Mormon Organizational Skills

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Mormon Spirituality Checklist

• Meetings on Sundays - 3 hours
• -]Family/-] prayer
• -]Family/-] Singles Ward “Family” Home Evening
• Gospel study of Book of Mormon, D&C and Pearl of Great Price
• Writing personal -]and family/-] journals
• Writing to missionaries
• Genealogy
• Missionary work “Every Member a Missionary” = if you’re not Mormon and a Mormon is talking to you, they want you to be one]
• Food Storage
• Visiting Teaching
• Preparing for “Primary” (children) Sunday School Lesson
• Monthly trips to the temple
• Wear CTR ring

I’m surprised you didn’t throw the ‘need to develop and share your personal LDS testimony’ amongst your list somewhere…. The Fast & Testimony meeting was my 1st meeting I attended with my wife which probably wasn’t the best thing for me to attend since that is DRAMATICALLY different from a Catholic Mass, but that’s another story. The majority of LDS testimonies I hear tend to focus on the blessings that they received from doing all those works. They seemed ‘works-centered’ and not necessarily Jesus centered. If I took out the obligatory ‘in the name of Jesus Christ’ that’s said at the end of each testimony, I felt the name of Joseph Smith came up more frequently than Jesus did from my experience. Of course, there was the occasional testimony that moved me because it was Christ-centered. IMO though, that was an exception and not necessarily the rule.

I use to complain about all those ‘LDS things’ that they do when I was married to my LDS wife. Now that I’m on my own with my girls, the amount of Catholic things that I do somewhat dwarfs all those LDS activities. I just make sure that it’s apparent that it’s Christ-centered and that the works are done because of my relationship with Jesus. I’ve always thanked my LDS wife for me being the Catholic that I am.

 

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LatterdayLady…

Are these gatherings exclusively for Mormons?

No they are not. I enjoyed going to those volleyball/basketball ward/LDS functions. All are welcomed just like all the activities that occur in a typical Catholic parish. All are welcomed.

 

[KathleenGee]

Thanks for clarifying…because years back I was told Mormons were not supposed to make friends with Gentiles.

I really like the Mormon people.

But you know, not the ideas and ways about Mormonism.

Catholicism, especially after Sunday Mass, does not render to alot of activities…we are focused on the Mass in adoration and reflection. I usually like going home pondering the Liturgy of the Word. We have alot of communal based activities. And we have ongoing Taize…where we sing and chant before the Eucharistic Lord.

Our ProLife group sponsors wonderful couples banquet, a Mother Daughter Banquet, Fall Luncheon…the best…and at the couples banquet, a table is set up for those who are widowers or are alone.

I would say the best is following the Liturgical Year…because we have events following it that are deep and spiritual and joyous that create community activities following them. The other is like in my parish, where the priest gives a homily and we respond, and build up community at the Mass.

I think the Mormons do the best with their teen programs…and it is like mentoring…which the Catholic Bishops proposed in their pastoral letter, ‘Renewing the Vision’…the problem is that people are just so busy they can’t make time…and I think making time is our first priority.

 

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Catholicism, especially after Sunday Mass, does not render to alot of activities…we are focused on the Mass in adoration and reflection. I usually like going home pondering the Liturgy of the Word. We have alot of communal based activities. And we have ongoing Taize…where we sing and chant before the Eucharistic Lord.
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The worshipping aspect of both faiths are definitely different. I agree that the Sunday experience for me after Mass is similar to yours. The only time I felt my LDS wife seem to experience the same thing was when she returned from the Temple which only happened about 6 times a year since we didn’t live that close to a Temple.

Just my observations.

 

[KathleenGee]

Yes…and this can be said for in relation to Protestant services as well.

When we have the physical, sacred presence of God Himself — Who led the Chosen People out of Egypt, became the Pillar of Fire for them, then parted the Red Sea, fed them manna from heaven, and then came to them through the Virgin Mary…who gave the Lord Jesus His flesh and blood, to become the Eucharist for us at the altar, united us with the Heavenly Father…our whole approach to sacred space, our attention, and the seriousness and solemnity must be practiced.

