Mormon missionaries vandalize and desecrate Catholic Shrine

[ibkc]

Maybe he went to a Spanish Mass and got confused.

It is highly unlikely that the readings were in Latin.

If I am not mistaken, the readings are in Latin at a Tridentine mass. I have a 1962 missal, and they are in Latin there. However, why me did not give the correct answer to the original question. He said he didn’t “think” there were readings at all. Not that he couldn’t give one because it was in Latin and because lay readers are not used at the Latin mass.

 

[twopekinguys]

No, I don’t think that there are reading at a tridentine mass. But the priest gave a good homily about the mass itself.

The Tridentine Mass is celebrated in the official language of the Roman Catholic Church: Latin (with the exception of the reading of the Epistle and Gospel in English after being read in Latin and the sermon).

Just do a simple google search for “Mass readings in Latin”

By the way, nuns know Latin, and would be able to do a reading. I bet you’re going to tell me that there weren’t any nuns at that Mass.

But then again, none of this has anything to do with the vandalism at the shrine.

I don’t want to come off as a “moderator wanna be”, but the there was a recent post by a moderator telling us to stay on subject or the thread would be closed.

 

[ibkc]

But then again, none of this has anything to do with the vandalism at the shrine.

I don’t want to come off as a “moderator wanna be”, but the there was a recent post by a moderator telling us to stay on subject or the thread would be closed.

Apologies. I simply could not resist.

 

[twopekinguys]

No apologies necessary.

 

[xulu]

It’s difficult to resist the tauntings of an antagonist. It reminds me of my older brother

 

[xulu]

If I could add something constructive to the conversation. When I went to the Missionary Training Center (MTC) in Provo,Utah we attended a class called “Ambassadorship.”
I don’t know how long the class has been in place, or if it still is in place, but the purpose of it was to impress the idea on us the need to be respectful of those customs in the areas we go to. For me, I went to a Spanish language mission, so Catholicism is quite prevalent among those who speak it, and any who were going to an Asian country, they would learn their customs- like learning how to eat with chopsticks, their prevalent religion etc.
Those who went to English speaking missions attended these classes also.
They did speak of a 1972 incident where two missionaries straddled the shoulders of a Buddha statue in Thailand and took photos-( doesn’t this sound familiar.)
These guys ended up in jail for 6 months.
This was 36 years ago, the consequences still reverberate, now the epicenter is in Colorado.

 

[twopekinguys]

I remember reading an article about that.

Not that I am excusing the behavior of these guys, but they are at an age where their parents are trying to get them to stay in church, they want to spread their wings.

I have read on other boards where alot of the missionaries don’t really want to go, but do it under pressure from family and community. If they walk into their missionary training with an attitude of “I don’t want to do this.”, It should be examined how effective they will be while on their mission. I also think if they don’t feel “called” to be on a mission, they shouldn’t be ostrisized or shunned for it either.

I guess the long and the short of it is. If they don’t want to go, don’t force them, and it may cut down on acts like these.

 

[Memaw]

I remember reading an article about that.

Not that I am excusing the behavior of these guys, but they are at an age where their parents are trying to get them to stay in church, they want to spread their wings.

I have read on other boards where alot of the missionaries don’t really want to go, but do it under pressure from family and community. If they walk into their missionary training with an attitude of “I don’t want to do this.”, It should be examined how effective they will be while on their mission. I also think if they don’t feel “called” to be on a mission, they shouldn’t be ostrisized or shunned for it either.

I guess the long and the short of it is. If they don’t want to go, don’t force them, and it may cut down on acts like these.

A couple years ago, my sister and I were having meetings in my sis’s home with 2 very polite and well dressed, mannerly young LDS men. They were very well trained and knew their book well. We spent several weeks of discussions about the differences between Mormanism and Catholicism. We watched several of their videos and I told them things about their beliefs that they were surprised I knew and even some things they didn’t know. (I had a friend that used to be a Morman and I learned a lot from him.) Anyway, all this was very interesting till they started making what I called unchristian remarks about the Christian Bible pretaining to Jesus. (They have a different idea of Jesus than we do). They constantly put Joseph Smith way up ahead of Jesus. Finally I said, "Why do you constantly put Joseph Smith, a mere man, who is known to have a mental problem, and what he said, ahead of Jesus? " And they came unglued. They became rude, insulting and finally left and never came back!!!

 

[PaulDupre]

Let me give you an example that happened to me recently. I was on a bus with two nuns. These sisters were not from the convent that I usually visit. We just came from a Trindentine Mass.

It’s odd, whyme, that you seem to run into more nuns in a day than the rest of us do in a year.

What do you, as a man, do when you “visit the convent”?

Paul

 

[Memaw]

It’s odd, whyme, that you seem to run into more nuns in a day than the rest of us do in a year.

What do you, as a man, do when you “visit the convent”?

Paul

No need to get so insulting, I know of several Convents we can visit anytime and some of them have Exposition of the Blessed Sacrament and I see men there too. I never saw a sign on the door that said “Women Only”

 

[J_C]

I have read on other boards where alot of the missionaries don’t really want to go, but do it under pressure from family and community. If they walk into their missionary training with an attitude of “I don’t want to do this.”, It should be examined how effective they will be while on their mission. I also think if they don’t feel “called” to be on a mission, they shouldn’t be ostrisized or shunned for it either.

some time bcak while browsing thru a former mormin blog i read some former mormins say they had gone on their mission back in the 60s because it got them a draft deferment. this surprised me since i
i had not known that they could get out of the army by going on a mission;

then i remembered reading an article about mitt romney whose romney name shows up going back a few generations as a prominent one in the LSD, and the fact that he did his mission in Paris in the late 60s, and also that he never did any military service.

i think it is unfortanate that his priminent name and the fact that he was son of the Michcigan governor, would lead some to think that influence was brought to bear. also the fact that he didn’t volumteer for srevice in a war he as a conservative must’ve supported, would likewise lead some to wrong conclusions. personally i am sure that these are only coincidences.

