Mormon missionaries vandalize and desecrate Catholic Shrine

[ibkc]

If you like Catholicism and want to “take the sacrament” in a more traditional Christian church, you can try the Episcopalians. They let other Christians and Mormons take the eucharist,

I am not so sure about that. When I was Episcopalian, it was deeply frowned upon for Mormons and other non-Christians to take communion. My church also preferred that only confirmed Episcopalians receive although they didn’t explicitly forbid other Christians from it. In other words, they took the Eucharist almost as seriously as Catholics do. That’s been a long time, though, and the ECUSA has changed a lot. Maybe they’ve discarded these beliefs and requirements along with everything else they’ve discarded.

 

[majick275]

the anglicans (including Episcopalians) seem to have a broad range of churches from superliberal with openly gay and female clergy to very traditional “catholic but for the pope” parishes. I have seen some (total parish, priest and congregation) convert to catholicism and others break with anglican groups to veer to the left.

 

[RC_Matt]

I don’t have the same hatred as some of the ‘catholics’ on this forum toward mormonism. That doesn’t make me any less a catholic. Sorry to disappoint but I do believe that I follow christ when he claimed: love your neighbor.

As one nun said to me yesterday: The Gospel is about love. I agree with her. Seek love and understanding and the christian door opens wide.

Dude, your answer perfectly reflects the stuff they teach in the MTC; it had absolutely nothing to do with my remark. You know, that “don’t answer the question they ask, answer the question they should have asked” deal. Kinda like the way you defend those missionary kids by alluding to Catholics and Irish being drunkards. HUH??? I said nothing about hating Mormons, which I certainly do not, nor did I say anything about not loving your neighbor. I simply commented that it is highly inappropriate for YOU to be acting as a Lector at a Catholic Mass. Furthermore, you should not even be taking Communion in the Catholic Church because you are NOT in communion with the Catholic Church. It’s perfectly cool if you want to attend Mass, but I am sure that the Parish Priest and your Mormon sp/bishop/ward would all agree that your current behavior is scandalous to both communities. I’m sure that’s not what you want to hear, but that’s just the way it is and it ain’t gonna change.

I’m giving you the benefit of the doubt here and assuming that you are telling the truth about your activities and that you are either super arrogant or super naïve, and I would tend towards the latter. I’m sure you’re a decent person and if your testimony of the BoM and Joseph Smith best helps you to live in accordance with Christ’s teachings, then that’s good thing and you should drop the pretense and go with it. There’s absolutely nothing wrong with that. However, when you come here encouraging Catholics to meet with Mormon missionaries and that kind of stuff, or when you defend Mormon misbehavior by alluding to stereotypically hypothetical behavior of specific religious and ethnic groups, you can hardly expect to go unchallenged.

I do, however, agree with you that this “misbehaving missionaries” topic has been sufficiently beaten to death and it’s time to move on.

 

[Elric]

Hardly, but some of the catholics on this thread have been playing the ‘holier than thou’ game. I seek forgiveness and not hatred but the hatred by the former mormons of the mormon church is quite one sided and ridiculous. I see no foregiveness in their posts at all and I must say that such an attitude is not representative of the catholic church. Three young men commited a gross act. End of story. But the former mormons now ‘catholics’ seek to make it a big issue. Sorry that game doesn’t play.

They committed more than just “a gross act”.

There were the things they did that they took photos of.

They didnt come foward and confess when asked (that there is lying/deciept/covering up).

And they had to be caught out 1 or 2 years after the incidents occured (I cant remember how long it was), because they were sharing their “joke” on-line (oh yeah, they sound real remorsful).

As I said: they are not sorry for what they did, they are only sorry that they were caught. There is a huge difference.

It is a big issue, because they should NOT have done what they did (and tried to cover it up ect.) and because they knew exactly what they were doing.

This “anti-mormon” rubbish that you keep spouting and the formor mormon “hate” is a direct result of how the LDS church is handling this issue, by twisting things to make the LDS church look like the victims and carrying on with the whole persicution thing.

That is most certainly not the right way to handle this situation.

 

[RC_Matt]

, it is not a crime to offer a fake human sacrifice on a catholic alter.

LOL, ya can’t make this stuff up….

Maybe it’s not against the law to offer a fake human sacrifice on a Catholic alter (whatever that is); it is, however, a crime in the State of Colorado to offer a fake human sacrifice on a Catholic ALTAR.

 

[Dauphin]

LOL, ya can’t make this stuff up….

Maybe it’s not against the law to offer a fake human sacrifice on a Catholic alter (whatever that is); it is, however, a crime in the State of Colorado to offer a fake human sacrifice on a Catholic ALTAR.

