Mormon sincerity

[August]

So, I’ve gotten to know a lot of Mormons recently, and have observed something interesting, which I’d like to get some perspective on. As a group, Mormons seem more devoted, more sure of their faith, and more involved in their church than any other religious group I’ve been around. (I’m judging religious groups as a whole, and generalizing horribly, of course) To me, it’s obvious that Mormonism makes no sense, and is not at all consistent with traditional Christianity. I simply see no rational basis for them to believe what they believe.

So the question I’d like to put up for discussion is this: Why are so many very intelligent, well educated, and sincere people so devoted to Mormonism? Are they just not thinking?

I appologize in advance if this topic has been discussed to death, I havent been on the board in a very long time.

 

[PaulDupre]

When I was a Mormon missionary in Taiwan, I met a group of the most sincere and “on fire” religious people I have ever met, before or since. They were called “The True Jesus Church”. They are peculiar to Taiwan (and perhaps Taiwanese emigrants) and numbered just a few hundred at the time. I have never witnessed such total devotion and piety.

However, their doctrine was so bizarre as to bear almost no resemblance to Christianity. It seemed a blending of Buddhism and Judaism with a bit of “blood of Jesus” thrown in. Their prayer consisted of shaking and moaning, much like ecstatic Buddhist prayer. The local congregation was under the complete domination of the pastor, who was considered a prophet of God.

Just because people are extremely devoted and pious does not imply that their religion is any more “true” than any other. In the case of Mormonism, it only means that their social system is built on mutual reassurance and reinforcement of their own correctness and the abject error of everyone else.

Paul (a former Mormon)

 

[why_me]

So, I’ve gotten to know a lot of Mormons recently, and have observed something interesting, which I’d like to get some perspective on. As a group, Mormons seem more devoted, more sure of their faith, and more involved in their church than any other religious group I’ve been around. (I’m judging religious groups as a whole, and generalizing horribly, of course) To me, it’s obvious that Mormonism makes no sense, and is not at all consistent with traditional Christianity. I simply see no rational basis for them to believe what they believe.

So the question I’d like to put up for discussion is this: Why are so many very intelligent, well educated, and sincere people so devoted to Mormonism? Are they just not thinking?

I appologize in advance if this topic has been discussed to death, I havent been on the board in a very long time.

When the holy ghost testifies that the book of mormon is true and that spirit stays within the person manifesting itself in many little ways, there is no going back.

However, some do leave the faith as is the case with most faiths.

 

[RebeccaJ]

Why are so many very intelligent, well educated, and sincere people so devoted to Mormonism? Are they just not thinking?

When the holy ghost testifies that the book of mormon is true and that spirit stays within the person manifesting itself in many little ways,** there is no going back**.

However, some do leave the faith as is the case with most faiths.

Here is your answer. I call it the “Mormon double-think” or just simply “disconnect”. In the sense that, one thought is disconnected from another, conveying two (or more) opposed thoughts at once.

 

[why_me]

Here is your answer. I call it the “Mormon double-think” or just simply “disconnect”. In the sense that, one thought is disconnected from another, conveying two (or more) opposed thoughts at once.

You know what I mean, Rebecca. Even at the time of Paul, people left the faith because it no longer suited their interests or lifestyle. And it made no difference what was manifested inside of them, they still left the faith and joined the pagans.

And in Mormonism we have the example of the witnesses to the Book of Mormon. Many left the fold but never denied what they saw. We humans are an interchanging lot and you and I are no different when it comes to changing points of view.

 

[BartBurk]

When the holy ghost testifies that the book of mormon is true and that spirit stays within the person manifesting itself in many little ways, there is no going back.

However, some do leave the faith as is the case with most faiths.

So you are one of those who left the Mormon faith to return to Catholicism, right? Why did you leave Mormonism to become Catholic again?

 

[chris_molter]

So the question I’d like to put up for discussion is this: Why are so many very intelligent, well educated, and sincere people so devoted to Mormonism? Are they just not thinking?

The psychology of belief is a very complex field. The reasons why an otherwise intelligent, education and sincere person could believe in something with little or no rational basis or whose foundation has been shown to be false or very likely false are numerous and often have more to do with the person’s developmental background than any sort of mental deficiency.

Example: Someone raised to believe certain things are true are more likely to maintain that belief if it is reinforced in a way congruent to that person’s mental and emotional development.

 

[why_me]

The psychology of belief is a very complex field. The reasons why an otherwise intelligent, education and sincere person could believe in something with little or no rational basis or whose foundation has been shown to be false or very likely false are numerous and often have more to do with the person’s developmental background than any sort of mental deficiency.

Example: Someone raised to believe certain things are true are more likely to maintain that belief if it is reinforced in a way congruent to that person’s mental and emotional development.

I think that this would go for most religious faith. For example, can a rational person actually believe in the communion of saints? Or in apparitions of the virgin mary? Or in guardian angels? How could an intelligent and sincere person believe in such things? So would an atheist say.

The answer is more complex than what your wrote. People believe because they want to believe. And who is to say the the mormon faith is false? And who is to say that the catholic faith is false? I see no foundation in both faiths that has been proven false.

