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Joe_Kelley
Guest
Glad to see it was peacefully resolved.
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Allegra
Guest
This is pretty hard to imagine.
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PaulDupre
Guest
I was a Mormon for 11 years of my adult life (ages 21 - 32). I saw this kind of thing way too often. And since I left the LDS church I have known many parents whose children were stolen from them in this manner, but they did not know what to do about it until it was too late and now they have no relationship with their children or their grandchildren, not through any fault of theirs but because their children feel that the parents are unworthy and because if the parents will not embrace Mormonism then they are “persecutors” from Satan.
This is the LDS way of getting total control of converts. It is so ubiquitous that there are support groups like “Mormons Have My Child”.
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Telstar
Guest
I’m glad it was dealt with and resolved quickly. I’m a little apprehensive about the fact that they were just transferred to a different area, though. Hopefully they learned an important lesson and won’t try it again in their new area. The situation of the missionaries being in a house with two 15 year old girls, without any parental supervision, is certainly a very serious concern. :ehh:
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Zooey
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It sounds to me like a good outcome.
I an VERY uncomfortable with the knowledge that the missionaries were meeting in the home with
2 minor girls! That is extremely poor practice, & hopefully the mission president will raise that issue with them as well.I do think it is wiser to not let the girl visit that home; the parents sound as though they are
untrustworthy. And at least as much to be blamed as the missionaries, for allowing and encouraging this kind of thing.
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Daywalker89
Guest
When I first permitted missionaries to give me lessons at home (I’d ordered a Book of Mormon online), my parents cautiously conceded. The missionaries and Church as a whole treated my parents with respect, knowing they were probably never going to convert. The Mormons even helped us move to different houses on two separate occasions (part of their “helping others” objective). Those are my personal experiences. Perhaps the wards I attended happened to just be the most angelic of all and all others are demented. Somehow highly unlikely.
At most, I was urged to pray for them and set an example of a Christ-like life to inspire them.
About these incidents you speak of, I’m interested in knowing how old the children were. Keep in mind that if these subjects rejected their parents, Mormonism may have had little to do with it. Religion may have been the ultimate excuse on the childrens’ part. Even if there were cases of cult-like brainwashing, it’s obviously sick and twisted, but such cases would have to be extremely rare.
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Miriam1947
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You know just because I am a cynic, I would ask for a cc of the letter sent to all missionaries.
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Tony888
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Paul, I believe your claims are a gross overgeneralization based soley on your opinion or second hand information. Legally that would be slander.
IF it is a pervasive as you claim, please provide some supporting evidence.
What I can imagine are some kids with troubled/broken homes being attracted to a more structrued and loving family, be they Catholic, Protestant or LDS. I can imagine any Christian parent opening their hearts and home to troubled friends of their children. If you think Catholics would not, please explain.
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Tony888
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Paul,
IF it is a pervasive as you claim, please provide some supporting evidence.
What I can imagine are some kids with troubled/broken homes being attracted to a more structrued and loving family, be they Catholic, Protestant or LDS. I can imagine any Christian parent opening their hearts and home to troubled friends of their children. If you think Catholics would not, please explain.
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maryjk
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I would too. Of course I am also a cynic.
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Marie5890
Guest
I was 15 when I joined the LDS church (in the 80’s). When I went thru the discussions not only did the missionaries have to have parental consent, when I was baptized, parental consent had to be given AGAIN. And in written form. Yes, my parents had to sign a form of consent.
I have a hard time believing that these policies have changed. I can see some eager young missionaries going a bit rogue but meaning no harm (remember we are talking young men aged 19-21 or young women 21-23…I cant see a senior couple teaching teenagers).
Mission presidents KNOW that keeping the reputation of of the missionaries in his area is of great value. The idea of “stealing young teens out from under their parents control” would be detrimental to their image. The LDS church is BIG on image and positive PR.
I should qualify that I am speaking of American missions only. Probably European too. I have no idea of what happens down in South America.
I have a hard time believing that these policies have changed. I can see some eager young missionaries going a bit rogue but meaning no harm (remember we are talking young men aged 19-21 or young women 21-23…I cant see a senior couple teaching teenagers).
Mission presidents KNOW that keeping the reputation of of the missionaries in his area is of great value. The idea of “stealing young teens out from under their parents control” would be detrimental to their image. The LDS church is BIG on image and positive PR.
I should qualify that I am speaking of American missions only. Probably European too. I have no idea of what happens down in South America.
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PaulDupre
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Marie,
As you can see from the update above, the policy hasn’t changed. These missionaries just did not follow the policy. It happens often enough, especially when the young girl involved is pretty. The 15 year-old girl in this case is gorgeous and I can see how a 19 year-old boy would be motivated to bend the rules in order to spend time with her. I am not quite so old as not to remember what it was like to be 19.
