Mormon Missionaries secretly teaching an underage girl

[Cowboy_Pete]

Mass is not correctly compared to missionary lessons, apples to oranges and all. …

Do you believe the Chruch is the one established by Christ with Peter as it’s head?
Do you believe Pope Benedict is Christ’s vicar on earth? What does that mean to you?
Or ask them to make commitments such as
Will you read and pray to know that the CCC hold the teachings of Christ’s true and only church on earth?
Will you pray to know that the Pope is Christ’s vicar on earth?
Will you attend church with us next Sunday?

After reading your excellent sample questions and considering your arguments, I concede the point, Zaff. I concede that my Mass analogy was foolish and ill-conceived.

Would you agree with me that Rebecca’s example of offering wine to a mormon child is a better example? Because Catholics did offer me wine as a child, knowing that I was LDS, and yes, my parents were quite offended. They were even more offended when a French mormon family pressured my sister to drink. We never went over to those families’ houses again, and that’s the proper response for this scenario as well.

Would you really not be offended if mormons took your child to church with their kids on an overnight, like my Mass example?

As to your whiny and hyperbolic comment all that does is show that, in-spite of your words otherwise, you really don’t think this is an offensive practice.

Here again, you are very wrong about what I believe. I’m a lousy mormon, and a failure in many ways, but I’m still a better person than you give me credit for. All my “whiny and hyperbolic” comment shows is that as offensive and (more importantly) MORALLY WRONG as what these parents did, that what they did is not comparable to the Charles Manson murders. Do you seriously disagree? If you do not think that hosemonkey’s analogy to Charles Manson was hyperbolic, then I suggest that you consult the dictionary definition of hyperbolic.

 

[zaffiroborant]

After reading your excellent sample questions and considering your arguments, I concede the point, Zaff. I concede that my Mass analogy was foolish and ill-conceived.

Would you agree with me that Rebecca’s example of offering wine to a mormon child is a better example? Because Catholics did offer me wine as a child, knowing that I was LDS, and yes, my parents were quite offended. They were even more offended when a French mormon family pressured my sister to drink. We never went over to those families’ houses again, and that’s the proper response for this scenario as well.

I would be mad if someone offered any sort of alcohol and darned close to livid if they pressured my kid into it. I thought I made that clear when I supported what Rebecca said when she indicated she wouldn’t let kids do things she knew LDS parents would disagree with. As I pointed out my Catholic acquaintances even check with me before taking my children to church. This is the kind of respect I expect to see from other parents and what I try my best to give to other parents. I do this everyday working with the school lunch program in my district.

Would you really not be offended if mormons took your child to church with their kids on an overnight, like my Mass example?

The only thing offensive in this scenario is if the parents in question fail to check with me before taking my kids to a religious service.

Here again, you are very wrong about what I believe. I’m a lousy mormon, and a failure in many ways, but I’m still a better person than you give me credit for. All my “whiny and hyperbolic” comment shows is that as offensive and (more importantly) MORALLY WRONG as what these parents did, that what they did is not comparable to the Charles Manson murders. Do you seriously disagree? If you do not think that hosemonkey’s analogy to Charles Manson was hyperbolic, then I suggest that you consult the dictionary definition of hyperbolic.

Murder is listed in the 10 commandments, and it is a truly awful thing, Mansons murders go even beyond awful, really beyond words to describe, so no I don’t thing a comparison is accurate. Again with the apples and oranges. At the same time lying is also listed in the 10 commandments and this would include deceiving someone by withholding important information. Letting parents think their child will be eating pizza and playing video games all the while knowing they will in actuality be subjected to proselytizing the parents are blindsided by is simply lying.

Murder and lying are both part of the “big 10” they are both grave sins, they crush trust, community, and are, like all tools of Satan, an assault on faith.

 

[Cowboy_Pete]

I would be mad if someone offered any sort of alcohol and darned close to livid if they pressured my kid into it. … As I pointed out my Catholic acquaintances even check with me before taking my children to church. This is the kind of respect I expect to see from other parents and what I try my best to give to other parents. …
The only thing offensive in this scenario is if the parents in question fail to check with me before taking my kids to a religious service.

I absolutely agree.

Murder is listed in the 10 commandments, and it is a truly awful thing, Mansons murders go even beyond awful, really beyond words to describe, so no I don’t thing a comparison is accurate.

Exactly. That’s why I said that hosemonkey was being hyperbolic when he compared what the family did to Charles Manson’s murders. Do you disagree?

n. Letting parents think their child will be eating pizza and playing video games all the while knowing they will in actuality be subjected to proselytizing the parents are blindsided by is simply lying.