More importantly, it’s a direct mockery of the sacrifice of Our Lord. It’s a satanic, sacrilegeous act, and so is an offense against Divine law…

 

[xulu]

They committed more than just “a gross act”.

There were the things they did that they took photos of.

They didn’t come forward and confess when asked (that there is lying/deceit/covering up).

And they had to be caught out 1 or 2 years after the incidents occurred (I cant remember how long it was), because they were sharing their “joke” on-line (oh yeah, they sound real remorsful).

As I said: they are not sorry for what they did, they are only sorry that they were caught. There is a huge difference.

I agree.- the sorrow expressed is for getting caught.

More importantly, it’s a direct mockery of the sacrifice of Our Lord. It’s a satanic, sacrilegious act, and so is an offense against Divine law…

This thing has me so upset that I have wondered if I attended a local Catholic service if it would be a good thing.

 

[RebeccaJ]

I agree.- the sorrow expressed is for getting caught.

This thing has me so upset that I have wondered if I attended a local Catholic service if it would be a good thing.

xulu, you are always welcome to Mass. Everyone should be there.

 

[zerinus]

More importantly, it’s a direct mockery of the sacrifice of Our Lord.

It may be a mockery of the Catholic Mass; but it is not a mockery of the sacrifice of Jesus. Jesus was not sacrificed on an altar. He was crucified or hung on a tree.

It’s a satanic, sacrilegeous act, and so is an offense . . .

Without intending to offend our Catholic friends, I would say it is the Mass that is a “sacrilegious act”. The Catholic Mass is a literal sacrifice of Jesus Christ. The priest literally sacrifices Jesus Christ on the altar, and thus magically transforms the bread and wine into the flesh and blood of Jesus Christ. That is what I consider a sacrilegious act. Jesus suffered once, and died once. He need not be sacrificed nor die again (Hebrews 9:24-28). But that is what the Catholic priest does during Mass. I would say that is a grossly sacrilegious act.

I have discussed this with Catholics before; and they say that the Mass is not a sacrifice! Well, according to the Catechism it is:

Part 2, Section 2, Chapter 1, Article 3, SubSection 5, Heading 2

1367 The sacrifice of Christ and the sacrifice of the Eucharist are one single sacrifice: “The victim is one and the same: the same now offers through the ministry of priests, who then offered himself on the cross; only the manner of offering is different.” “And since in this divine sacrifice which is celebrated in the Mass, the same Christ who offered himself once in a bloody manner on the altar of the cross is contained and offered in an unbloody manner. . . this sacrifice is truly propitiatory.”

Part 2, Section 2, Chapter 1, Article 3, SubSection 6

1382 The Mass is at the same time, and inseparably, the sacrificial memorial in which the sacrifice of the cross is perpetuated and the sacred banquet of communion with the Lord’s body and blood.

Part 2, Section 2, Chapter 1, Article 3, SubSection 6, Heading 1

1388 . . . As the Second Vatican Council says: “That more perfect form of participation in the Mass whereby the faithful, after the priest’s communion, receive the Lord’s Body from the same sacrifice, is warmly recommended.”

Part 2, Section 2, Chapter 3, Article 7, SubSection 5, Heading 2

1651 . . . They should be encouraged to listen to the Word of God, to attend the Sacrifice of the Mass, to persevere in prayer, . . .

. . . against Divine law…

Which Divine law? I think the sacrifice of the Mass is against Divine law.

zerinus

 

[ibkc]

Without intending to offend our Catholic friends, I would say it is the Mass that is a “sacrilegious act”. The Catholic Mass is a literal sacrifice of Jesus Christ. The priest literally sacrifices Jesus Christ on the altar, and thus magically transforms the bread and wine into the flesh and blood of Jesus Christ. That is what I consider a sacrilegious act. Jesus suffered once, and died once. He need not be sacrificed nor die again (Hebrews 9:24-28). But that is what the Catholic priest does during Mass. I would say that is a grossly sacrilegious act.

I have discussed this with Catholics before; and they say that the Mass is not a sacrifice! Well, according to the Catechism it is:
Part 2, Section 2, Chapter 1, Article 3, SubSection 5, Heading 2

1367 The sacrifice of Christ and the sacrifice of the Eucharist are one single sacrifice: “The victim is one and the same: the same now offers through the ministry of priests, who then offered himself on the cross; only the manner of offering is different.”

I bolded, made red and supersized the one very important point that you overlooked, zerinus. Hope this helps you to understand that Jesus is not re-sacrificed with every mass.