 

[blueadept]

Yes…and this can be said for in relation to Protestant services as well.
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The difference is that there are many similarites with Protestant services like Lutherans, Anglicans, etc, that are similiar to the Catholic Mass. There really isn’t that much similarity between the Catholic Mass and an LDS Sacrament meeting. The prayer that’s done in a LDS meeting is to be mindful of their baptismal promises as they partake. Catholics do that when we enter and exit our Church when we dip our finger in the water and make the sign of the cross.

It is just a different experience between the LDS sacrament meeting and a Catholic Mass IMHO.

 

[Tony888]

Yes…and this can be said for in relation to Protestant services as well.

When we have the physical, sacred presence of God Himself — Who led the Chosen People out of Egypt, became the Pillar of Fire for them, then parted the Red Sea, fed them manna from heaven, and then came to them through the Virgin Mary…who gave the Lord Jesus His flesh and blood, to become the Eucharist for us at the altar, united us with the Heavenly Father…our whole approach to sacred space, our attention, and the seriousness and solemnity must be practiced.

I think the Catholic church would kick some a** in the evangelizm department, if they added two hours of catechism and fellowship after each Sunday service. Without a firmer foundation in the fundamentals, I fear many Catholics don’t actually experience the ‘sacred presence’

 

[scipio337]

Most faithful LDS folks tend not to be NFL football fans due to keeping the Sabbath holy and Family Home Evenings on Monday unless you don’t mind watching taped games. It was an issue in my mixed-faith marriage. The interesting thing now that we’re civilly divorced is that I watch a lot of taped games since I’m too busy doing church stuff on Sundays and Mondays as a Catholic. Go figure.

Do LDS consider watching the NFL “work”? Even the obervant Orthodox Jews I know still watch their “football” on Friday during the World Cup, they just make sure not to violate any of the “building a fire” laws.

 

[Telstar]

Here was my issue as a Mormon. Okay, first, I spent most of my 20’s as a Single person, so all this “family” togetherness was not anywhere near a reality for me. Not only did it make me feel like no matter what I did, I was not a “true” Mormon, I also feared for my own salvation and had no chance of going to the Celestial Kingdom unless I had a man who would condescend to marry me. ***Sidenote: ***I found a very cute boy that loved me for who I was and not what underwear I wore less than two months after leaving the LDS church. At a bar.]

First of all, congratulations on listening to that ‘small inner voice’ that leads us all to a closer union with God.

One thing that made me curious about what LDS believed were some of the people that I’ve met. A couple of them were young LDS women in their late 20s. They were very sweet young ladies. I admired their dedication to their faith and their humble ‘innocence’. As I got to know them better, I learned that they seemed to have some serious issues with the fact that they were still ‘single’ at their age (like they were ‘old maids’). After doing some digging into what LDS believe, I realized why they were so hard on themselves. Even though they joked about it, they still seemed to be really worried about it. I couldn’t understand why anyone would be so obsessed about not being married.

Secondly, this is what my mental processes were:

Mormon Spirituality Checklist

• Meetings on Sundays - 3 hours This boggles my mind. I can just imagine what most Catholics would say if Mass was that long!
• -]Family/-] prayer
• -]Family/-] Singles Ward “Family” Home Evening
• Gospel study of Book of Mormon, D&C and Pearl of Great Price Why am I not surprised to see the that the Bible is not included in that list?
• Writing personal -]and family/-] journals
• Writing to missionaries
• Genealogy
• Missionary work “Every Member a Missionary” = if you’re not Mormon and a Mormon is talking to you, they want you to be one]
• Food Storage This is one subject that deserves its own thread!
• Visiting Teaching
• Preparing for “Primary” (children) Sunday School Lesson
• Monthly trips to the temple
• Wear CTR ring ??

