Mormon Missionaries at Mass Sat. Night

[artist3189]

Sorry, I exaggerated in saying that about the white bread.

I’ve never been to a Tridentine Mass. Must go.

I don’t think you necessarily ‘exaggerated’ in your statement, it has become a more ‘protestant’ generic sort of presentation for sure, less spiritual mystery, so I agree, which I hope will change with the new Pope…he seems to be going in that direction anyway. Tridentine is really a nice change. I don’t’ belong to a Traditional church, but there is one close by and I go there once in a while to keep things in perspective. They have their problems too, sometimes with arrogance and self righteousness, which they have to deal with down the road, but the experience is really wonderful.

 

[Allweather]

I don’t think you necessarily ‘exaggerated’ in your statement, it has become a more ‘protestant’ generic sort of presentation for sure, less spiritual mystery, so I agree, which I hope will change with the new Pope…he seems to be going in that direction anyway. Tridentine is really a nice change. I don’t’ belong to a Traditional church, but there is one close by and I go there once in a while to keep things in perspective. They have their problems too, sometimes with arrogance and self righteousness, which they have to deal with down the road, but the experience is really wonderful.

I’d love to see one of the old Masses, done well, with great music. We’ve got one of the Lefevre groups here in town, but I don’t think we’re permitted to go there because of the schism. I’ve read that Benedict is working to bring them back into the Church, and that liturgical reforms are part of that. God knows, we need solid, conservative people in our Church. Hope they come back.

 

[artist3189]

I’d love to see one of the old Masses, done well, with great music. We’ve got one of the Lefevre groups here in town, but I don’t think we’re permitted to go there because of the schism. I’ve read that Benedict is working to bring them back into the Church, and that liturgical reforms are part of that. God knows, we need solid, conservative people in our Church. Hope they come back.

Right, right, right, Pius X’ rs need to be brought back now, as well as working hard on the Orthodox Church’s. We are so focused on converting Protestants, Mormons, etc, but I say, let’s put ALL our energy toward our ‘estranged’ CATHOLIC brothers and sisters first and get our ship back on course first, and not spend so much time trying to change the mind of non-Catholics who have no commonality with us to start with.

 

[cestusdei]

Here is my patented technique of determining whether someone is a real prophet or not:

Do they have a direct line to God that somehow gives them “special” privileges denied to others that involve sex, power, or money?

If they claim this then you know for certain they are not a real prophet.

 

[boppaid]

I went to Mass every Sunday and went to confession once a month. And I remember eating fish and chips on Friday. Fish and chips was the only fish meal I could stomach. But we never celebrated these other things like feasts, lent etc. But my father was an usher during high mass until he stopped going to Mass. And I went to catechism until I made my confirmation.

Not bad…and then when I was 16, I began to go to go back to church and attend the early mass on sunday, the 7.00 Mass.

you shouldn’t have to explai why you feel you were a “good Catholic”. You, yourself know why you were. Seriously, if you say you were, people should take you at your word.

 

[Allweather]

you shouldn’t have to explai why you feel you were a “good Catholic”. You, yourself know why you were. Seriously, if you say you were, people should take you at your word.

While I agree with you, boppaid, I must ask you: Do you think it is possible for a person who has been properly formed Catholic, to the point that he/she has a living relationship with God through the Church, and all the knowledge of the Church that that living relationship implies, to be convinced that some lesser version of Christianity, like Mormonism, is true? And to be so convinced of Mormonism, that he/she would LEAVE the Church and believe that the Church is apostate? Along with all the other strange teachings of that Mormon religion?

 

[zerinus]

My goodness why can’t you just tell everyone where to look so we all will know how to find the information that you have so everyone can read up on about the Apostacy???

