Mormon shift toward more traditional Christianity?

[mormon_fool]

Asa Ben Judah:

When I first began my association with Mormons everything was simple, over the years I have discvered that things are not simple, on the contrary things are weighty.

…]

It might well be impossible for me to escape from this state of Limbo. We must have faith - pray for me!

ABJ,

I am impressed by your contributions to this thread. You are obviously very knowledgeable and yet humble enough to pray for guidance and direction in life. I wish you all the best in your search for truth. I look forward to seeing more your wisdom on the boards.

Thanks,
fool

 

[Asa_Ben_Judah]

Chazemataz:

I swear on my heart that I would treat it with respect if it did not claim to be based on the Christian religion and beleive in the Bible, and the title of this were not “Mormon shift toward more traditional Chrsitianity?”

You are right to defend what you know to be the truth and I pray that I can find the peace and conviction you clearly have.

 

[Asa_Ben_Judah]

Chazemataz:

Tell me if I got something wrong or misunderstood please. Thank you, sorry if I hurt you or anyone else’s feelings.

Nope, all you quotations are good, just out of context.

 

[Chazemataz]

Asa Ben Juda I dont know what to say. You are a very nice person and I iwill pray to have the kind of patience and kindness you have.

 

[Asa_Ben_Judah]

Dear Chazemataz

Of course I am aware that there are some very challenging teachings within the LDS Community that I have real difficulty with now. At first my association with the church began from a position of non-belief with no previous knowledge of the scriptures. As a child I never received any religious instruction that would properly awaken the latent love for God residing within my heart.

My wife and I accepted the LDS invitation to investigate and join the church over 28 years ago and so that latent love for God was awakened. Since then we have had three children and all are very active and committed LDS – my son is serving a mission at present. Notwithstanding all of this I harbour in my heart a desire to commune with God as a Catholic! This began after reading books written by Catholics and these days the bulk of my personal study of Holy Scripture is predominantly Bible based with the aid of Catholic exegesis, much to the disquiet of my family.

Don’t get me wrong! I have many issues relating to Catholic teaching so the situation is not straightforward. Nevertheless, there is definitely a longing to enter into the predominantly devotional nature of Catholicism. This thread has reinforced the reality that we are talking indeed about two very different religious traditions ostensibly worshipping, and finding salvation, through the same person of Jesus Christ. I wish I could have both; it is having to choose that is causing the pain.

Thank you for your blessing.

Never take for granted your beautiful Catholic Faith.

 

[Jo_s_Dad]

Chazemataz:

Guess where I will refer you to? Yes, Exodus 22:2-3. There is only ONE,1,UNO,SINGLE,ONLY God.

I don’t question that there is one and only one god, wheather your idea of God is God the father full stop, or God the Trinity or God the Godhead, but how can you argue monotheism from a book that was written 1500 years before the coming of Christ?

I think a better reference would be from John Chapter 17:22 (actually just read Chapter 17, it puts the Holy Spirit in context)
“And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one”

Chazemataz:

God resides near a star called Kolob Pearl of Great Price, pages 34-35

ROTFL!!! This is what happens when you use the internet as a source reference. You get all kinds of tripe that want you to pass it on without looking it up. Kinda like those chain E-mails that swear what they’re saying is true so take it at face value and pass it on to everyone you know.

First, the Pearl of Great Price is not numbered this way. It’s laid out in books and chapters. Saying “page 34-35” is like saying the story of Noah is in the Old Testament pages 9-13!

Next, it does not say “God resides near a star called Kolob”, what it does say is:

Starting at Abraham 3:12

[12] And he said unto me: My son, my son (and his hand was stretched out), behold I will show you all these. And he put his hand upon mine eyes, and I saw those things which his hands had made, which were many; and theymultiplied before mine eyes, and I could not see the end thereof.
[13] And he said unto me: This is Shinehah, which is the sun. And he said unto me: Kokob which is star. And he said unto me: Olea, which is the mooon. And he said unto me: Kokaubeam, which signifies stars, or all the great lights, which were in the firmament of heaven.
[14] And it was in the night time when the Lordspake these words unto me: I will multiply thee, and thy seed after thee, like unto these; and if thou canst count the number of sands, sho shall be the number of thy seeds.
[15] And the Lord said unto me: Abraham, I show these things unto thee before ye go into Egypt, that ye may declare all these words.
[16] If two things exist, and there be one above the other, there shall be greater things above them; therefore Kolob is the greatest of all the Kokaubea that thou hast seen, because it is nearest unto me.
[17] Now, if there be two things, one above the other, and the moon be above the earth, then it may be that a planet or a star may exist above it; ans there is nothing that the lord thy God shall take in his heart to do but what he ill do it.
[18] Howbeit that he made the greater star; as, also, if there be two spirit,s and one shall be more intelligent than the other, they these two spirits, notwithstanding one is more intelligent than the other, have no beginning; they existed before,they shall have no end, they shall exist after, for they are gnolaum, or eternal.