Two words missing from this list: Jesus and Christ. And it gave me that mental checklist mentality in regards to spirituality. I even had it when I joined the Catholic church, feeling guilty if I didn’t do my daily Rosary and mass and prayers and bible study and and and and … that I wasn’t being a “good” Catholic, and led to frequent bouts of scrupulosity that still rear their ugly head.

For a church that supposed to be ‘centered on Jesus Christ’, I find it extremely disheartening to see that Mormons pay very little attention to Him, at all, except when they refer to ‘the atonement’ because they want to lay claim to all the benefits that they believe they’ll receive from it.

Then one day I heard a homily about mental prayer - simply spending time with God so that I could get to know God as He truly is. Now, I was already spending time as often as I could in front of the blessed sacrament, but learning a more Teresian method of meditation and mental prayer has totally changed my interior life.

This is something that people outside the Catholic Church have very little understanding of, and even many Catholics don’t fully understand. It’s what Jesus referred to when Martha was complaining that Mary wasn’t helping her, and He said that Mary had chosen “the best part” that no one could take away from her.

Now I try not to get too detached to any particular devotion or apostolate. My vocation in life, above all else, is to get to know God so that I could love God as He deserves to be loved. I also pray constantly for the grace not only to love God, but to be able to accept God’s love. These concepts were completely foreign to me as a Mormon. I know that whether my prayers are a Monet (or at least a senior art project at the Art Institute), or they are a crayon drawing on butcher paper, what God will see is not the artistry of the prayer or the action, but the love behind it.

That’s the most important part of any religious practice, that too many people never really think about. God is far more interested in our love for Him than anything else we could ever do in this life. He loves us for who we are and wants us to return that love. But, we should love Him for Who He is, and not just for what He can do for us.

I pray daily that those deceived by the lies of the leaders of the Mormon church will be touched with God’s grace to get a glimpse of His true love for them, and for the grace to see God as He truly is, not the deceit that has been given to them through the LDS scriptures and the official doctrines of the church. I pray that the veil of lies will be lifted and the truth of God and His church will be revealed to their souls. Please, if you love your brothers as you love yourselves, offer up your rosary today with the intention of the conversion of souls, especially those who have been lied to by the LDS church. St. Louis de Montfort says that when we pray in common it is like an army that is attacking, so let us unite ourselves together and with Christ who is within us all to pray for the salvation for these souls who so desperately need salvation and grace.


St. Teresa Benedicta and Father Augustin-Marie of the Blessed Sacrament [converts to Catholicism and Carmelites], pray for us.

Amen!

 

[KathleenGee]

Tony,

The American Catholic Church focus right now is reaching out to fallen away Catholics who were not properly catechized such as yourself.

And the particular training I was in was directed at those lay ministers who were not catechizing correctly. As I said, the priest, a former lawyer, told us to use that pencil and clarify CCC 460…we do not be come gods…but partake in sanctifying grace…the whole impetus not to become gods but to become servants of the Lord.

It is not too late to enter RCIA. Also, depending on where you live, a Dominican parish is especially astute in drawing deeper theological discussions and clarifications.

 

[blueadept]

Do LDS consider watching the NFL “work”? Even the obervant Orthodox Jews I know still watch their “football” on Friday during the World Cup, they just make sure not to violate any of the “building a fire” laws.

LDS do not consider it “work”, but the point is that they don’t consider it Christ-centered OR an approved Sunday activity either. My LDS wife was fine with me watching football, just not on Sundays since it didn’t portray a good example for our mixed-faith family.

I don’t miss those days.

 

[blueadept]

I think the Catholic church would kick some a** in the evangelizm department, if they added two hours of catechism and fellowship after each Sunday service. Without a firmer foundation in the fundamentals, I fear many Catholics don’t actually experience the ‘sacred presence’

I have to agree that many Catholics do not necessarily experience the ‘sacred presence.’

