Mormon-owned newspaper -- on theosis

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Published yesterday in the Deseret News, the major newspaper for Salt Lake City:

deseretnews.com/article/700168175/Joseph-Smiths-restoration-of-theosis-was-miracle-not-scandal.html?pg=2
"The Christian saint Justin Martyr (d. A.D. 163) taught that “All men are deemed worthy of becoming gods, and of having power to become sons of the Highest.”
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St. Irenaeus of Lyons (d. A.D. 202) declared that “We have not been made gods from the beginning, but at first merely men, then at length gods. … (Jesus Christ) became what we are, that He might bring us to be even what He is Himself.”
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Clement of Alexandria (d. A.D. 215) believed that in the “future life” we will be among “gods … those who have become perfect … and become pure in heart … They are called by the appellation of gods, being destined to sit on thrones with the other gods that have been first put in their places by the Savior.”
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Tertullian, the first great Latin Christian author (d. A.D. 225), wrote that, through divine grace, the saved “shall be even gods.”
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Origen of Alexandria (d. A.D. 251) believed in “the Father as the one true God,” but acknowledged “other beings besides the true God, who have become gods by having a share of God.”
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And the translator of the enormously influential Latin Vulgate Bible, St. Jerome (d. A.D. 419), insisted that “God made man for that purpose, that from men they may become gods. … They who cease to be mere men, abandon the ways of vice, and are become perfect, are gods and sons of the Most High.”
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Joseph Smith restored an authentically ancient Judeo-Christian doctrine. That’s not a scandal. It’s a miracle.
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We should really get together and write an editorial-type of reply.
 
I would be very interested in reading the reply. it seems they may have taken things out of context, or maybe things were not properly translated. Nonetheless, I would be very interested in reading a Catholic reply to this article.
 
RebeccaJ said:
Published yesterday in the Deseret News, the major newspaper for Salt Lake City:

deseretnews.com/article/700168175/Joseph-Smiths-restoration-of-theosis-was-miracle-not-scandal.html?pg=2

We should really get together and write an editorial-type of reply.
Click to expand...
I would start with context
Dialogue with Trypho Chapter 124:
But as my discourse is not intended to touch on this point, but to prove to you that the Holy Ghost reproaches men because they were made like God, free from suffering and death, provided that they kept His commandments, and were deemed deserving of the name of His sons, and yet they, becoming like Adam and Eve, work out death for themselves; let the interpretation of the Psalm be held just as you wish, yet thereby it is demonstrated that* all men are deemed worthy of becoming “gods,”* and of having power to become sons of the Highest; and shall be each by himself judged and condemned like Adam and Eve.
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On the Irenaeus quote it is from his work Against Heresies Chapter 38 paragraph 4

It would seem the context speaks for itself.
  1. Irrational, therefore, in every respect, are they who await not the time of increase, but ascribe to God the infirmity of their nature. Such persons know neither God nor themselves, being insatiable and ungrateful, unwilling to be at the outset what they have also been created—men subject to passions; but go beyond the law of the human race, and before that they become men, they wish to be even now like God their Creator, and they who are more destitute of reason than dumb animals [insist] that there is no distinction between the uncreated God and man, a creature of to-day. For these, [the dumb animals], bring no charge against God for not having made them men; but each one, just as he has been created, gives thanks that he has been created. For we cast blame upon Him, because we have not been made gods from the beginning, but at first merely men, then at length gods; although God has adopted this course out of His pure benevolence, that no one may impute to Him invidiousness or grudgingness. He declares, “I have said, Ye are gods; and ye are all sons of the Highest.” Ps. lxxxii. 6, 7. But since we could not sustain the power of divinity, He adds, “But ye shall die like men,” setting forth both truths—the kindness of His free gift, and our weakness, and also that we were possessed of power over ourselves. For after His great kindness He graciously conferred good [upon us], and made men like to Himself, [that is] in their own power; while at the same time by His prescience He knew the infirmity of human beings, and the consequences which would flow from it; but through [His] love and [His] power, He shall overcome the substance of created nature. That is, that man’s human nature should not prevent him from becoming a partaker of the divine. For it was necessary, at first, that nature should be exhibited; then, after that, that what was mortal should be conquered and swallowed up by immortality, and the corruptible by incorruptibility, and that man should be made after the image and likeness of God, having received the knowledge of good and evil.
 
For the context of this tidbit, Clement of Alexandria (d. A.D. 215) believed that in the “future life” we will be among “gods … those who have become perfect … and become pure in heart … They are called by the appellation of gods, being destined to sit on thrones with the other gods that have been first put in their places by the Savior.”

It comes from The Stromata Book 7 Chapter 10 and best read in the context of the entire book which can be found here.

newadvent.org/fathers/02107.htm
 
The translation is fine; that’s not the problem.

The problem is the interpretation.

In the Eastern Catholic and Eastern Orthodox tradition, Christians do become God – point blank – because Christians become one with God’s Energies. Becoming one with God’s Energies is becoming God by grace. It does not mean that the Christian becomes God by nature. That would be impossible. That would mean becoming one with God’s Essence, which only The Trinity possess.

Both God’s Energies and God’s Essence are equally God.
 
This doesn’t surprise me; expected it coming…A number of us have shared on the saints of the earliest times…in defending our historical tradition of not changing our teachings.

