented the fact that their intellectual arguments were cut rather than weighed or addressed. They claimed that this left the impression that if you can believe it, it is great to be a LDS, but it is hard to overcome the problems and believe.
I would also agree that it is not LIKELY to influence either conversions or departure from the faith. That said, I know of one conversion that resulted rather directly from the program and at least one family that often attended who expressed concern about what they learned. I have no follow up contact or info with/on either the convert or the family.

Here is the documentary website:
http://www.pbs.org/mormons/

Here is a great interview with Helen:
http://mormonmisc.podbean.com/2007/04/30/helen-whitney-the-mormons/

Here is the interview with Tal (he speaks about the documentary at 37:50 -
http://thechurchisnottrue.com/files/NOT-2006-07-24.mp3

Charity, TOm
 
A good source for Mormon history can be found on PBS Frontline. “The Mormons”. I have only watched the first part, but found it to be a fair picture of Mormonism, interesting and informative for anyone who does not have good knowledge of Mormon history. It is not likely to “convert” anyone to Mormonism, nor convince strong Mormon believers to leave their faith, although it may get them to take a second look at the founder of the faith, Joeseph Smith, and then, Brigham Young. This young church has history that can be readily traced. I plan to watch the second half when I have the time (2 hours)to watch.

Love and prayers,

Mom of 5
I have seen it too, though I had a hard time staying awake. There wasn’t anything in there I didn’t know already and it came on the heals of a long arduous weekend.

I thought it was balanced. I know Ken Clark, one of the former mormons who was interviewed. He was a listening ear to some of my woes as I extracted myself out of mormon employment. He too wished that some of what was cut from his interview was in the documentary.

There are time constraints, it would be impossible to let it run on and on with lengthy interviews. Also, I don’t believe the documentary was going for “preaching” from either side. It never comes across as that. Just a presentation of both sides, which from my pov, was done well.

Regarding how it affected people’s faith in the religion. I heard a few devout mormons go a little nuts over the statement by one of the mormon apostles that “truth doesn’t matter”. But I don’t believe it caused them to leave the mormon church.
 
Are these made by mormons for mormons?
No, I don’t think so. I think that the people involved are mormons but they are made for the general public who are interested. I believe that this website deals with african-americans who are mormons. There is an explanation of the video on the webpage and a review.

ldsgenesisgroup.org/
 
No, I don’t think so. I think that the people involved are mormons but they are made for the general public who are interested. I believe that this website deals with african-americans who are mormons. There is an explanation of the video on the webpage and a review.

ldsgenesisgroup.org/
This is a mormon owned and run organization. The documentary being discussed is an unbiased production of PBS.
 
I heard a few devout mormons go a little nuts over the statement by one of the mormon apostles that “truth doesn’t matter”. But I don’t believe it caused them to leave the mormon church.
Could you give me a little more on this without to much trouble?
My very distant recollection was that this statement was an edited down statement that in full context is not quite so troubling, but I am really not sure.
Charity, TOm
 
Could you give me a little more on this without to much trouble?
My very distant recollection was that this statement was an edited down statement that in full context is not quite so troubling, but I am really not sure.
Charity, TOm
It was Oaks who said it. I heard the comments when it first aired. I haven’t paid attention to anything that has been said in subsequent airings.

I found the Oaks interview at lds org. The correct quote is “Not everything that’s true is useful.” The context he puts it in is creepy, to me, but mormons seem to be ok with it.
 
It was Oaks who said it. I heard the comments when it first aired. I haven’t paid attention to anything that has been said in subsequent airings.

I found the Oaks interview at lds org. The correct quote is “Not everything that’s true is useful.” The context he puts it in is creepy, to me, but mormons seem to be ok with it.
I went and re-read it. I am not going to sing the praises of that concept.
Elder Oaks defends the idea that everything about George Washington is not useful to be shared especially if it is associated with problematic youthful things.
I can see how evaluating Thomas Jefferson’s thought would not necessitate discussing his extra marital affairs.
But, in the context of Mormon HISTORY, knowing what I know about what people like to discuss, it is not a concept I think is without problems.
The value of Thomas Jefferson’s thought has little to do with his affairs, but the truth claims of the church are linked to the affairs (extra marital and all) of our leaders. If you expose is on theology, perhaps such things are of less value. But if the question is within which religion will I worship God, these things seem important.

I guess, especially for folks who examine things thoroughly, I say look at the seamy underbelly too. I personally find much to celebrate in the full picture. I would also find gaps in the picture, present because someone choose to leave them out because of their usefulness, at least as concerning as the full picture.

Thanks, for digging up that.
Charity, TOm
 
This is a mormon owned and run organization. The documentary being discussed is an unbiased production of PBS.
What is mormon owned? Do you mean that the ldsgenesisgroup is made up of african-american mormons. Then, yes, it is mormon. Is the documentary done by mormons? Yes, I think so. But is it mormon owned? No, I don’t think so.

What is being discussed is mormon history and the african-american experience in the lds church is mormon history. I realize that african-american mormons such as Gladys Knight are very much involved in the lds church and perhaps they wanted to make a history of african-american involvement complete with warts, but that doesn’t make the videos any less compelling.
 
It was Oaks who said it. I heard the comments when it first aired. I haven’t paid attention to anything that has been said in subsequent airings.

I found the Oaks interview at lds org. The correct quote is “Not everything that’s true is useful.” The context he puts it in is creepy, to me, but mormons seem to be ok with it.
Here is the section that you refer to:

HW: You used an interesting phrase, “Not everything that’s true is useful.” Could you develop that as someone who’s a scholar and trying to encourage deep searching?