Absolutely. But it’s not “bearing false witness against thy neighbor” and therefore not part of the 10 commandments. Not to mention the obvious point that not every violation of the 10 commandments is equally evil.

I thought I made that clear when I supported what Rebecca said when she indicated she wouldn’t let kids do things she knew LDS parents would disagree with.

Oh, you did make your position clear. I was just curious if, when you found that I precisely agreed with your position, whether you would (1) change your position, or (2) continue to try to construe me as holding a different position. I mean heaven forbid that you should agree with a mormon on anything.

 

[Zooey]

This isn’t a church-wide thing; it’s a family and one set of missionaries that’s not respecting boundaries. I’d just restrict the child from visiting the one family.

Yes, it sounds to me like that family where the teaching is taking place have really gone way too far. I would not let a minor child visit any home where this kind of thing was being encouraged.
And that applies to any religious group, for that matter. I don’t see this as simply a Catholic vs Mormon situation. To me, it sounds like that the Mormon family who are having this go on in their home, need some lessons in proper conduct. It is outrageous to think that they would go against the parents of the child this way. They need to be ashamed of themselves.

 

[PbloPicasso]

I’ve run into many non-denominational Christians that do the same thing. In fact, my previous Church is guilty of the same, but they are not centrally organized and believe they’re saving lives. My wife and I staunchly objected to this after seeing it in action. My catholicity kicked in once I saw it in action. I objected but was surprised by many of the families lack of concern, with only a couple of exceptions. The irony is that the Catholics didn’t object. Duh.

 

[Zooey]

I’ve run into many non-denominational Christians that do the same thing. In fact, my previous Church is guilty of the same, but they are not centrally organized and believe they’re saving lives. My wife and I staunchly objected to this after seeing it in action. My catholicity kicked in once I saw it in action. I objected but was surprised by many of the families lack of concern, with only a couple of exceptions. The irony is that the Catholics didn’t object. Duh.

That is so true.
I ran afoul of it many years ago, at the hands of a group of pentecostals. They seemed to have no idea that they were doing anything at all out of the way.

 

[zaffiroborant]

Exactly. That’s why I said that hosemonkey was being hyperbolic when he compared what the family did to Charles Manson’s murders. Do you disagree?

No but I also don’t see one post as representative to the point you where you belittle complaints as whiny and overblown.

Absolutely. But it’s not “bearing false witness against thy neighbor” and therefore not part of the 10 commandments. Not to mention the obvious point that not every violation of the 10 commandments is equally evil.

It’s helpful to understand your views on the commandments and that you don’t believe it covers lying. This explains a lot.

Oh, you did make your position clear. I was just curious if, when you found that I precisely agreed with your position, whether you would (1) change your position, or (2) continue to try to construe me as holding a different position. I mean heaven forbid that you should agree with a mormon on anything.

I haven’t changed my position, I just see you agreeing with me to a lesser degree. We both find the behavior offensive, I find it deeply offensive you find it a minor offense.

 

[Telstar]

Exactly. That’s why I said that hosemonkey was being hyperbolic when he compared what the family did to Charles Manson’s murders. Do you disagree?

I think his reference was meant to compare the tactics used by Charles Manson to lure young people into his cult, to anyone that would use those same kinds of tactics on children, no matter what the particular group’s beliefs were. If they were being devious in their methods of proselytizing, then they were no different than he was in that respect. I think to say that he was comparing murder to proselytizing is way off the mark.

 

[Miriam1947]

Is our Cowboy Pete banned forever? Or is this a time out?

I do miss him and wish him well.

 

[pablope]

Is our Cowboy Pete banned forever? Or is this a time out?

I do miss him and wish him well.

I did not know he was banned…i thought he posted some this morning. He was suspended for 30 days…so I hope this is temporary…and I do wish him well.

 

[Telstar]

I did not know he was banned…i thought he posted some this morning. He was suspended for 30 days…so I hope this is temporary…and I do wish him well.

I noticed it earlier, but I have no idea what happened. I did see one short post from yesterday that’s been removed. I was actually working on a response to it but hadn’t posted it yet (have it saved in notepad). I hope that wasn’t the one that got him banned. Now, I wish I had finished and posted it last night.

Last time it just said he was suspended, not banned.

 

[zaffiroborant]

I did not know he was banned…i thought he posted some this morning. He was suspended for 30 days…so I hope this is temporary…and I do wish him well.

Being banned is not a temporary thing AFAIK, temporary would be suspension. If I’m not mistaken he was suspended twice.

