Mormon Student at Notre Dame Converts to Catholicism

[Catholic20064]

How many catholic converts remain active? And what is an active catholic? An ‘active’ catholic goes to mass every sunday especially the days of obligation. Plus, there are retreats, adorations and devotionals. Difficult to say just how many active catholics there are and how many participate in church other than the sunday mass. And we must not forget the rosary. An active catholic would need to say the rosary at least once a week.

In the lds church it is easy to see who is active and who is less active.

An active Catholic is one who would attend mass every Sunday and on holy days of obligation. Everything else is optional. There is no requirement to say the Rosary or any other prayer. As I have been drawn towards the Lord I have found a desire within myself to attend mass daily, pray the Rosary and pray the Divine Mercy Chaplet. There is so much grace available for us if we avail ourselves of these opportunities! It is wonderful even though I am under no obligation to go to mass everyday or pray these wonderful prayers. I also try to attend Eucharistic Adoration as often as possible so I can be in the presence of the Lord physically as well as spiritually. I encourage all of the Mormons here to begin praying the Rosary and see what wonderful things it does for you spiritually! Read the Bible everyday along with these prayers and mass and Eucharistic Adoration and you will experience the true presence of Jesus in your lives in a way I never experienced going to the Mormon sacrament meeting and reading the Book of Mormon. Jesus is so close to us – as close as the nearest Catholic chapel! And then to actually partake of the Eucharist and experience him withing us, feeding us. There is simply nothing like the feeling I get as a faithful Catholic practicing my faith. I miss some of the social aspects of Mormonism, but Jesus makes up for it with his real presence. It’s hard to tear away from the social life and the social pressure that Mormons have to experience a testimony of the Book of Mormon, but there is something freeing about being able to live my faith without social pressure! Nobody in the parish would know if I missed mass, but I wouldn’t want to give up my special time with Jesus.

 

[Stephen168]

How many catholic converts remain active? And what is an active catholic? An ‘active’ catholic goes to mass every sunday especially the days of obligation. Plus, there are retreats, adorations and devotionals. Difficult to say just how many active catholics there are and how many participate in church other than the sunday mass. And we must not forget the rosary. An active catholic would need to say the rosary at least once a week.

If you are going to continue to pretend you are Catholic, you should at least know The Precepts of the Church.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

I don’t regret posting that! A lot of Catholics are killing themselves over the Mormon temple in Rome. I don’t mind giving them a gun to shoot themselves with if that is what they want!

zerinus

Seeing the third sentence, I had to check if you said Muslim or Mormon.

 

[zaffiroborant]

How many catholic converts remain active? And what is an active catholic? An ‘active’ catholic goes to mass every sunday especially the days of obligation. Plus, there are retreats, adorations and devotionals. Difficult to say just how many active catholics there are and how many participate in church other than the sunday mass. And we must not forget the rosary. **An active catholic would need to say the rosary at least once a week. **

In the lds church it is easy to see who is active and who is less active.

Yes an active Catholic goes to Mass every Sunday and on Holy Days, but you left out a major item for an active Catholic. What is it?

As for your list of activities that a Catholic may participate in, it’s just a drop in the bucket. Our Parish has 48 ministries you can participate in. Of these 18 are service ministries, 12 are worship and 9 are formation ministries. I could easily spend 2 to 4 hours everyday at church in various ministries, this wouldn’t leave much time for my family though. Among the ministries in formation is RE(religious education) for children K-8, we have 135 volunteers for that alone. But there is no requirement for participation people are free to choose their level of activity. No one will assign you to a ministry, nor will they question you on your level of activity.

As for the Rosary, it is a wonderful devotional, but an active Catholic does not need to say the Rosary. I would recommend it of course but it seems it just doesn’t suit some people and that’s fine like I said no Catholic needs to say the Rosary

 

[LDNCatholic]

I don’t regret posting that! A lot of Catholics are killing themselves over the Mormon temple in Rome. I don’t mind giving them a gun to shoot themselves with if that is what they want!

zerinus

You boys have a pair of temples in England. You have not quite experienced the massive growth you hope to achieve. Not many Catholics are losing sleep over a false temple being built in Rome. Rome allows mosques, synagogues, mandirs. The next step is to allow your young congregation to open a temple.

 

[zerinus]

You boys have a pair of temples in England. You have not quite experienced the massive growth you hope to achieve.