In regards to the catechism idea, Catholics use to go to daily Mass. Through that oral Tradition, Catholics would be catechised with the entire bible in a 3 year period. Obviously, that practice has suffered a lot since the 1950’s. Different bible study classes have popped up since Vatican II and role of the laity has definitely increased, but I will admit to a definite increase in fallen-away Catholics during the last 50 years as well.

 

[blueadept]

Tony,

The American Catholic Church focus right now is reaching out to fallen away Catholics who were not properly catechized such as yourself.

When I talked to my priest in regards to things he wanted me to address as the new President of our Legion of Mary Praesidium, the #1 one issue was the fallen-away Catholics of our community. The other high desire was to be able to bring the Mass to the shut-ins, and elderly in the community that’s in the senior care facilities. Good goals for sure

And the particular training I was in was directed at those lay ministers who were not catechizing correctly.

I’ve experienced that as well in our RCIA program; therefore, I’ve volunteered to teach some of the more critical classes that I know people have walked away with the incorrect Catholic understanding and I’m witnessing generations within families that have suffered from poor catechesis that one parent received. Oh my.

 

[KathleenGee]

Yes,…I was invited by my former archdiocese to enroll in their master catechist program, but actually dropped out for other reasons, upon my return from serving the missions overseas. I remember the culture shock…and the observation then that is held now…that Catholics walk out the door immediately after Mass to cover up and hide their faith.

Our culture is much more hostile now to Catholicism.

And yes, there were all sorts of lay people who did not have a solid understanding of their own faith who were overseeing faith formation…as a deacon said, 'oh, those directors of religious ed…and their scissors…implying how the methods changed…alot of art, activities.

I had a fourth grade group, and we did a project on cooperation that led to acting out a gospel for the parents that went pretty well. But to stay it built their faith up in the Lord, and to have a sense of destiny in the Lord, no.

In second grade, while attending Mass before school prior to Vatican II, I saw a family sitting in pews in front of me. Mind you, I was 8 years old then. I was already reading alot…and thinking. I saw in the pew on my left going to right, small children, then grade school children, to a teenager, to the mother, and then the elderly grandfather at the end of the pew…Observing the chronological age of the family going from left to right…it made me see that each day we live, we are coming closer to our end.

So where we going to end up?

I had the Baltimore Catechism and it kept me from falling into the abyss of the late 60’s to 70’s…so much loss of faith and innocence, fidelity and true love.

Grown with family of my own, I asked my parish priest what was the cause of all of this…and in response to the world we live in now, he said, ‘everything’. The entire world is being affected by a great loss of faith in God, and for this, we believe the Great Apostasy is now.

Cardinal Wuerl is the one heading evangelization. So bringing back fallen away Catholics is where we are starting. There is a program called, “Landings”, that is assisting in that return, as well as ETWN’s ‘Coming Home’ for people returning or converting into the Church, finally coming home as they say.

Subsequently, it is bringing back fallen away Catholics and for all of us to support our young people, considering the world they are entering…emphasis on faith, reason, history.

 

[Telstar]

Yes,…I was invited by my former archdiocese to enroll in their master catechist program, but actually dropped out for other reasons, upon my return from serving the missions overseas. I remember the culture shock…and the observation then that is held now…that Catholics walk out the door immediately after Mass to cover up and hide their faith.

Our culture is much more hostile now to Catholicism.

And yes, there were all sorts of lay people who did not have a solid understanding of their own faith who were overseeing faith formation…as a deacon said, 'oh, those directors of religious ed…and their scissors…implying how the methods changed…alot of art, activities.

I had a fourth grade group, and we did a project on cooperation that led to acting out a gospel for the parents that went pretty well. But to stay it built their faith up in the Lord, and to have a sense of destiny in the Lord, no.