Often when a young person is influenced by Mormons to turn against her family it is not the doing of the missionaries, but rather a Mormon family will decide to “friendship” one of the childrens’ friends. “Friendship” is a verb in Mormonism - something you do to someone. Those who study cults call it love-bombing. They invite her to Family Home Evening, teach her about the pre-existence and eternal marriage and so forth, tell her that she is “special” and try to appear as the ideal family while subtly planting the idea that the young person’s own family is not so inspired or enlightened and not worthy of a child who is sooooo special.
Paul (formerly LDS, now happily Catholic)
As you can see from the update above, the policy hasn’t changed. These missionaries just did not follow the policy. It happens often enough, especially when the young girl involved is pretty. The 15 year-old girl in this case is gorgeous and I can see how a 19 year-old boy would be motivated to bend the rules in order to spend time with her. I am not quite so old as not to remember what it was like to be 19.
Often when a young person is influenced by Mormons to turn against her family it is not the doing of the missionaries, but rather a Mormon family will decide to “friendship” one of the childrens’ friends. “Friendship” is a verb in Mormonism - something you do to someone. Those who study cults call it love-bombing. They invite her to Family Home Evening, teach her about the pre-existence and eternal marriage and so forth, tell her that she is “special” and try to appear as the ideal family while subtly planting the idea that the young person’s own family is not so inspired or enlightened and not worthy of a child who is sooooo special.
Paul (formerly LDS, now happily Catholic)
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zaffiroborant
Guest
If you look into the LDS baseball baptism you’ll find a totally different story.
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valient_Lucy
Guest
What the missionaries show is not love, it’s manipulation. Love seeks the good of another person without expecting anything in return. A missionary being nice to someone in order to convert them is not showing them love, he’s using them to meet a conversion quota. It’s no different than an 18 year old boy seducing a 16 year old girl.
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paulp1002
Guest
This makes total sense; I would bet a majority of girls in that age group probably fantasize of the perfect fairytale wedding and having these young men tell them that they will be “sealed” for all eternity in the most beautiful temple they could imagine.
My ex-wife used to tell me that when she was younger all she fantasized about, was being sealed in the temple. The way she described it made it sound like a fairytale. That was the end of our marriage, because I couldn’t give her what she had dreamt about.
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Marie5890
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Very valid point that there is a large romantic Mormon cultural idea attached to being “sealed together for all eternity”. As I was 15 at the time I joined and thus in the YW programmed, it reeked of it.
And the “knight in shining armour” was an honorable RM. If he had been an AP while on his mission, even better.
I can remember when my sister came out to visit me while I was a student at BYU. She, a non-member, commented about how desperate everyone seem to be to get married.
Looking back, I can point out those couples who got married out of desperation and fear. There were many. They were afraid of not getting married or missing the opportunity if they didnt now. We are talking 17-25 year olds.
The pressure at BYU to get married and FAST was extreme at the time (the 80’s). I dont know if that is still true.
And the “knight in shining armour” was an honorable RM. If he had been an AP while on his mission, even better.
I can remember when my sister came out to visit me while I was a student at BYU. She, a non-member, commented about how desperate everyone seem to be to get married.
Looking back, I can point out those couples who got married out of desperation and fear. There were many. They were afraid of not getting married or missing the opportunity if they didnt now. We are talking 17-25 year olds.
The pressure at BYU to get married and FAST was extreme at the time (the 80’s). I dont know if that is still true.
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pismopal
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As the early mormons used to say…" bring them all and bringum’ young."
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paulp1002
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It’s still very true. My wife told me that it was the norm for Mormons to get married and have children at a young age. Especially the returning missionaries.
Her younger sister was having a very hard time with the fact that she was almost 25 and not married. She was struggling so badly that she was making bad decisions with her relationships. I don’t know if she was doing what she was doing so she can get him to marry her. She finally realized it was wrong and ended it with him. Now she is 26 and she found the “perfect” LDS boyfriend, they were sealed within a couple months and pregnant a couple months after that.
It’s almost like 25-26 is the end of the road. LOL my ex wife is 29 and has been married twice, both husbands Catholic. You would think that should tell her something
Instead she will keep trying until she finds the right Mormon.
Her younger sister was having a very hard time with the fact that she was almost 25 and not married. She was struggling so badly that she was making bad decisions with her relationships. I don’t know if she was doing what she was doing so she can get him to marry her. She finally realized it was wrong and ended it with him. Now she is 26 and she found the “perfect” LDS boyfriend, they were sealed within a couple months and pregnant a couple months after that.
It’s almost like 25-26 is the end of the road. LOL my ex wife is 29 and has been married twice, both husbands Catholic. You would think that should tell her something
Instead she will keep trying until she finds the right Mormon.
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PaulDupre
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It is still true. If a Mormon woman graduates BYU without her MRS degree, she is considered a failure.
Here is a funny video (made by Mormons) poking fun at this very phenomenon.
Paul (Formerly LDS, now happily Catholic)
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valient_Lucy
Guest
That’s probably true. 15 year old girls are often fixated on marriage, and no religion reveres marriage more than Mormons. So there is a natural appeal.
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