Mormon Sacrament Question

[dianaiad]

Please, I’m a convert to Catholicism after being a mormon for over 22 yrs., Been in the Temple, through all of the nutty rituals that I could spout off on here if I had the time or cared enough. (Believe you me, when I did share this info. w/ my RCIA class years ago, they were ready to fall off of their chairs). That being said, you must be interested in Catholicism, or you would not be on a Catholic site. Come on over…

I see.

I wonder how you would feel if a former Catholic, now LDS convert, were to entertain everybody in a Gospel Essentials class with all the funny stories revolving around Catholics, the litergical clothing, the candles, the Virgin Mary in the grilled cheese sandwiches and the barn doors. If someone took all those things that you now hold as special symbols of your faith and thought they were fall on the floor funny; mocking and deriding them, would you be putting winky faces in your post?

Well, be of good cheer, because no Catholic convert to Mormonism in a Gospel Essentials class would be allowed to do that. WE are taught that the faith and beliefs of others should be treated with respect–as you will remember if you are honest with yourself and with others.

Those Mormons who fall, and fail to treat others with the respect they deserve, are not praised. They are not given pats upon the back, and they don’t brag about it. It is something to be ashamed of.

 

[dianaiad]

What baffles me is why you are even on this website if you think that “OUR” rituals are nutty… I do think the temple rituals that I’ve been through are completely NUTTY. However, notice I’m not on a mormon website???:

No, dear, you are not. You are on a Catholic website, in a forum specifically designed to discuss (read, attack and make fun of, for the most part) non-Catholic religions. You won’t FIND such a sub-forum on any Mormon website.

 

[Bataar]

However, we do not interpret these expressions literally, but consider them to be figurative expressions referring to the atoning sacrifice of Jesus Christ. The sacrament is a memorial of the suffering of Christ. We do it in remembrance of Him, as also taught in the bible:

Luke 22:

19 And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me.

Luke 22:

24 And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.

1 Corinthians 11:

25 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.

I could ask protestants the same question, but what exactly do you DO in remembrance of Him?

Jesus changed the bread and wine into His body and blood and said to, “Do this in remembrance of me.” If you’re not doing the same thing Jesus did, than you’re not following His instruction. What is the “this” that you’re doing if not doing what Jesus commanded?

 

[Chris-WA]

After all, what if there is no wine? Can Catholics have communion if someone breaks the wine bottle?

Actually the answer is yes. The body and blood of Christ are fully present in either the bread or the wine. Catholics get the full deal whether taking the bread, the wine, or both.

 

[Chris-WA]

However, we do not interpret these expressions literally, but consider them to be figurative expressions referring to the atoning sacrifice of Jesus Christ. The sacrament is a memorial of the suffering of Christ. We do it in remembrance of Him, as also taught in the bible:
Luke 22:

19 And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me.

Luke 22:

24 And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.

1 Corinthians 11:

25 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.

The Catholic Church also upholds that we are to celebrate the Eucharist in remembrance of Jesus–that very quote is in the Eucharistic prayer the priest prays over the bread and wine. The difference obviously is the interpretation of what this all really means. John Chapter 6 shows us that Christ was being much more than merely figurative.

First Jesus tells the Jews that He is the living bread (could be figurative, right?)
51 I am the living bread that came down from heaven; whoever eats this bread will live forever; and the bread that I will give is my flesh for the life of the world.
The Jews didn’t take it that way though. They thought Jesus was being literal:
52 The Jews quarreled among themselves, saying, “How can this man give us (his) flesh to eat?”
Again Jesus declares (still being figurative? Maybe.)
53 Jesus said to them, “Amen, amen, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you.”
Now for a third time Jesus says (Could be figurative, but He really seems to be stressing it):
54 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him on the last day.
But now he takes it up another notch (not sounding too figurative anymore):
55 For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink.

*56 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me and I in him. *

57 Just as the living Father sent me and I have life because of the Father, so also the one who feeds on me will have life because of me.

