Salesmanship 101.Isaac, I don’t know why people would join a different faith if they would feel bad around the people with a different faith. To feel good around people and see that the people are great and good people who have the peace of christ inside them would be a draw to want to know more regardless of the faith.
Well, of course. Most people aren’t actually all that bad but everyone can get on someone’s bad side and some people have a tendency to get on everyone’s bad side. Yet other people tend to see the bad side of everyone rather than the good. I see a lot of good in Mormonism and in the people. I do not have a grudge against the church or any member of it. I love the majority of members I’ve come across. I just don’t love the history of the religion because I believe the truth is kept from the members, but that is being discussed in other threads and need not come into this one.Isaac, I don’t know why people would join a different faith if they would feel bad around the people with a different faith. To feel good around people and see that the people are great and good people who have the peace of christ inside them would be a draw to want to know more regardless of the faith.
This may be the case, but missionaries are not supposed to teach that part of the first vision - it gets into areas of the theology that missionaries don’t have access to clear answers about. Missionaries are only allowed to read certain books while on their mission so as to “avoid deception” by learning deeper doctrine and history of the church. While at the MTC, missionaires go through the temple every week so they will become accustomed to the strangeness of it. My temple president told me not to ask any man questions about the temple ceremonies because the answers are intended to come from God. From what I have felt, God seems to have told me they were all wrong, but that is just my own experience. I’m human, so I’m prone to error. I feel in every respect that it was a sin to take part in them.I knew about the devil’s appearance from the very beginning. That made the most sense to me.
Thank you for the generalization. However, this is not the case. As the thread relates the missionaries were not selling any products. They just sat in the back and observed.Salesmanship 101.
The elders are on-message, selling a product. There are certain things that a successful salesman must do, among them LOOK happy and successful, even if he isn’t.
I thought it would be good to clarify that missionaries rarely get a chance to go to the temple after leaving the MTC, even if they are on a mission where the temple is nearby. Investigators often ask “strange” questions, many of which are about the temple. If a missionary cannot go back to the temple in order to refresh their memory about these things, they cannot possibly give a clear answer to such questions. In that way, elders can only provide testimony to feelings they felt while in the temple.Missionaries are only allowed to read certain books while on their mission so as to “avoid deception” by learning deeper doctrine and history of the church. While at the MTC, missionaires go through the temple every week so they will become accustomed to the strangeness of it. My temple president told me not to ask any man questions about the temple ceremonies because the answers are intended to come from God.
I went to Mass every Sunday and went to confession once a month. And I remember eating fish and chips on Friday. Fish and chips was the only fish meal I could stomach. But we never celebrated these other things like feasts, lent etc. But my father was an usher during high mass until he stopped going to Mass. And I went to catechism until I made my confirmation.Two things about what you’ve written here.
First, no, it is not a sin, mortal or venial, for a Catholic to go into a different church.
Second, it is not likely that you were a “good Catholic as a boy.”
Probably because I’ve been on the site longer than you have. I’ve just been away for about a year.Hey Isaac! Why are you a regular member of the forum and I am still a new member of the forum and I have more posts than you? Strange.
You are a new member for I believe 30 days after you join no matter how many you have.Hey Isaac! Why are you a regular member of the forum and I am still a new member of the forum and I have more posts than you? Strange.
Fine, but this, which you wrote, is specifically what I was responding to:Thank you for the generalization. However, this is not the case. As the thread relates the missionaries were not selling any products. They just sat in the back and observed.
Well, Mormon friend, going to Mass and eating fish sticks on Friday isn’t what constitutes a “good” Catholic, which you would know very well if you’d ever been one. I’m sorry to be so blunt, but I can’t think of a nicer way to put this. You’ve described yourself as having been a “good” Catholic, but done so only in terms of having been a regular at Mass. It appears, based on your own description, that you missed the entire point of the Christian religion. The religion is about the person of Jesus Christ, and his saving work in the hearts of men.I went to Mass every Sunday and went to confession once a month. And I remember eating fish and chips on Friday. Fish and chips was the only fish meal I could stomach. But we never celebrated these other things like feasts, lent etc. But my father was an usher during high mass until he stopped going to Mass. And I went to catechism until I made my confirmation.