DHO: The talk where I gave that was a talk on “Reading Church History” — that was the title of the talk. And in the course of the talk I said many things about being skeptical in your reading and looking for bias and looking for context and a lot of things that were in that perspective. But I said two things in it and the newspapers and anybody who ever referred to the talk only referred to [those] two things: one is the one you cite, “Not everything that’s true is useful,” and that [meant] “was useful to say or to publish.” And you tell newspapers any time (media people) [that] they can’t publish something, they’ll strap on their armor and come out to slay you! [Laughs.]

**…missing paragraph. **

But not everything that’s true is useful. I am a lawyer, and I hear something from a client. It’s true, but I’ll be disciplined professionally if I share it because it’s part of the attorney-client privilege. There’s a husband-wife privilege, there’s a priest-penitent privilege, and so on. That’s an illustration of the fact that not everything that’s true is useful to be shared.

In relation to history, I was speaking in that talk for the benefit of those that write history. In the course of writing history, I said that people ought to be careful in what they publish because not everything that’s true is useful. See a person in context; don’t depreciate their effectiveness in one area because they have some misbehavior in another area — especially from their youth. I think that’s the spirit of that. I think I’m not talking necessarily just about writing Mormon history; I’m talking about George Washington or any other case. If he had an affair with a girl when he was a teenager, I don’t need to read that when I’m trying to read a biography of the Founding Father of our nation.

Overall the interview was very good and Dallin Oaks gave good responses. I suppose to put it in a catholic context, not everything that is true is useful could also be applied to the catholic church. We all tend to stress faith importantance and the positive in history. The negatives in history imply human imperfections but not necessarilty falseness in doctrine. And yet, these imperfections can affect a person attitude toward the faith. I know of many catholic who were deeply affected by the priest scandals. And so, that which is true is not always useful, right?

I also have to say that he was giving his opinions. One can agree or disagree but they are still his opinions.
 
What is mormon owned?
“**It was established in 1971 under the direction of President Harold B. Lee with the assistance of Elders Gordon B. Hinckley, Thomas S. Monson, and Boyd K. Packer. The current General Authority who oversees Genesis is Seventy President Ronald A. Rasband.”

**
 
i disagree with you on the priest scandal. the truth IS useful. the truth sets us free. without the truth being told those abuses would be even worse.
 
Here is the section that you refer to:

Overall the interview was very good and Dallin Oaks gave good responses. I suppose to put it in a catholic context, not everything that is true is useful could also be applied to the catholic church. We all tend to stress faith importantance and the positive in history. The negatives in history imply human imperfections but not necessarilty falseness in doctrine. And yet, these imperfections can affect a person attitude toward the faith. I know of many catholic who were deeply affected by the priest scandals. And so, that which is true is not always useful, right?

I also have to say that he was giving his opinions. One can agree or disagree but they are still his opinions.
I don’t think anyone views the “priest scandal” as useless. I’m not sure why you would.

And stop with “his opinion”. You know that mormons hang on the words of their apostles and prophets as if it were God Himself speaking to them. It always comes back to two question that no mormon has been able to answer.

How do you know when one of your prophets or apostles is speaking for God or speaking opinion?

And how is it that people view these speeches as divine representation one day, and opinion the next?

Not to mention whyme, this is a documentary. The mormon church knew this. They are not unfamiliar with the nature of documentaries. The person being interviewed is the person representing the church, as the authority for the church. It seems to me that you are saying that Oaks is not the best choice for this authoritative representation. Do you think that perhaps the makers of the documentary had a better option? Do you believe that the Holy Ghost was not guiding this Apostle of the Lord during his interviews with the film makers?
 
i disagree with you on the priest scandal. the truth IS useful. the truth sets us free. without the truth being told those abuses would be even worse.
True, but people very rarely bring it up. I don’t know on this forum if members bring it up too often. And that was my point. The truth will set you free is true. And I am sure that Dallin Oaks would agree. He gave an example of which I agree with. Is it always useful to see the dirty underwear of others? The media seems to think so. But is it useful to have it constantly paraded before our eyes? Maybe not.
 
“**It was established in 1971 under the direction of President Harold B. Lee with the assistance of Elders Gordon B. Hinckley, Thomas S. Monson, and Boyd K. Packer. The current General Authority who oversees Genesis is Seventy President Ronald A. Rasband.”

**
But what is mormon owned? Perhaps it is mormon run. And why not? The site is there to meet the needs of african-americans who are lds or who are interested in the lds faith. And that is a good thing in my opinion.
 
But what is mormon owned? Perhaps it is mormon run. And why not? The site is there to meet the needs of african-americans who are lds or who are interested in the lds faith. And that is a good thing in my opinion.
Point is, it is a mormon run organization. Instituted by your mormon prophet. Now overseen by one of your mormon apostles. Therefore, it is not unbiased.

I am not even sure why you brought it up. 😃

I’ll go find some random history thing and throw it in. Let’s see, how about, Kinderhook plates?
 
True, but people very rarely bring it up. I don’t know on this forum if members bring it up too often. And that was my point. The truth will set you free is true. And I am sure that Dallin Oaks would agree. He gave an example of which I agree with. Is it always useful to see the dirty underwear of others? The media seems to think so. But is it useful to have it constantly paraded before our eyes? Maybe not.
if we hide our past mistakes we risk perpetuating them. we have to denounce what is wrong. We catholics have to speak about things that are or were wrong in our church so that we can do Gods work. Mormons seem to hide their past not because they are ashamed of what some individuals did but because you can see in it evidence of fraud and orwellian shifts in doctrine that cast doubt on the whole concept of their prophets speaking directly with God and giving his words to the world. and Oaks is one of the more moderate on this subject look at what Boyd K. Packer said (and did) on this subject.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top