Mormon Prophets & Revelations

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LivingWaters7 said:
I don’t believe there’s ever been a case where a revelation was refused to be sustained. In the vast majority of cases involving a sustaining, whether callings, revelations, etc, there is a unanimous vote. I’ve had a few friends that grew up LDS that told me about cases where someone raised their hand to not sustain someone in their calling, and the bishop said that he would speak with that individual to hear their reasoning (I’m assuming that if it’s a serious matter that they’re aware of that the bishop isn’t, this could affect whether or not that person is actually set apart in the calling). But again, that is extremely rare.

And again, I think that it’s important to realize that Mormons are not voting to approve or reject a revelation. What they are doing is “sustaining” that revelation, essentially raising their hand to show their agreement with it (presumably because they’ve received confirmatory revelation on it from God, so the thinking goes). It would be amusing if a revelation was received to allow the practice of plural marriage again, and half raise their hands to not sustain it. 😛
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begs the question…when the “revelation” to stop practice of polygamy was brought forward…how many sustained it? How many of the “apostles” voted to sustain it? Especially since most, if not all, were practicing it…same with the Members…
 
All LDS members can’t be lumped together. I’d wager most raise their hands to say “aye”, because that is what you do. No thought or care as to what is being agreed to. This group can be of at least two minds, one that believes “the church” can do no wrong so what would there ever be to disagree with? And another smaller group that thinks it is all BS so who cares, raise your hand to the square. Done.
 
"I prophecy in the name of the Lord God of Israel, unless the United States redress the wrongs committed upon the Saints in the state of Missouri and punish the crimes committed by her officers that in a few years the government will be utterly overthrown and wasted, and there will not be so much as a potsherd left for their wickedness in permitting the murder of men, women and children, and the wholesale plunder and extermination of thousands of her citizens to go unpunished (History of the Church, Vol. 5, page 394).

Joseph Smith made this prophecy in May 6, 1843. However, the United States Government did not redress any of the wrongs committed against the Mormons in Missouri, and now over 150 years later, the U.S. Government still stands.

so…how did THIS prophesy work out for Mormons?
 
While discussing the petition to Congress, I prophesied, by virtue of the holy Priesthood vested in me, and in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, that, if Congress will not hear our petition and grant us protection, they shall be broken up as a government, and God shall damn them, and there shall be nothing left of them - not even a grease spot. (Millennial Star, Vol. 22, p. 455. See also History of the Church (HC), vol. 6, p. 116, though when this prediction was incorporated into the official history, Mormon Church leaders decided to leave out the “grease spot” part.)

The petition was not heard nor was protection granted (Deseret News, Vol. 1, p. 59). Yet, Congress was never broken up and continues to function to this day. It is interesting that the compilers of History of the Church, added an editorial note in an attempt to soften or explain this prophecy. They state that: “This prediction doubtless has reference to the party in power; to the ‘government’ considered as the administration;” (note, p. 116). According to the note in HC, this means the Democratic Party, which was in control at the time. However, the prediction is that “Congress shall be broken up as a government” and Congress is made up of representatives from both parties. The Saints were making an appeal to the General Government, not to the Democratic Party, a point made by a summary statement in the left margin beside this prophecy as it is recorded in HC.

Or this one?
 
or this one?

This prophecy is recorded in Doctrine & Covenants Section 111. The introduction to this prophecy, found at the beginning of Section 111 states:

Revelation given through Joseph Smith the Prophet, at Salem, Massachusetts, August 6, 1836. HC 2:465-466. At this time the leaders of the [LDS] Church were heavily in debt due to their labors in the ministry.
  1. I, the Lord your God, am not displeased with your coming this journey, notwithstanding your follies.
  2. I have much treasure in this city for you, for the benefit of Zion, and many people in this city, whom I will gather out in due time for the benefit of Zion, through your instrumentality.
  3. Therefore, it is expedient that you should form acquaintance with men in this city, as you shall be led, and as it shall be given you.
  4. And it shall come to pass in due time that I will give this city into your hands, that you shall have power over it, insomuch that they shall not discover your secret parts; and its wealth pertaining to gold and silver shall be yours.
  5. Concern not yourselves about your debts, for I will give you power to pay them.
No treasure was ever discovered, nor did Salem ever fell into the hands of the Mormons.
 
maybe this one?