I have done that so often that I have become bored to death of doing even that! You can start with the threads suggested in this post:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=1928472&postcount=29

After that you can have a look in this thread too:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=134335

Some of these threads are very long. You don’t need to read all the posts in each thread to get the gist of what I am saying. If you just read my posts you will have my views on the subject.

zerinus

 

[isaac.madsen]

I have done that so often that I have become bored to death of doing even that! You can start with the threads suggested in this post:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=1928472&postcount=29

After that you can have a look in this thread too:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=134335

Some of these threads are very long. You don’t need to read all the posts in each thread to get the gist of what I am saying. If you just read my posts you will have my views on the subject.

zerinus

I’ve just read through the majority of those posts and it seems to me they don’t address the issues posed in them. I didn’t receive answers, but rather have greater reason to question Mormonism because of the threads listed.

 

[cestusdei]

zerinus, what do you think of my above test of prophethood?

 

[zerinus]

I’ve just read through the majority of those posts and it seems to me they don’t address the issues posed in them. I didn’t receive answers, but rather have greater reason to question Mormonism because of the threads listed.

And so? What do you want me to do about that?

zerinus

 

[Kristine1957]

According to this about.com entry, the “Great Apostasy” is “The time after Christ’s death when the people turned wicked and killed the apostles and disciples, causing the Lord to take the Church, priesthood, and revelation away from the earth”. There is no date for this occurrence provided.

Act 3:19-21 is used erroneously used to illustrate how “The Apostle Peter prophesied that Jesus would restore His Church after the Apostasy”.

lds.about.com/library/glossary/bldefapostasy.htm

Thank you…I found this one (Mormon Beliefs) its pretty interesting In summary:

One by one, the Apostles were killed. Because of the persecution, surviving Apostles could not meet to choose and ordain men to replace those who were dead.
Eventually, local priesthood leaders were the only ones who had authority to direct the scattered branches of the Church. The perfect organization of the Church no longer existed, and confusion resulted. More and more error crept into Church doctrine, and soon the destruction of the Church was complete. The period of time when the true Church no longer existed on earth is called the **Great Apostasy. **

 

[Geocacher]

I have never seen the Mormon Missionaries outside of their normal rounds of their missionary effort, and never have heard of them attending a MASS in Detroit. Years ago I have probably seen them once, at my Grocery Store that I work at, but that is about it. They have done Disc Golfing on their Personal Days, where they try to evangelize those that are inactive,or just starting out, doing some outdoor recreation like going to Disc Golf courses. I was one of those Inactive Mormons, where they had gotten me out to do some Disc Golfing.

[Off Topic] Try this Google link> Trinity Mark 13
This is without quotes [/Off Topic]

 

[isaac.madsen]

And so? What do you want me to do about that?

zerinus

What do you think? I want you to provide solid evidence to support your conclusions. Isn’t that what everyone has been asking? If you’re tired of trying to do so, perhaps it is because you are incapable of doing so, and that’s not an attack against you. It’s a statement about the religion.

 

[isaac.madsen]

Thank you…I found this one (Mormon Beliefs) its pretty interesting In summary:

One by one, the Apostles were killed. Because of the persecution, surviving Apostles could not meet to choose and ordain men to replace those who were dead.
Eventually, local priesthood leaders were the only ones who had authority to direct the scattered branches of the Church. The perfect organization of the Church no longer existed, and confusion resulted. More and more error crept into Church doctrine, and soon the destruction of the Church was complete. The period of time when the true Church no longer existed on earth is called the **Great Apostasy. **

Same thing happened in Mormonism. If you haven’t noticed, the church split after Joseph died. It doesn’t matter that one group grew larger than the rest. According to your argument, another apostacy must have happened in Mormonism. The Apostles in Christ’s time were never commanded to ordain new ones. Neither were Joseph’s apostles given such a command, but Joseph DID prophecy that his own son should take his place as prophet after his death. It never happened.

 

[valient_Lucy]

This brings up an interesting problem that I had when I was a teenager in the early 1970’s. I loved the Walton’s. But the Walton’s were baptist. And since I was a good catholic as a boy, I had a desire to go into the baptist church to be like John-boy but I knew that it was a mortal sin to do so. And so I didn’t. Is it still a mortal sin to go into a different church?

It’s not a sin to go into a different church, or even attend a Protestant church service, provided 1 (if it’s a Sunday) you fulfill your obligation to attend Mass by attending the Sunday Mass and 2 you do not recieve communion in the Protestant service.