Not bad…and then when I was 16, I began to go to go back to church and attend the early mass on sunday, the 7.00 Mass.
The missionaries are always “in uniform,” during the period of time that they are officially on their mission. That is their fulltime job, during that period of time. They can’t release themselves from it. They only get released from it when they are officially released at the end of their missions.I wasn’t making any judgement about the particular missionaries at Mass. However, it bears noting that they were in uniform, and therefore ready for action.
Another possible explanation is that he discovered that he had been a part of an apostate religion; and he looked for and found the Restored Gospel of Jesus Christ, which is the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints; and he found his “personal, heart to heart meeting with Jesus the Savior” in that Restored Church, which he never found nor could have found in the apostate one which he was lucky enough to leave behind.Well, Mormon friend, going to Mass and eating fish sticks on Friday isn’t what constitutes a “good” Catholic, which you would know very well if you’d ever been one. I’m sorry to be so blunt, but I can’t think of a nicer way to put this. You’ve described yourself as having been a “good” Catholic, but done so only in terms of having been a regular at Mass. It appears, based on your own description, that you missed the entire point of the Christian religion. The religion is about the person of Jesus Christ, and his saving work in the hearts of men.
It seems very possible that you were a going-thru-the-motions type of Catholic. You may never have had a personal, heart to heart meeting with Jesus the Savior. And if this is the case, then you were not a “good” Catholic in the truest possible sense of that. This is why you fell into a false religion. You were never truly a member of Catholic religion in spite of your Baptism, confirmation, or Mass attentance, or adherence to dietary regulations. If you had been, Mormonism would never have held any attraction for you. I have never met anyone who, being properly catechised and formed into the Catholic faith, could conceive of leaving it for something so much less as Mormonism, or any of the other cults or sects.
Thanks, Zerinus. I knew that. I follow the email accounts of two missionaries in south America, the sons of my fiance’s sister. The fiance’s oldest son spent 2 years missionarying in Mexico after his Army service last year, and I know him well.The missionaries are always “in uniform,” during the period of time that they are officially on their mission. That is their fulltime job, during that period of time. They can’t release themselves from it. They only get released from it when they are officially released at the end of their missions.
zerinus
Ah, comes Zerinus, riding the horse (or is it a deer?) known as The Great Apostasy.Another possible explanation is that he discovered that he had been a part of an apostate religion; and he looked for and found the Restored Gospel of Jesus Christ, which is the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints; and he found his “personal, heart to heart meeting with Jesus the Savior” in that Restored Church, which he never found nor could have found in the apostate one which he was lucky enough to leave behind.
zerinus
Zerinus, I doubt that you’ll really give my post any thought simply dismissing it out of hand, however I feel the need to say that your accusation that the Catholic Church is an “apostate religion” is shocking. The whole concept of a “Great Apostatsy” in the first place is shocking - and why? Because the Church cannot perish.Another possible explanation is that he discovered that he had been a part of an apostate religion; and he looked for and found the Restored Gospel of Jesus Christ, which is the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints; and he found his “personal, heart to heart meeting with Jesus the Savior” in that Restored Church, which he never found nor could have found in the apostate one which he was lucky enough to leave behind.
zerinus
You’ve got to remember that Zerinus is a programmed LDS aparatchik who is hard-wired to do the Salt Lake Temple polka whenever anyone expresses any doubt about the Mormon cult. He has only been popping up srelectively lately, he’s taken some pretty good lumps at the hands of certain posters. Why Me puzzles me, he claims to be Catholic but I think that he’s a closet Mormon.Another possible explanation is that he discovered that he had been a part of an apostate religion; and he looked for and found the Restored Gospel of Jesus Christ, which is the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints; and he found his “personal, heart to heart meeting with Jesus the Savior” in that Restored Church, which he never found nor could have found in the apostate one which he was lucky enough to leave behind.
zerinus