These fellows do not show sources or complete teachings…I copied this new article to be sent to Cardinal Levada at the Roman Curia, as well as my own diocese. We were taught here in the archdiocese to note an addendum to the CC 460 which they are now taking on to prove they were right all along…and now it is coming out a miracle…they are now only discovering Catholic historical texts, considering their improved education, and letting go of strange ideas.

I am sure with all the visitors coming to the Mormon topic threads, they have their comparative scholars taking notes. The Great Apostasy thread which is on about page 100+ or so has now had over 25,000 visits…some still…200 a day.

There was a Theosis who was on here…as a Catholic…I wrote something orthodox and he pull the rug out from me…couldn’t understand…then found out he eventually was on road to become a Mormon…I am sure people like him work to bolster Mormonism.

That is why it is important that I shared my story, and what this church teaches its people about us, and why it is wrong for them to pose as a geneology society to obtain records to be used for baptisms of the dead in their temples…

Once the temples are erected throughout the world, they are triumphant in their mind having baptized the universe.

Yes, there should be a protest done…but it primarily needs to be done through the clerical leadership of our church.

It is time the Catechism have its addendum to CC460, as well as face off with the Mormon Church with another form of disinformation and misrepresentation of our faith to its members.

It is a scandal on the part of Mormonism to take our beliefs completely out of context and turn them around to mean opposite of our beliefs.

I don’t think people should be defending this practice of institutional lying and theft of belief and practice.
 
St. Athanasius stood firm in the face of Arianism, removed from his episcopacy 4 times. He refuted the belief, similar to Mormonism, that Christ had a beginning and an end.

St. Irenaeus single handedly defeated gnosticism, which Mormonism also reflects…conjecturing any philosophy…

I am pretty intuitive…I don’t how many or anyone drew on my posts in past on the Great Apostasy and my sharings of St. Justin the Martyr who were ignored then. I always said the Mormons come on here to study our faith so they can turn around and build arguments against it…

Saw the theosis thing coming with CC460 this past year…and taken out of context…

Time to start addressing this issue publicly…the Mormon people are again the ones losing out on a full deck of the Truth.
 
RebeccaJ said:
Published yesterday in the Deseret News, the major newspaper for Salt Lake City:

deseretnews.com/article/700168175/Joseph-Smiths-restoration-of-theosis-was-miracle-not-scandal.html?pg=2

We should really get together and write an editorial-type of reply.
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Yes this is same newspaper (and author) I have referred to in regards the The Holy Trinity and the current LDS trend to try to pass themselves off as believing the same things as everyone else.
From the article on The Trinity
Fortunately, there are contemporary Christian theologians, both Catholic and Protestant, who are attending more carefully to the biblical roots of Trinitarian doctrine and pruning away the dead branches of outdated Greek metaphysics that have long damaged its health. Many of these identify themselves with what has come to be called the “social model of the Trinity” or, simply, “social Trinitarianism.” According to this model, the Father, Son and Holy Ghost are perfectly unified in love and purpose, wholly transparent and open to one another, inseparable but distinct centers of consciousness and personality.
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The full article can be found here.
It still makes me wonder why LDS apologists like Mr. Peterson and Tony888 work so hard to contort their theology to make is appear to fit Catholic theology, it seems if theirs could stand on it’s own there would be no need to “prove” they believe the same as us.
 
Yes, KathleenGee has made a good point elsewhere, that if LDS want to be Catholic, they should just become Catholic. Join with us as heirs of Christ, and know all that they are offered through Christ’s Church, is theirs. All they have to do is pray for God’s guidance, and they will be led to Him.
 
Well, as I continue to reflect on such matters…it is looking like…and seeing support by…the Orthodox posters…

Is Orthodoxy and Mormonism the same in theosis…? I don’t think so.

How would an Orthodox answer the Mormons that they are really having the same idea…?
 
KathleenGee said:
Well, as I continue to reflect on such matters…it is looking like…and seeing support by…the Orthodox posters…

Is Orthodoxy and Mormonism the same in theosis…? I don’t think so.

How would an Orthodox answer the Mormons that they are really having the same idea…?
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The Orthodox wiki addresses the Mormon claim.

orthodoxwiki.org/Theosis#Deification_in_Mormonism

The Mormon flaw is how they view deification, which doesn’t fit any Catholic belief or teaching, Orthodox or Catholic.

“The Mormons’ belief differs with the Orthodox belief in deification because the Latter-Day Saints believe that the core being of each individual, the “intelligence” which existed before becoming a spirit son or daughter, is uncreated or eternal. Orthodox deification always acknowledges a timeless Creator versus a finite creature who has been glorified by the grace of God. The Mormons are clear promoters of henotheism, and the Church Fathers have absolutely no commonality with their view.”
 
As Mormonism has rejected Christianity, then, it should use its own terms and stay with them.
 
They are never going to do that.

One thing that I see very often with converts from Mormonism (including myself) is the sense of deception. Layer after layer after layer of half-truths and lies, that have prevented us from coming to the truth in Christ’s Church. Many of us have come to the same conclusion, that this is not random, but the work of someone/something other than God.

Mormon use of ancient Christian writing is just more of the same. Another layer, another lie.
 
Lying, stealing…condemning good as bad…not good fruits…

We keep praying for the Mormon people to come to the light of Christ…
 
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