Mormon neighbors

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Lemuel said:
I was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt, not knowing what his background is. There’s a difference between a misunderstanding and a lie. I agree with you that Mormons don’t consider Jesus to be “just another prophet”. The words of “I Believe in Christ” come to mind. It was among my favorite hymns when I was a member.
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Fair enough, Lemuel. He may not have being lying so much as he really doesn’t understand.

I just get mad when people mis-represent Catholicism, and I used to get mad when people misrepresented Mormonism.

Many people do misrepresent Mormonism, but you are probably more right in that they misunderstand as opposed to done right lie about Mormons.

Same is true of those who do that to us Catholics no doubt
 
minux said:
Really, Our Savior is the cornerstone of Mormonism and that was always the case? You seriously contend that was true in the 1980s?
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I was a member for 57 years and “Jesus Christ” was always the cornerstone of the Mormon church. The problem was that they just didn’t know or understand who the Jesus of the Bible is/was. They still don’t. They have a lot of strange doctrines, no doubt, but that does not mean that their version of Jesus Christ is not the cornerstone of their religion.

You just have to separate the Christian Jesus from the non-Christian, Mormon Jesus. Then it makes sense.
 
AngelaMarie said:
ABSOLUTLY I seriously contend and witness to Mormons believing the Christ is the Savior of the world
I taught Sunday School, RS, sat thru years of general conferences, stake conference, sacrament meetings etc.
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If Mormons believe in salvation through Our Savior, then don’t all Mormons convert to Catholicism? If we are so similar, why did Joseph Smith start a religion? Most of this could be characterized as religion baiting and I applaud your tact.

If Mormons believe in Our Savior, how do you explain the connection to masonry, the lack of regard for the Holy Bible compared to D&C, meso-America, the group chanting, Kolob planet, idolatry of Nephi, etc.? Where is any of this in the Holy Bible? Where does it say in the Bible to sit tight, because Joseph Smith is coming? Where does Our Savior tell us that we do not enter the Master’s Kingdom, but we take over a planet and repopulate it? Where does Our Savior tells us that in 1,800 years or so, hidden Egyptian texts will expand the Gospel?

The point is, you can not believe in Our Savior (i.e., in the Catholic sense) and any of these other items that are foundational truths of Mormonism.
 
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I’m the same way. I think that everyone should be treated honestly and fairly. If I hear someone saying something dishonest about the Mormon church, I will call them on it. It doesn’t mean I agree with them. But you can’t argue in favor of Catholicism by lying about Mormonism. You lose all credibility when you do.
 
Exactly. It’s why Mormons turn a deaf ear to people who claim that they don’t see Christ as the Savior.

They do.
 
minux said:
If Mormons believe in Our Savior, how do you explain the connection to masonry, the lack of regard for the Holy Bible compared to D&C, meso-America, the group chanting, Kolob planet, idolatry of Nephi, etc.? Where is any of this in the Holy Bible? Where does it say in the Bible to sit tight, because Joseph Smith is coming? Where does Our Savior tell us that we do not enter the Master’s Kingdom, but we take over a planet and repopulate it? Where does Our Savior tells us that in 1,800 years or so, hidden Egyptian texts will expand the Gospel?
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How do you explain the intense study of both the Old and New Testament that I had when I was in seminary (a class for Mormon high school students). In the 4 year span, one year is dedicated to the Old, one the New, the other two, BoM and their church history. The religion classes I had at BYU in both the Old and New Testaments…etc

Same is true for their adult Sunday school. They have a 4 year tract. One fully devoted to the Old, one the New, and the other two like I said about seminary. How every prayer that Mormons say is said the the name of Jesus Christ. (Yes, they invoke His Holy Name every time they pray.)

When their sacrament is blessed in sacrament meeting, it’s in the memory of Christ and His sacrifice. They have pictures of Him their meeting houses, their temples, their homes. Goodness, their is a replica of Bertel Thorvaldsen’s Christus statue in the North Temple visitors center in SLC, and has been there since the '50’s (I remember when it was vandalized and broken)

I get it, Minux, you see Mormonism thru the eyes of someone who has never lived in and doesn’t really know it, so you misunderstand it, like Lemuel said.