58 This is the bread that came down from heaven. Unlike your ancestors who ate and still died, whoever eats this bread will live forever.

59 These things he said while teaching in the synagogue in Capernaum.
And here again we see that those who heard Him took Jesus quite literally:
60 Then many of his disciples who were listening said, "This saying is hard; who can accept it?"

61 Since Jesus knew that his disciples were murmuring about this, he said to them, "Does this shock you?"

62 What if you were to see the Son of Man ascending to where he was before?

63 It is the spirit that gives life, while the flesh is of no avail. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and life.

*64 But there are some of you who do not believe. Jesus knew from the beginning the ones who would not believe and the one who would betray him. *

*65 *And he said, “For this reason I have told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by my Father.”
And in the end many had a difficult time accepting that Jesus could give His body and blood as true food and true drink. They left Him over this teaching:
66 As a result of this, many (of) his disciples returned to their former way of life and no longer accompanied him.
So here is the kicker–what did Jesus do then? The people had just left Him because they could not accept the teaching that Jesus could offer His body and blood as true food and true drink. If He was being merely figurative here, any responsible teacher (which Jesus most certainly was) would call them back, saying “Wait a minute, everybody. I wasn’t being literal. I was being figurative. I don’t really mean that you have to eat my body and drink my blood. It’s just an expression.”

No, Jesus did not correct their interpretation of what He said, because they interpreted Him correctly, and they couldn’t accept it. They left, and He didn’t stop them.

 

[kimmielittle]

But you do know that many noncatholics can say the same about the catholic rituals…that they are nutty. And I am sure that some noncatholics would have a belly laugh at some catholic rituals also. For example saying the rosary. Some would consider that to be nutty. Or saying set prayers on prayer cards…some would consider that to be nutty. And then all the novenas…some would claim that to be nutty.

I think that we should be careful in calling another faith’s rituals nutty. The word can come back to haunt us.

 

[TheosisM]

No, dear, you are not. You are on a Catholic website, in a forum specifically designed to discuss (read, attack and make fun of, for the most part) non-Catholic religions. You won’t FIND such a sub-forum on any Mormon website.

lds.net/forums/christian-beliefs-board/

Not as active, but it’s there.

 

[PaulDupre]

I see.

I wonder how you would feel if a former Catholic, now LDS convert, were to entertain everybody in a Gospel Essentials class with all the funny stories revolving around Catholics, the litergical clothing, the candles, the Virgin Mary in the grilled cheese sandwiches and the barn doors. If someone took all those things that you now hold as special symbols of your faith and thought they were fall on the floor funny; mocking and deriding them, would you be putting winky faces in your post?

Well, be of good cheer, because no Catholic convert to Mormonism in a Gospel Essentials class would be allowed to do that. WE are taught that the faith and beliefs of others should be treated with respect–as you will remember if you are honest with yourself and with others.

Those Mormons who fall, and fail to treat others with the respect they deserve, are not praised. They are not given pats upon the back, and they don’t brag about it. It is something to be ashamed of.

Then things must have changed 180 degrees since I was LDS, because I heard Catholic bashing in LDS Sunday school classes and from the LDS pulpit during the entire 11 years I was LDS. They told us that Catholics worship statues and sell forgiveness for sins. They told us that Catholics deny the resurrection (I still read that one from Mormons on this forum from time to time) and that Catholics believe that God does not hear prayers. And the members ate it up with lots of tongue-clucking and laughter.

The lies told about Catholics by Mormon leaders was the first thing that started me doubting the inspired origins of the LDS church.

 

[PaulDupre]

I see.

I wonder how you would feel if a former Catholic, now LDS convert, were to entertain everybody in a Gospel Essentials class with all the funny stories revolving around Catholics, the litergical clothing, the candles, the Virgin Mary in the grilled cheese sandwiches and the barn doors.

