I think of the doctrines of the two religions like I was looking at a pile of puzzle pieces. But there is a big difference. The Catholic Church can put its pile of pieces together and make a pretty picture. When a Mormon is asked to put its pieces together it almost never happens. After watching them try for awhile, we usually hear something like this:
Or me might hear a variation of “Same to you but more of it.”
I do not of any Saint that was perfect.Saint Anthony of Padua is the Patron saint of lost things. We do not pray to the Saints we ask them to pray for us just as we pray for one another we also ask the saints to pray for us. As for people kissing the Cross on Good Friday an Adoration of the Cross to which the Salvation of the world was brought into Glory.
Quote is from the Enchiridion of Indulgences (not quoted from the most recent edition. I don’t have access to a fourth edition in English.)
Now the action being looked at by someone from the inside looks very different than from the outside. Questions like why would you kiss a chunk of wood? Where in the bible does it tell you to kiss a chunk of wood? even done to what about germs and slivers? There are many issues which on the surface to those familiar make a whole lot of sense, but are complex if time is taken to explor the various issues and angles.
In the past, I have been accused of having a religion that is full of rules and too complicated. Therefore, I do not tell LDS that their faith is too complicated. I find Catholicism straightforward. I expect most LDS feel the same way about their faith. But unless you are familiar with a faith, perhaps even from the inside, you might not know what makes a member of it tick. I do know that from the outside looking in, it seems that genealogy is of unusual importance to LDS, and I tend to assume this has some relation to the practice of baptism for those who are dead. Perhaps from the outside looking in, Catholics have a strange habit of hanging crosses that have the body of Jesus on them around their house and of meditating upon the events of Christ’s passion (like our devotion called the way of the cross). I do understand that we appear different from each other!
That’s what makes a discussion board fruitful in understanding. We talk and learn. You sure kicked off a little debate!Ok, what you have said here is reasonable – and points out a couple of things. I don’t think either of us disputes that there is evil “on this earth” and that God is all Good – so that in a certain way there is a fundamental limit to what God can “do” to improve the sinful world we live in. And I suppose it is no surprise that this problem of evil might continue in hell(s).
The concern I have is limited to the idea of payment and hell, that one who “pays” the price can not enter a heaven until an arbitrary ritual happens on earth for them by proxy. In what I say, I am trying to put my understanding into words – and where I mistake things, please point them out – it helps so much.
Zerinus, I have no control over how the LDS religion came into existence or why they chose historically to use some Christian terms the way they did. If you think this of me, fine – it is no less than what I do with Catholic Doctrine as anyone who goes through my public back posts would know.
If you really want to explore Mormonism (from a doctrinal point of view at least), I will show you a good way. Get hold of a copy of all the LDS scriptures (Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants, and Pearl of Great Price), and just read through them. You don’t need to do anything else. You will know a lot more by doing that, than by just asking questions from Mormons in here. Nothing wrong with asking questions either; but if you did that, you could then ask more informed and searching questions which can solicit more intelligent answers.
I’m just trying to keep it down to two sentences – but this indicates that LDS believe Jesus didn’t actually preach to the souls in prison, although LDS use the bible verse to say that preaching was necessary – I normally believe bible verses unless I have evidence that there is a reason why it is not fully explained – but the solution (D&C30) is to recruit others to do this task, how is it that the time was too short just to preach the message – but not so short that he could find, teach to memory (I assume there are no bodies or paper in this world) in that same short period of time, while still not preaching among the dead?
The Mormon idea of the “Spirit World” specifically the Spirit Prison ROUGHLY equates to “the Bosom of Abraham” HOWEVER, in LDS theology this probation state is currently still open for business.
The nephites I overlooked.
According to the LDS church, yes, only 3 days.
Yes, I got that part. So, they ignore the heaven that birds fly in, and count three other heavens… and it seems that the only true “hell” is the “outer darkness” or something like that. So there appears to be 4 states/places total for the end.
Not to mention that the only LDS I talked to mentioned that St. John was never to die, and I think 4 others in the Americas — but they all disappeared from the tangible earth. Are we to understand he imagined them Translated into the Celestial kingdom?
That is exactly the kind of thing which would be interesting to talk about, in addition to obvious biblical clashes. Do you recall where this might be stated, in D&C or someplace else?
That is a good site for doing searches or looking up passages, but not for reading the whole of the scriptures. That is best done from a book. You can get paperback editions quite cheaply. You can obtain the Bible and Book of Mormon for free from here; but the Tripple Combination unfortunately does not seem to be available for free. A paperback edition of that, however, can be obtained for a reasonable price from any distribution center, or by asking any Mormon friends or missionaries you may know.
That illustrates my point very well. That didn’t mean that the Ethiopian shouldn’t have been reading the Bible at all. If he hadn’t been reading his Bible, he wouldn’t have known what was said to be able to ask intelligent questions about them. If you read the LDS scriptures I had told you, there may be passages in them that will not be clear on the first reading; but there will be many more passages that will be clear, and you will learn a lot from them. The bits that are not clear at first will become clear as you read along, or as you ask questions later.
They may appear like searching questions to you, but may not be very intelligent questions if you haven’t familiarized yourself with the original materials in the first place.
The heaven that the scriptures talk about is the heaven that God and the immortal angels dwell, not the one in which mortal birds fly.
Your sentences appear a bit confused, and I am not quite sure I have understood your question. But as far as I can understand the question, the reason why Jesus did not manifest Himself to all the dead in the spirit world was not just because He didn’t have the time to; but because they had been sinners, and therefore unworthy of His presence. Therefore Jesus appointed the righteous spirits whom He had appeared to and instructed, to go and preach to those whom He had not personally visited because of their unwothiness.
Your guess would be as good as mine; but I would say they ran into billions, not millions.