 

[PaulDupre]

An update:

The mother had her husband call the mission president. The mission president promised to look into the matter and get back to him. Two days later, the president called back and reported that indeed the missionaries admitted to teaching this young girl without her parents knowledge, sometimes with the LDS parents present and other times when no parents were present (just the two 15 year-old girls and the missionaries). The president promised that this would never happen again and both missionaries were transferred the next day. He also promised to send a letter to all his missionaries restating the policy (no teaching kids without explicit parental permission and absolutely no teaching young girls without a parent present - permission or no permission).

The non-LDS girl’s parents are satisfied, but will never let their daughter go to that house again.

They still have a bad taste in their mouths about Mormons.

 

[Marie5890]

An update:

The mother had her husband call the mission president. The mission president promised to look into the matter and get back to him. Two days later, the president called back and reported that indeed the missionaries admitted to teaching this young girl without her parents knowledge, sometimes with the LDS parents present and other times when no parents were present (just the two 15 year-old girls and the missionaries). The president promised that this would never happen again and both missionaries were transferred the next day. He also promised to send a letter to all his missionaries restating the policy (no teaching kids without explicit parental permission and absolutely no teaching young girls without a parent present - permission or no permission).

The non-LDS girl’s parents are satisfied, but will never let their daughter go to that house again.

They still have a bad taste in their mouths about Mormons.

Glad to hear that this was resolved quickly.

 

[Marie5890]

Being banned is not a temporary thing AFAIK, temporary would be suspension.

I believe you are accurate in your understanding of CAF’s policy.

 

[twopekinguys]

An update:

The mother had her husband call the mission president. The mission president promised to look into the matter and get back to him. Two days later, the president called back and reported that indeed the missionaries admitted to teaching this young girl without her parents knowledge, sometimes with the LDS parents present and other times when no parents were present (just the two 15 year-old girls and the missionaries). The president promised that this would never happen again and both missionaries were transferred the next day. He also promised to send a letter to all his missionaries restating the policy (no teaching kids without explicit parental permission and absolutely no teaching young girls without a parent present - permission or no permission).

The non-LDS girl’s parents are satisfied, but will never let their daughter go to that house again.

They still have a bad taste in their mouths about Mormons.

Sounds like a good resolution.

 

[PaulDupre]

Glad to hear that this was resolved quickly.

And resolved about as well as it could have been.

Having been a Mormon missionary myself (and a district leader with a few “problem elders” of my own) I figured this was about how the prez would handle it. The LDS church does not call fools to be mission presidents. It is perhaps the most difficult calling in the church.

The LDS church does, however, occasionally call fools to be missionaries. Imagine having to supervise a few hundred immature and hormonal 19-21 year old boys (and a few young women) scattered over a wide geographic area and mostly on their own wandering around in pairs trying to convert people. Tough gig. Mission presidents have to deal with sickness, injuries, whiny parents, and the fallout from the foolish things the “elders” do (like the subject of this thread).

I give the president credit. He did alright.

 

[BigFellaMick]

Absolutely deplorable.

The age, 15, is a non issue. She’s old enough not to be called “under age” in this case.

What is deplorable is mormans conducting mission activity in the area.

I would recommend stopping the young lady from attending these services immediately and having her attend meetings with a Christian counsler (preacher, deacon) to have the mormon beliefs discounted by Biblical Truth.

I sincerely hope you’re able to stop this.

And after she learns that she can speak with a Priest to discount the falsehoods, shortcomings and sometimes heresies taught by protestants and non denominationals and can then learn the Truth of God in His only Church

 

[jesuspsr]

An update:

The mother had her husband call the mission president. The mission president promised to look into the matter and get back to him. Two days later, the president called back and reported that indeed the missionaries admitted to teaching this young girl without her parents knowledge, sometimes with the LDS parents present and other times when no parents were present (just the two 15 year-old girls and the missionaries). The president promised that this would never happen again and both missionaries were transferred the next day. He also promised to send a letter to all his missionaries restating the policy (no teaching kids without explicit parental permission and absolutely no teaching young girls without a parent present - permission or no permission).

The non-LDS girl’s parents are satisfied, but will never let their daughter go to that house again.

They still have a bad taste in their mouths about Mormons.

Good to hear:thumbsup:

God bless

jesus g

 

[Daywalker89]

Yes, if this pattern stays true to form, the LDS parents will encourage the 15 year-old to call them “mom” and “dad” and style themselves as her “new parents”. Then they will convince the girl that her real parents are “unworthy” and get her to cut off communications with them.

Absolute nonsense. I was a member of the LDS church for several years in my teens, and I can promise you I encountered nothing of what you described. At best you may or may not be referring to an isolated incident, at worst you’re wildly fabricating theories.

The missionaries are transferred and gone. Let’s not turn this into a paranoid Mormon hunt.