I fully agree that their understanding of Christ, and His nature, is distorted. But they love Him, they worship Him, they believe in Him, they try to live according to His teachings (as they understand them, again with distortions)

But don’t even try to tell me that don’t view Him as Savior, Redeemer, etc. Because that simply is not true.

 
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AngelaMarie said:
I fully agree that their understanding of Christ, and His nature, is distorted. But they love Him, they worship Him, they believe in Him, they try to live according to His teachings (as they understand them, again with distortions)

But don’t even try to tell me that don’t view Him as Savior, Redeemer, etc. Because that simply is not true.
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That was precisely my original point to you: Mormons do not view Our Savior in the same vein per Catholicism. Dogmatically, we disagree on Our Savior. Mormons can not believe in all the other stuff I mentioned and hold to the Catholic concept of Our Savior. Dogmatically, Mormonism and Catholicism are not congruent.

Why mention Our Savior, but have dogmatic differences: http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/c...oc_20010605_battesimo_mormoni-ladaria_en.html

As a Mormon, you can not sit here and tell me, yes, I believe in the same Our Savior as you do as a Catholic, because you do not.
 
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AngelaMarie said:
Mormons did not treat Our Savior was the deserved reverence. Mormons viewed Our Savior , more or less, as just another Prophet.
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minux said:
The recent view of Mormonism on Our Savior occurred within the last ten years.
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minux said:
Really, Our Savior is the cornerstone of Mormonism and that was always the case? You seriously contend that was true in the 1980s?
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Minux,

Your above statements were what I was challenging you on. Christ, even in their distorted view, is the cornerstone of their religion. They don’t see Him as “just another prophet”

To say what you said, misrepresents how they see Him as the center of their faith. They do claim the BoM as the “keystone” of their religion, at least Ezra Taft Benson said that repeatedly, but Christ most certainly is their cornerstone.

That is why I pushed back on your comments. You were wrong.
 
minux said:
As a Mormon, you can not sit here and tell me, yes, I believe in the same Our Savior as you do as a Catholic, because you do not.
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Minux, go back a re-read what I said. I am not Mormon, I am a former Mormon as is Lemuel.

We understand where Mormons are coming from because we have lived it, preached it, etc, and then left it., and are now Catholic.
 
This is where you are jumping to conclusions, unfortunately. I stated that “Mormons view Our Savior as, more or less, another prophet.” I will stand by that statement, regardless of Mormon prayer references to Our Savior.

Let’s go to the basics. The Trinity, per Catholicism, the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, which are all the same substance. In Mormonism, they believe God is separate from the Son and they are separate from the Holy Ghost. Concur?

Let’s put abstract values to beings, OK? We will say, in Mormonism, man is 1 and God is 2, so Our Savior in Mormonism would be a 1.5, right? More than a man, but not God.

You all got wrapped up on the axle by misunderstanding what I meant. I apologize for being unclear, but you did the straw man by focusing on the irrelevant point of the conversation.
 
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minux said:
I stated that “Mormons view Our Savior as, more or less, another prophet.” I will stand by that statement, regardless of Mormon prayer references to Our Savior.
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You are free to stand by that statement of course. But you are wrong and I say that in all charity.

Not going to get into the Mormon vs Catholic dogmatic differences as that happens here in the non-Catholic forum ad nauseam all the time

I know the differences. I, figuratively speaking, can speak both “Catholic” speak and “Mormon” speak, fluently.

I will always point out to the Mormons when they are wrong about Catholicism or when they deny various things about Mormonism that I know to be true.

And I will always point out to Catholics when they misunderstand, and thus misrepresent Mormonism and try to twist it.

I do believe that it’s important to follow the commandment of “thou shalt not bear false witness”, and will point that out when I see that happening.
 
Concur/non-concur: in Mormonism, Our Savior is not God? If you concur, then you are, quite literally, arguing with yourself, because that is exactly what I meant. Again, you should ask for clarification instead of jumping to conclusions.
 
Like I said, I was responding to your posts, as you posted them. I can’t read anyone’s mind.
 
minux said:
Let’s put abstract values to beings, OK? We will say, in Mormonism, man is 1 and God is 2, so Our Savior in Mormonism would be a 1.5, right? More than a man, but not God.
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Totally incorrect.
 
Agreed. If one is using this kind of analogy to understand Mormons view of Christ, He, too, is a 2, like God the Father

Not a 1.5
 
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