 

[Allweather]

Same thing happened in Mormonism. If you haven’t noticed, the church split after Joseph died. It doesn’t matter that one group grew larger than the rest. According to your argument, another apostacy must have happened in Mormonism. The Apostles in Christ’s time were never commanded to ordain new ones. Neither were Joseph’s apostles given such a command, but Joseph DID prophecy that his own son should take his place as prophet after his death. It never happened.

It may have happened to the Mormon church, but it is a fantasy to say that it happened to the Christian Church. That description of the onset of the so-called Great Apostasy is pure fiction. It is a fiction written by several cults and sects because they need an apostasy in Christianity to support the creation of their own religions. The Mormons aren’t alone in this claim. And nowadays the Mormons seem to be moving away from the claim, part of their efforts to offend the mainline Christians less, and seem more like them.

 

[isaac.madsen]

It may have happened to the Mormon church, but it is a fantasy to say that it happened to the Christian Church. That description of the onset of the so-called Great Apostasy is pure fiction. It is a fiction written by several cults and sects because they need an apostasy in Christianity to support the creation of their own religions. The Mormons aren’t alone in this claim. And nowadays the Mormons seem to be moving away from the claim, part of their efforts to offend the mainline Christians less, and seem more like them.

Fair enough, I guess, but there is no evidence there. I remain neutral on the subject as I can argue both sides to the same degree. The evidence seems to promote both ideas, depending on how the reader interprets it.

 

[christianley]

Fair enough, I guess, but there is no evidence there. I remain neutral on the subject as I can argue both sides to the same degree. The evidence seems to promote both ideas, depending on how the reader interprets it.

For me it simply became a matter of faith – did I believe what the Jesus said about the gates of death not prevailing against the Church or didn’t I? Did I believe what the Jesus said about sending the Spirit to lead the Church into all truth and being with them until the end of time or didn’t I? For me it came down to choosing between Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy because they were the only groups with legitimate claims to the ancient faith. I ultimately chose Catholicism because I felt Eastern Orthodoxy was too divided. The Great Apostasy idea really doesn’t make sense if you believe in the words of Jesus – it is impossible to find any Biblical support for the complete apostasy groups like the LDS portray.

As for missionaries attending Mass, that is not unusual. I see that quite a bit. On my mission in Latin America my companion had this crazy idea he was going to be like Paul and go into the other churches and convert entire congregations. It didn’t work out that way and our experience in one evangelical church was so spooky we quit going to non-Mormon services.

 

[isaac.madsen]

For me it simply became a matter of faith – did I believe what the Jesus said about the gates of death not prevailing against the Church or didn’t I? Did I believe what the Jesus said about sending the Spirit to lead the Church into all truth and being with them until the end of time or didn’t I? For me it came down to choosing between Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy because they were the only groups with legitimate claims to the ancient faith. I ultimately chose Catholicism because I felt Eastern Orthodoxy was too divided. The Great Apostasy idea really doesn’t make sense if you believe in the words of Jesus – it is impossible to find any Biblical support for the complete apostasy groups like the LDS portray.

For me, it isn’t really a great apostacy question either. I don’t particularly agree with that theory. I believe that Christ’s church is a Universal one. The big question then, is whether this “universal church” is a literal organization or literally all humanity who are willing to accept Jesus as Christ. I tend toward the latter as I do not believe I can trust in the accuracy of the Bible. Perhaps I could have nearly 2000 years ago (more like 1970 years or so) when those events were just beginning to take place as Christ began his ministry; today, however, history leads me to believe I can find a more accurate testament by appealing to the Lord himself. I am an absolute believer in the power of prayer and in faith and in the true lessons that can be derived from all good books.

 

[isaac.madsen]

As for missionaries attending Mass, that is not unusual. I see that quite a bit. On my mission in Latin America my companion had this crazy idea he was going to be like Paul and go into the other churches and convert entire congregations. It didn’t work out that way and our experience in one evangelical church was so spooky we quit going to non-Mormon services.

Now you’ve definitely caught my interest. You don’t have to tell more if it makes you uncomfortable. I’m just curious what you mean by “spooky” - it sounds like an interesting story.