 

[majick275]

Let me give you an example that happened to me recently. I was on a bus with two nuns. These sisters were not from the convent that I usually visit. We just came from a Trindentine Mass. On the bus were two mormon missionaries. One knew me. He shouted out: Why me, how is it goin? I then excused myself from the sisters and went to talk to them. Well, these two young guys were not exactly busting with maturity. They spoke in a loud voice about some of my personal things that one missionary knew. I felt a little uncomfortable. The whole conversation with them was just a little strange. Be that as it may, the bus passengers certainly knew aspects of my life that I wished they didn’t. :=)

I said goodbye to them and told the sisters that these missionaries lacked maturity (They also observed it) but as one sister said: they are young. True enough. I have noticed that male missionaries from America can lack maturity. I don’t know why but it seems that this is the case to some degree. I can blame the American culture that puts young people into xboxes, playstations and whatever gadgets that may be popular. But maturity can be in short supply for the 19 to 23 age group.

Young people act immaturely and do stupid things. It makes no difference if they are mormon missionaries, catholic missionaries and just young people in school or work. Some do stupid things.

EXCEPT… the LDS church claims these men are called by divine revelation to be ordained ELDERS!!! the LDS church chooses to send them on these missions at this age and has them make temple covenants before sending them out. so that tells me that the LDs church believes they ARE mature enough. now even if we accept your theory, shouldn’t immature people who do stupid things apologize? where is your call for them to do so?

 

[majick275]

No, I don’t think that there are reading at a tridentine mass. But the priest gave a good homily about the mass itself.

you don’t think? uuuhhh if you attend the mass wouldn’t you know? BTW there ARE readings at the Tridentine mass.

 

[majick275]

It’s odd, whyme, that you seem to run into more nuns in a day than the rest of us do in a year.

What do you, as a man, do when you “visit the convent”?

Paul

I think whyme is throwing out catholic “isms” to gain “cath cred” obviously this has now been exposed. many catholics (and non-catholics) are proficient enough in latin to READ it. instituted lectors may be used at the TLM and even if readings are given by priest or deacon they wold obviously be readings and some are as has been pointed out also given in the local language. the homily in proper form will usually refer to the readings as well.

but i am still waiting for whyme to call for an apology from these missionaries.

 

[xulu]

I guess the long and the short of it is. If they don’t want to go, don’t force them, and it may cut down on acts like these.

That does happen- peer pressure to go on a mission, and I have wondered if this could have been in their past. (However, it is NO excuse for stupid behavior.)

 

[majick275]

you know whyme’s description of a tridentine mass sounds almost anglican. especially with the priest from england, the “singing mass” and everything else. maybe there is even more confusion than we thought. anyone else know much about anglican latin mass? (i know they have them)

 

[Memaw]

you don’t think? uuuhhh if you attend the mass wouldn’t you know? BTW there ARE readings at the Tridentine mass.

Cool it Bud, I grew up with the Tridentine Mass and I don’t remember if the readings are in English or not,. Actually I don’t remember anything but the Homily being in English. I have also been to a Latin Mass a few years go and I can’t even remember if the readings were in English then even. Maybe he didn’t go on a regular basis. Why the attitude.

 

[majick275]

a lector is a “calling” for a lay person that usually requires training and a blessing from the priest. the bishop of each diocese sets specific requirements. interested people volunteer and are accepted by the parish priest. usually there is a “sr lector” who trains and schedules lectors. what they do is at each mass they read the scriptures during the mass except the ones from the gospels. those must be read by a priest or deacon. sometimes the lectors will read the psalm at mass if it isn’t sung. they may participate in reading the prayers of the faithful at that mass and in some cases will give announcements before or after mass.

your PM is full

 

[NMJenny]

There was a small piece in my paper today that said the Bishop of the area had requested that any criminal charges against the young men be dropped in Christian forgiveness. Apparently some high ranking Mormon officials apologized to him personally, and assured him that the boys (they certainly don’t deserve the name “men”) would be dealt with by LDS officials.

IMHO that would seem to close the issue in a fashion consistent with Christian teachings…

 

[majick275]

Cool it Bud, I grew up with the Tridentine Mass and I don’t remember if the readings are in English or not,. Actually I don’t remember anything but the Homily being in English. I have also been to a Latin Mass a few years go and I can’t even remember if the readings were in English then even. Maybe he didn’t go on a regular basis. Why the attitude.

because he is claiming to go NOW. he is not quoting from childhood or years past but from the other day. he claims to spend great amounts of time at the convent helping the nuns and at the church with the nuns and priest. he claims to be giving the readings at mass and being very involved in the parish including going to multiple forms of latin mass. YET he is a convert to mormonism, married in the mormon temple and still attending mormon services and encouraging his daughters to do so as well. he consistently attacks the catholic faith and bears his testimony of the truth of the BoM and Joseph Smith. he evangelizes for the mormon religion on multiple boards. he claims to be an inactive mormon because he doesn’t believe in God. (yet he still believes in the BoM) you might want to read his posts before you decide he is being unfairly picked on. (he has a habit of asking friends on the LDS boards to come over here and teach us catholics how we ought to be mormons)