 

[majick275]

I am interested in seeing what whyme has to say about zerinus opinion that the holy mass is a grossly sacrilegious act that is against divine law.

We also still seem to be waiting for the other two missionaries to apologize. the one who was still on his mission was easily directed by his leaders but what of the two who were home? especially what about the one who posted the photos to show everybody what he did? obviously he thought it something to brag about in doing so. will we ever see him apologize? will we see mormons demand he apologize?

no torches or pitchforks here, no call for vengeance…but what about a sincere apology? is that really unreasonable?

 

[twopekinguys]

I am interested in seeing what whyme has to say about zerinus opinion that the holy mass is a grossly sacrilegious act that is against divine law.

We also still seem to be waiting for the other two missionaries to apologize. the one who was still on his mission was easily directed by his leaders but what of the two who were home? especially what about the one who posted the photos to show everybody what he did? obviously he thought it something to brag about in doing so. will we ever see him apologize? will we see mormons demand he apologize?

no torches or pitchforks here, no call for vengeance…but what about a sincere apology? is that really unreasonable?

I agree.

I am also waiting for why me’s response to the questions posed about being a lector vs reader, and what reading he did.

Unfortunately, I have to go with my earlier statement(s) that he is just here trying to stir things up.

I guess it’s time to start praying harder.

 

[LaMar]

I am interested in seeing what whyme has to say about zerinus opinion that the holy mass is a grossly sacrilegious act that is against divine law.

Don’t have a source handy, but it’s a common theme in Mormon theology that the Eucharist “crucifies Christ afresh” or some such stuff. I know Brigham Young used to harp on that, but I don’t know whether he was the originator of it.

 

[ibkc]

Don’t have a source handy, but it’s a common theme in Mormon theology that the Eucharist “crucifies Christ afresh” or some such stuff. I know Brigham Young used to harp on that, but I don’t know whether he was the originator of it.

We know that. What we are interested in is why me’s continued support of acceptance of such ideas even though he claims he is Catholic.

 

[LaMar]

I agree.

I am also waiting for why me’s response to the questions posed about being a lector vs reader, and what reading he did.

Unfortunately, I have to go with my earlier statement(s) that he is just here trying to stir things up.

I guess it’s time to start praying harder.

Is whyme male or female?

I keep hearing him/her talk about nuns…maybe s/he’s confused about more than just religion.

 

[PaulDupre]

Without intending to offend our Catholic friends, I would say it is the Mass that is a “sacrilegious act”. The Catholic Mass is a literal sacrifice of Jesus Christ. The priest literally sacrifices Jesus Christ on the altar, and thus magically transforms the bread and wine into the flesh and blood of Jesus Christ. That is what I consider a sacrilegious act. Jesus suffered once, and died once. He need not be sacrificed nor die again (Hebrews 9:24-28). But that is what the Catholic priest does during Mass. I would say that is a grossly sacrilegious act.

Wow, Z, I am astonished at your abysmal ignorance. The mass is a indeed a sacrifice; it is the same sacrifice performed once for all on Calvary.

The true God is not bound by space and time, and every occurrance is eternally present to Him. The sacrifice of Jesus on the cross is always present to God, and at the mass God allows it to become present to us as well. There is a temporal/spiritual convergence of 33 AD and the present day, and we are at the foot of the cross.

We do not re-sacrifice Jesus at every mass. We re-present and offer to the Father anew the one eternal sacrifice of Jesus.

You sound like a Jack Chick tract.

Paul

 

[zerinus]

[/INDENT]I bolded, made red and supersized the one very important point that you overlooked, zerinus. Hope this helps you to understand that Jesus is not re-sacrificed with every mass.

You highlighted one part and ignored the rest, which makes it clear that it is a sacrifice.

zerinus

 

[ibkc]

You highlighted one part and ignored the rest, which makes it clear that it is a sacrifice.

Yes dear - it is A sacrifice. ONE sacrifice. ONE sacrifice for all time. Not billions of sacrifices every time a Mass is said. Big, big difference.

 

[zerinus]

Yes dear - it is A sacrifice. ONE sacrifice. ONE sacrifice for all time. Not billions of sacrifices every time a Mass is said. Big, big difference.

According to the Catechism, the Mass is “billions of sacrifices every time a Mass is said”. I didn’t write the Catechism. I am only quoting from it.

zerinus

 

[ibkc]

According to the Catechism, the Mass is “billions of sacrifices every time a Mass is said”. I didn’t write the Catechism. I am only quoting from it.

Post that quote. With a link, please. It certainly isn’t in the portion of the Catechism you posted earlier this morning.

Post it, or admit that your understanding of the Eucharist is flat-out wrong.