We hear that one about the grilled cheese sandwiches from LDS why me all the time.

 

[RebeccaJ]

No, dear, you are not. You are on a Catholic website, in a forum specifically designed to discuss (read, attack and make fun of, for the most part) non-Catholic religions. You won’t FIND such a sub-forum on any Mormon website.

lds.org does a good job of all those things.

 

[heathernoel]

Perhaps we can’t find actively-bashing-Catholics LDS sites because most are held secret…umm…sacred (that’s the code word, right?).

In any event, you ARE on a Catholic site…if we agreed with LDS “beliefs” we would be LDS, would we not?

In any event, as an active RCIA member, let me tell you that we have been led by example…we do not mock other beliefs. We pray for conversion instead! Much more effective! (and, I’ve been in RCIA for 4 years now, so I’ve heard these conversations a lot).

 

[vickimonica]

I do not wish for a “Pat upon the back” from ANY Mormon. FYI, I do not feel that God was ever part of the lds temple rites, therefore, the "covenant wasn’t valid in the first place… You, Diane must be interested in Catholicism, or you wouldn’t be on a CATHOLIC Website. Why don’t you “Come on over”??? Also, as for speaking of what goes on in the temple, all that one has to do is Google “mormon temple ceremony” and you cant watch one for entertainment!!

 

[vickimonica]

No, dear, you are not. You are on a Catholic website, in a forum specifically designed to discuss (read, attack and make fun of, for the most part) non-Catholic religions. You won’t FIND such a sub-forum on any Mormon website.

Then why don’t you go on a Mormon Website?!?!?

 

[vickimonica]

Then things must have changed 180 degrees since I was LDS, because I heard Catholic bashing in LDS Sunday school classes and from the LDS pulpit during the entire 11 years I was LDS. They told us that Catholics worship statues and sell forgiveness for sins. They told us that Catholics deny the resurrection (I still read that one from Mormons on this forum from time to time) and that Catholics believe that God does not hear prayers. And the members ate it up with lots of tongue-clucking and laughter.

The lies told about Catholics by Mormon leaders was the first thing that started me doubting the inspired origins of the LDS church.

Thank you PaulDupre!

 

[vickimonica]

Hi Everyone !! You need to Google “Hot Mormon Muffins”, and “Men on a Mission”. They are calanders that a group of mormons made. Obviously they weren’t wearing their “Jesus jammies” for this one!!!

 

[thecourt]

Why do mormons use leavened bread and water instead of unleavened bread and wine? Even the Book of Mormon commands the use of wine.

The Word of Wisdom revelation received from the Lord to his prophet, Joseph Smith, changed that practice, when wine was used. Regarding the bread, the Lord has not revealed anything to his prophets, from Joseph Smith to the world’s current prophet.

 

[Jerusha]

The Word of Wisdom revelation received from the Lord to his prophet, Joseph Smith, changed that practice, when wine was used. Regarding the bread, the Lord has not revealed anything to his prophets, from Joseph Smith to the world’s current prophet.

To quote my father, “Bread and water is prison fare.” To be more specific, punishment for prisoners who have broken the rules. Seems to be be reasonable that JS deserved prison rather than death. Sorry, I just couldn’t resist it.

 

[thecourt]

To quote my father, “Bread and water is prison fare.” To be more specific, punishment for prisoners who have broken the rules. Seems to be be reasonable that JS deserved prison rather than death. Sorry, I just couldn’t resist it.

If you are referring to the false charges against Joseph Smith during the early days of the church, no one ever had evidence. Their issue then as it remains today is the revelations from the Lord to Joseph Smith and the modern day prophets have some continuing their indifference to and dislike of the revelations from the Lord. Attacking the prophets will happen I guess — the truth goes on boldly.

 

[twopekinguys]

If you are referring to the false charges against Joseph Smith during the early days of the church, no one ever had evidence. Their issue then as it remains today is the revelations from the Lord to Joseph Smith and the modern day prophets have some continuing their indifference to and dislike of the revelations from the Lord. Attacking the prophets will happen I guess — the truth goes on boldly.