This belongs in the same file with those who believe that Moses was “Beamed up” to heaven, and the Chariots of Fire were UFO’s.


I also found a better explaination of Kolob

God Bless.

 

[tkdnick]

Asa Ben Judah:

Notwithstanding all of this I harbour in my heart a desire to commune with God as a Catholic! This began after reading books written by Catholics and these days the bulk of my personal study of Holy Scripture is predominantly Bible based with the aid of Catholic exegesis, much to the disquiet of my family.

Don’t get me wrong! I have many issues relating to Catholic teaching so the situation is not straightforward. Nevertheless, there is definitely a longing to enter into the predominantly devotional nature of Catholicism. This thread has reinforced the reality that we are talking indeed about two very different religious traditions ostensibly worshipping, and finding salvation, through the same person of Jesus Christ. I wish I could have both; it is having to choose that is causing the pain.

Thank you for your blessing.

Never take for granted your beautiful Catholic Faith.

I will add you to my prayers brother!

 

[Asa_Ben_Judah]

Jo's_Dad:

Starting at Abraham 3:12

[12] And he said unto me: My son, my son (and his hand was stretched out), behold I will show you all these. And he put his hand upon mine eyes, and I saw those things which his hands had made, which were many; and theymultiplied before mine eyes, and I could not see the end thereof.
[13] And he said unto me: This is Shinehah, which is the sun. And he said unto me: Kokob which is star. And he said unto me: Olea, which is the mooon. And he said unto me: Kokaubeam, which signifies stars, or all the great lights, which were in the firmament of heaven.
[14] And it was in the night time when the Lordspake these words unto me: I will multiply thee, and thy seed after thee, like unto these; and if thou canst count the number of sands, sho shall be the number of thy seeds.
[15] And the Lord said unto me: Abraham, I show these things unto thee before ye go into Egypt, that ye may declare all these words.
[16] If two things exist, and there be one above the other, there shall be greater things above them; therefore Kolob is the greatest of all the Kokaubea that thou hast seen, because it is nearest unto me.
[17] Now, if there be two things, one above the other, and the moon be above the earth, then it may be that a planet or a star may exist above it; ans there is nothing that the lord thy God shall take in his heart to do but what he ill do it.
[18] Howbeit that he made the greater star; as, also, if there be two spirit,s and one shall be more intelligent than the other, they these two spirits, notwithstanding one is more intelligent than the other, have no beginning; they existed before,they shall have no end, they shall exist after, for they are gnolaum, or eternal.

This belongs in the same file with those who believe that Moses was “Beamed up” to heaven, and the Chariots of Fire were UFO’s.

God Bless.

Of course I hope your readers will remember that this cosmological writing is not a product of the 20th century but the early 19th century!!!

I think it is quite remarkable bearing in mind that most LDS detractors love to remind us that Joseph Smith was an ignorant uneducated farm boy.

The Book of Mormon and other LDS scriptures deserve more than a cursory glance through the specs of incredulity.

 

[TOmNossor]

tkdnick:
HUH??? I think you mean Jews, not Gentiles. Right?

Actually…one downfall to only acknowledging the KJV is that you miss some of the translations directed more toward the actual meaning of the words that the literal translation of the words. Other versions say such things as “all nations”, “all peoples”, “everyone you meet”, “all countries”.

Webster’s definition of nation - 1) a stable, historically developed community of people with a territory, economic life, distinctive culture, and language in common; 2) the people of a territory united under a single government. Using this definition, it is clear that Jesus is talking about all people, not just the Jews in the diaspora. Also, Webster’s gives a definition of “nations” as found in the Bible - 1) the non-Jewish nations, Gentiles; 2) all the peoples of the earth. Jesus is talking about everyone, not just Jews.

TdNick,
I was reading something today and I was reminded of something on my “to do” list. I suspect it has been forgotten by all involved, and I doubt anyone was stewing over this, but I do. I truly did get on to other things, but I should acknowledge what this post says even though it will mean little to most folks.

I was indeed incorrect when I suggested that Jesus’ instructions to go to “all nations” was not instruction to teach the Gentiles. While I initially received a minor nod as I looked at this with AugustineH354, the Greek is pretty clear and I agree that “all nations” is associated with the gentiles.

I can still suggest that Peter was guided by his vision, but in some ways his vision was confirming something that Jesus had already instructed the Apostles to do. My point is weakened some.

BTW, I was working on some Matthew 16:18 stuff so we will see if I finish that post or not.
Oh and I did mean Jews.

Charity, TOm