In second grade, while attending Mass before school prior to Vatican II, I saw a family sitting in pews in front of me. Mind you, I was 8 years old then. I was already reading alot…and thinking. I saw in the pew on my left going to right, small children, then grade school children, to a teenager, to the mother, and then the elderly grandfather at the end of the pew…Observing the chronological age of the family going from left to right…it made me see that each day we live, we are coming closer to our end.

So where we going to end up?

I had the Baltimore Catechism and it kept me from falling into the abyss of the late 60’s to 70’s…so much loss of faith and innocence, fidelity and true love.

Grown with family of my own, I asked my parish priest what was the cause of all of this…and in response to the world we live in now, he said, ‘everything’. The entire world is being affected by a great loss of faith in God, and for this, we believe the Great Apostasy is now.

Cardinal Wuerl is the one heading evangelization. So bringing back fallen away Catholics is where we are starting. There is a program called, “Landings”, that is assisting in that return, as well as ETWN’s ‘Coming Home’ for people returning or converting into the Church, finally coming home as they say.

Subsequently, it is bringing back fallen away Catholics and for all of us to support our young people, considering the world they are entering…emphasis on faith, reason, history.

I’m from the same generation as you are, and I distinctly remember that during that time period, the Catechism was mostly taught by Nuns. They certainly knew the Faith much better than any lay-person did, and were from a teaching order, so there was less chance that any errors would be taught to kids back then. Unfortunately, post Vat II led to a tremendous loss of vocations, especially here in the US where the ‘free love’ movement did horrible things to the morality of that entire generation.

Many Bishops and Priests misunderstood the intentions of some of the changes that were a part of Vat II, so they allowed a lot of things that were never intended to happen to our churches (removing many statues and ripping out the Communion rails, moving the Tabernacle off to the side and turning the altar around, etc.). I was also very affected by a lot of that stuff, and ended up heading in the wrong direction as a result of what I saw going on at that time. Luckily, I had my husband’s family (I’m pretty sure his Mom is a saint, and we often referred to his oldest sister as “saint Celine”… LOL) to set me straight. They really helped to pull me back away from the abyss that I was heading into @ full throttle. I can clearly see the detrimental effects that all of those things has had on Catholics over the years. It’s very sad.

 

[KathleenGee]

Telstar,

Yes, we are of the same generation.

What put me off was the meanness of the foreign born nuns. I could not see purpose in that. Discipline yes, but not for the sake of it. We were always told to behave in public with our uniforms on for fear of giving people a bad impression. There were always those ready to call in with complaints…neighborhood, bus drivers, shop keepers…

I think the spirit of the world entered the Church…in Revelations…it is not the lying or murderous mouth of Satan…too evil to follow him in that part of the Great Dragon in Rev 12, but rather the tip of the tail…the spirit of the world, fitting in with people, having good PR, the tip of the tail dragging the stars…the consecrated souls down.

But the good news is again, as people note here, is our renewal. Listening to a priest on EWTN, the ante is now going up that we are going on the offensive…no more sitting back and letting people label.

Yes, the sins of the clergy have indeed scandalized the Church. But in spite of their own behaviors, they are ordained ministers of the Lord, they can and do bring us Christ, of course not with the same degree of grace as faithful ministers do.

Read St. Catherine’s Dialogues on ‘Holy Church’…her main attack was on ecclesiastics who were afraid to discipline…

Going full circle…our church organization needs to renew discipline and calling us to more holy days instead of constantly excusing us from this or that…and I hope some day the communion rail will return, but this time not creating a class between the clergy and the laity.

So all in all, the living organization of the Catholic Church is at essence mystical and living. So I try to just be friendly and live in the Lord.

 

[HonoraDominum]

Thanks for your story. Your words (largely) reflect my thinking and attitude. I’m glad you found happiness coming home to the Catholic church. I have to know though, did anything ever happen with that guy in the bar?

Actually, yes. He gave me his sweatshirt (it was cold), then asked me out on a date for the next weekend, and we’ve been married over 9 years.