This prophecy comes directly from Doctrine & Covenants Section 84, the introduction of which states:

Revelation given through Joseph Smith the Prophet, at Kirtland, Ohio, September 22 and 23, 1832. HC 1:286-295.
  1. A revelation of Jesus Christ unto his servant Joseph Smith, Jun., and six elders, as they united their hearts and lifted their voices on high.
  2. Yea, the word of the Lord concerning his church, established in the last days for the restoration of his people, as he has spoken by the mouth of his prophets, and for the gathering of his saints to stand upon Mount Zion, which shall be the city of New Jerusalem.
  3. Which city shall be built, beginning at the temple lot, which is appointed by the finger of the Lord, in the western boundaries of the State of Missouri, and dedicated by the hand of Joseph Smith, Jun., and others with whom the Lord was well pleased.
  4. Verily, this is the word of the Lord, that the city New Jerusalem shall be built by the gathering of the saints, beginning at this place, even the place of the temple, which temple shall be reared in this generation.
  5. For verily this generation shall not all pass away until an house shall be built unto the Lord, and a cloud shall rest upon it, which cloud shall be even the glory of the Lord, which shall fill the house.
The Mormons were forced to flee Missouri due to persecution and a temple was never built on the “temple lot” in the lifetime of Joseph Smith or within the generation of his contemporaries.
 
TexanKnight said:
maybe this one?

This prophecy comes directly from Doctrine & Covenants Section 84, the introduction of which states:

Revelation given through Joseph Smith the Prophet, at Kirtland, Ohio, September 22 and 23, 1832. HC 1:286-295.
  1. A revelation of Jesus Christ unto his servant Joseph Smith, Jun., and six elders, as they united their hearts and lifted their voices on high.
  2. Yea, the word of the Lord concerning his church, established in the last days for the restoration of his people, as he has spoken by the mouth of his prophets, and for the gathering of his saints to stand upon Mount Zion, which shall be the city of New Jerusalem.
  3. Which city shall be built, beginning at the temple lot, which is appointed by the finger of the Lord, in the western boundaries of the State of Missouri, and dedicated by the hand of Joseph Smith, Jun., and others with whom the Lord was well pleased.
  4. Verily, this is the word of the Lord, that the city New Jerusalem shall be built by the gathering of the saints, beginning at this place, even the place of the temple, which temple shall be reared in this generation.
  5. For verily this generation shall not all pass away until an house shall be built unto the Lord, and a cloud shall rest upon it, which cloud shall be even the glory of the Lord, which shall fill the house.
The Mormons were forced to flee Missouri due to persecution and a temple was never built on the “temple lot” in the lifetime of Joseph Smith or within the generation of his contemporaries.
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It was never built at all, unless you take into consideration the Temple built by the Community of Christ which I have actually seen when visiting Kansas City MO. But I don’t think it’s on “temple lot” which belongs to non LDS Mormons that can’t afford to build anything there.
 
Heck, even a broken clock is right twice a day. Js could not even manage that
 
TexanKnight said:
lol…what is great fun for me is to get Mormons to defend their prophets by denouncing other prophets.

What is not fun is that they never get it…
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They’ve been instructed to throw not only past prophets, but also their scriptures, under the bus off the current prophet. Of course Mr. Benson is now one of the dead prophets of little importance so what ever he said goes under the bus, like the words of so many of his predecessors.