False charges?

Ordering the destruction of a printing press was a false charge? LOL too funny.

“The Expositor appeared on Friday afternoon, and the following morning and the Monday thereafter the city council met to consider its threat to the peace and security of the city. With the powers granted by the city charter, they declared the newspaper a nuisance, as they felt its declarations threatened the security of the city. They authorized the mayor (Joseph Smith) to see that the nuisance was abated. The Prophet instructed the city marshal to abate the nuisance which he and his men accomplished by breaking into the printing shop, throwing the press into street where it was smashed with a sledge hammer, dumping the type into the street, and burning the undistributed copies of the newspaper. Such an extralegal method of abating a newspaper was not without precedent in Illinois (though not in keeping with long established practices concerning abatement of a public press), but it was viewed as a violation to the federal Constitution which forbids destruction of property without due process of law. The city council had only the authority to abate the nuisance by suspending further publication of the paper pending a court hearing which would determine whether it was a public nuisance.”

All of this because the paper exposed JS for practicing polygamy in private and denying it in public. Let’s see, 34 wives wasn’t it?

One of the biggest problems with the lds leadership is that no one can tell when they are speaking as a prophet.

It seems that when the current prophet says something that disagrees with a previous prophet stated, everyone just says that the previous prophet wasn’t speaking in that capacity. Not to mention all of the changes in the BoM, D & C, etc.

 

[Kdesiel]

False charges?Ordering the destruction of a printing press was a false charge? LOL too funny.

“The Expositor appeared on Friday afternoon, and the following morning and the Monday thereafter the city council met to consider its threat to the peace and security of the city. With the powers granted by the city charter, they declared the newspaper a nuisance, as they felt its declarations threatened the security of the city. They authorized the mayor (Joseph Smith) to see that the nuisance was abated. The Prophet instructed the city marshal to abate the nuisance which he and his men accomplished by breaking into the printing shop, throwing the press into street where it was smashed with a sledge hammer, dumping the type into the street, and burning the undistributed copies of the newspaper. Such an extralegal method of abating a newspaper was not without precedent in Illinois (though not in keeping with long established practices concerning abatement of a public press), but it was viewed as a violation to the federal Constitution which forbids destruction of property without due process of law. The city council had only the authority to abate the nuisance by suspending further publication of the paper pending a court hearing which would determine whether it was a public nuisance.”

All of this because the paper exposed JS for practicing polygamy in private and denying it in public. Let’s see, 34 wives wasn’t it?

One of the biggest problems with the lds leadership is that no one can tell when they are speaking as a prophet.

It seems that when the current prophet says something that disagrees with a previous prophet stated, everyone just says that the previous prophet wasn’t speaking in that capacity. Not to mention all of the changes in the BoM, D & C, etc.

T.P. - Minor details. Being a Prophet called of God gave J.Smith the divine right to usurp power over the masses. Destroying Private property, marrying multiple women some of those already married, keeping most of that secret…or sacred…or secret from his wife, defrauding people out of their money through bank scams…and on and on and on.

I say Minor details! I mean the Master said “By their fruits ye shall know them.” or essentially their actions will reveal who they are. J.Smith’s actions well…how can you say they weren’t noble he was only doing what every great tyra…or dictato…or Cultist lead…I mean Prophet has done, he did what he needed to do to get the job done. If that means infringing on the rights of others, stealing their wives and money all in the name of salvation, so be it.
I hope my sarcasm is coming through here.

My surprise is given Courts record and reputation for being forthright and honest, with great ability to give a credible argument supported by substantiated …oh wait…never mind.
This is the Guy/Gal who’s claimed at different times to be of different denominations. He has no moral or spiritual fidelity and is a blatant liar. Yeah his arguments hold a lot of water with me.
They are good for a laugh though.