 

[why_me]

So you are one of those who left the Mormon faith to return to Catholicism, right? Why did you leave Mormonism to become Catholic again?

It suits me better. But like I said previously, I received a witness to the book of mormon but I find more comfort in the catholic faith.

I enjoy the company of priests, nuns and catholic lay people.

 

[BartBurk]

It suits me better. But like I said previously, I received a witness to the book of mormon but I find more comfort in the catholic faith.

I enjoy the company of priests, nuns and catholic lay people.

So do you think Catholicism is what it claims to be? Or do you think Mormonism is what it claims to be? Or do you think they are both “true”? And don’t laugh at that last question – I think there are others who hold that position.

 

[August]

I think that this would go for most religious faith. For example, can a rational person actually believe in the communion of saints? Or in apparitions of the virgin mary? Or in guardian angels? How could an intelligent and sincere person believe in such things? So would an atheist say.

Well, thats true in some respects, but with Mormonism, its really a different animal. The Catholic Church believes some things that cant be proven rationally, but it doesnt tell me to believe in civilizations for which there is no evidence. The book of Mormon asks people to believe in civilizations in the Americas which archeology has proven never existed. Not to start a debate about the BOM, but I suppose I just did.

 

[Jerusha]

I tihnk we have exhausted that subject. Check back on threads that debate the subject.

There is minimal evidence for the history contained in the BOM. What does exist, turns the meaning of the BOM upside-down.

search.msn.com/images/results.aspx?q=l’anse+aux+meadows&F"ORM=BIRE#

Pictures sometimes do better than words.

 

[chris_molter]

I think that this would go for most religious faith. For example, can a rational person actually believe in the communion of saints? Or in apparitions of the virgin mary? Or in guardian angels? How could an intelligent and sincere person believe in such things? So would an atheist say.

The answer is more complex than what your wrote. People believe because they want to believe. And who is to say the the mormon faith is false? And who is to say that the catholic faith is false? I see no foundation in both faiths that has been proven false.

I agree, the answer is much more complex. The whole psychology of belief and religion is amazingly complicated. However, I think it’s also more complex that what you wrote as well! I’m not sure people believe because they want to believe. Some people likely do, but I doubt that’s the case for all or even most. I certainly didn’t want to believe that Christianity was true. I definitely didn’t want to believe that Catholicism was true, but I became convinced it was, regardless.

The difference is that some things ARE factually verifiable, such as the aforementioned civilizations. No such contradictory historical evidence exists in contradiction to Catholicism. When a religion enters into the world of falsifiable or verifiable history, it risks losing credibility if it teaches things contrary to science or historical fact (fossil record, anthropological/archeological evidence, DNA, etc).

As for atheism, you’re right. But things outside of the verifiable are believed by atheists as well, even though they’re loathe to admit it. The difference is they believe in different presuppositions than theists.

 

[Ruthie]

Let’s not wander down the bunny trail of atheism, please!

Jerusha, your link led to a lot of pictures, not just one. Can you post a better link?

Thanks,

Ruthie

 

[Jerusha]

Sure. Here is an experimental paper. solomonspalding.com/SRP/saga2/sagawt0J.htm

The current version is 130 pages. The more I dig, the more evidence I find.

 

[Cairone]

I don’t know if it is profitable at all to jump in on this, but I thought I’d share my two cents.

The problem is not that “someone of intelligence should know better”, as the OP indirectly seems to state, but that more than any other religion that professes belief in Christ, the divergent point of Mormons from the Catholic worldview is very, very, early in the hierarchy of beliefs.

I think one of the most important debates between Catholicism and Mormonism is the creation ex nihilo debate. If you believe that matter is (as a whole) infinite and eternal, it right there begins to place you in a worldview radically divergent from a worldview that believes in creation ex nihilo.

I’ve seen a lot of arguments on this forum debating at a very high level (by this I mean far removed from the point of divergence), and what ends up happening is people thinking the opposition must be blind, idiotic, stubborn, crazy, and so on for adhering to their beliefs. This is not so. When position A has consequences U, V, and W, and position B has consequences X, Y, and Z which directly oppose (respectively) U, V, and W, it does little good to write off Z because it contradicts W when the underlying assumptions are radically different.

For example, let’s look at the Catholic view of one eternal God versus the Mormon view of an infinite progression of exaltation. Debating whether the Bible meant “One God, period” or “One God of this universe” teeters to one side or the other depending on whether creation ex nihilo is accepted. If you reject creation out of nothing, then you must accept eternal matter, and from that viewpoint, it makes a lot of sense to suppose that God was Himself shaped from that matter by an earlier God, and so on. If you accept creation from nothing, the argument teeters towards a single God that created everything.

As I learn more and more about the LDS, the more impressed I am by how consistent and self-contained their views are. It really only takes a couple of (granted, huge and fundamental) changes of how a person views the world to look at the Mormon faith and embrace it whole.

Of course, all of my reasoning has led me to believe in an eternal, all-powerful God that created ex nihilo, so I have no other recourse than to maintain my Catholic faith.

Cairone