I’d like to point out in light of all the mocking by LDS about papal infallibility that that the current prophet speaks authoritatively on any subject unlike the pope who’s infallibility is limited to faith and morals. Maybe LDS prophets should apply themselves to defining the LDS faith they seem rather loath to do so.
Ezra Taft Benson President of the Quorum of Twelve Apolstles:
First: The prophet is the only man who speaks for the Lord in everything.
Second:The living prophet is more vital to us than the standard works.
Third: The living prophet is more important to us than a dead prophet.
Fourth: The prophet will never lead the Church astray.
Fifth: The prophet is not required to have any particular earthly training or credentials to speak on any subject or act on any matter at any time.
Sixth: The prophet does not have to say “Thus saith the Lord” to give us scripture.
Seventh: The prophet tells us what we need to know, not always what we want to know.
Eighth: The prophet is not limited by men’s reasoning.
Ninth: The prophet can receive revelation on any matter—temporal or spiritual.
Tenth: The prophet may be involved in civic matters.
Eleventh: The two groups who have the greatest difficulty in following the prophet are the proud who are learned and the proud who are rich.
Twelfth: The prophet will not necessarily be popular with the world or the worldly.
Thirteenth: The prophet and his counselors make up the First Presidency—the highest quorum in the Church.
Fourteenth: The prophet and the presidency—the living prophet and the first presidency—follow them and be blessed; reject them and suffer.
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I find it humorous when the Mormons disappearance rate is proportionate to the posting facts rate…
 
TexanKnight said:
I find it humorous when the Mormons disappearance rate is proportionate to the posting facts rate…
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Yeah, I would love to hear a response to these failed prophecies, specifically I would like to how one could deny that these are, in fact, “prophesies” rather than opinion.
 
SteveVH said:
Yeah, I would love to hear a response to these failed prophecies, specifically I would like to how one could deny that these are, in fact, “prophesies” rather than opinion.
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Much like the JW’s with their failed prophecies.
 
TexanKnight said:
The list of failed lds “prophet” prophesies and teachings is huge…
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And these are the things they either don’t tell you about, or say “the lord realised that we weren’t spiritually ready for such revelations/ teachings at that/ this time…”
 
TexanKnight said:
I’ll be here all week!

BY said his sermons are doctrine. BY said in a sermon that Adam is God. So then Adam is God…except Pratt says Adam is NOT God…so it is NOT doctrine…but BY outranks Pratt…so it IS doctrine…but Pratt is later deemed to be wrong. So Adam, then MUST be God, except later Prophets said BY was wrong. So then His sermons are NOT doctrine. Then he must not have been a prophet…but no, he IS a prophet…so then his sermons MUST be doctrine…but Pratt says they are NOT doctrine…

But Pratt is wrong!..But BY is wrong…

so who was wrong first?

BY…

so then he was not a prophet?

Yes he was…

So then Pratt was wrong?

Yes…but for other reasons…

I need an aspirin
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This is quite entertaining 🍿 😃 :rotfl:
 
BY: Adam is God!

Pratt: No he is not

BY: But what I say is doctrine!

Pratt: No it is not

BY: But I am a prophet!

Pratt: Yes, you are

BY: Then Adam is God!

Pratt: No he is not.

BY: Be quiet! Later prophets have denounced you!

Pratt: They denounced you, too…

BY: Huh? I never saw THAT coming…

Pratt: Then I guess you were not a prophet after all…
 
TexanKnight said:
BY: Adam is God!

Pratt: No he is not

BY: But what I say is doctrine!

Pratt: No it is not

BY: But I am a prophet!

Pratt: Yes, you are

BY: Then Adam is God!

Pratt: No he is not.

BY: Be quiet! Later prophets have denounced you!

Pratt: They denounced you, too…

BY: Huh? I never saw THAT coming…

Pratt: Then I guess you were not a prophet after all…
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That sounds like it could belong in a musical. The Book of Mormon did so well, maybe Broadway needs a prequel dealing with the early LDS church?
 
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