We build the temples when the growth has already taken place. And for your information we have around eleven temples in Europe. Rome will be the latest in the series.

Not many Catholics are losing sleep over a false temple being built in Rome.

I am sure most of them aren’t. But there is a small group of radicals who are, and even want to try and prevent it. But they won’t succeed. Wherever we have built temple, it has met with opposition. But it has never got anywhere.

zerinus

 

[LDNCatholic]

We build the temples when the growth has already taken place. And for your information we have around eleven temples in Europe. Rome will be the latest in the series.

I have no need for that information, I was speaking about Europe. There are 11 Catholic churches within 6 or 7 miles of my house, in a Protestant nation. Each with hundreds of regular worshippers.

I am sure most of them aren’t. But there is a small group of radicals who are, and even want to try and prevent it. But they won’t succeed. Wherever we have built temple, it has met with opposition. But it has never got anywhere.

zerinus

Oh well. I would say good luck but obviously I do not wish your church luck in their efforts to lead sheep astray.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

I am sure most of them aren’t. But there is a small group of radicals who are, and even want to try and prevent it. But they won’t succeed. Wherever we have built temple, it has met with opposition. But it has never got anywhere.

zerinus

What happened to the Temple, prophesied by Joseph Smith, in Missouri?

THE
DOCTRINE AND COVENANTS
OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS
SECTION 84:1 - 5

1 A arevelation of Jesus Christ unto his servant Joseph Smith, Jun., and six elders, as they bunited their hearts and clifted their voices on high.
2 Yea, the word of the Lord concerning his church, established in the last days for the arestoration of his people, as he has spoken by the mouth of his bprophets, and for the cgathering of his dsaints to stand upon eMount Zion, which shall be the city of fNew Jerusalem.
3 Which city shall be abuilt, beginning at the btemple lot, which is appointed by the finger of the Lord, in the western boundaries of the State of Missouri, and cdedicated by the hand of Joseph Smith, Jun., and others with whom the Lord was well pleased.
4 Verily this is the word of the Lord, that the city aNew Jerusalem shall be built by the gathering of the saints, beginning at this place, even the place of the temple, which btemple shall be creared in this dgeneration.
5 For verily this generation shall not all apass away until an bhouse shall be built unto the Lord, and a ccloud shall rest upon it, which cloud shall be even the dglory of the Lord, which shall fill the house.

Doesn’t the Church of Christ (Temple Lot) sect of Mormonism, own that property?

In 1891, the RLDS Church sued this Church for the “temple lot”. It resulted favorably toward that Church, but being appealed to a federal circuit court, the decision was overturned in favor of the Church of Christ. We have occupied it since as our world headquarters site.

 

[1edyson]

I don’t regret posting that! A lot of Catholics are killing themselves over the Mormon temple in Rome. I don’t mind giving them a gun to shoot themselves with if that is what they want!

zerinus

:dts:

 

[RebeccaJ]

How many catholic converts remain active? And what is an active catholic? An ‘active’ catholic goes to mass every sunday especially the days of obligation. Plus, there are retreats, adorations and devotionals. Difficult to say just how many active catholics there are and how many participate in church other than the sunday mass. And we must not forget the rosary. An active catholic would need to say the rosary at least once a week.

In the lds church it is easy to see who is active and who is less active.

There is no compulsion to say the Rosary. In RCIA we were not taught how to say a Rosary. It is something I learned from other Catholics.

A devout Catholic goes to Mass every Sunday, as every Sunday is a day of obligation. It is one of the ways we show our love for God and so falls under “thou shalt love the lord thy God”. A missed Sunday Mass should be confessed, as a sin against God.

A devout Catholic seeks to follow God, which includes keeping the commandments and daily prayers. A devout Catholic goes to confession.

Those are the basics. Beyond that, God leads people to where they need to be. People can participate in many different kinds of devotions. Some are tied to the liturgical calendars, others are more personal. No one is checking up on anyone to make sure they are adhering to at least 10 other devotions. You have no idea what devotions people have. We don’t make a list of our devotions and read it off to the congregation at Mass.

 

[Jerusha]

I don’t regret posting that! A lot of Catholics are killing themselves over the Mormon temple in Rome. I don’t mind giving them a gun to shoot themselves with if that is what they want!

zerinus

I don’t mind it. When the LDS church goes bankrupt, there will hopefully be a bunch of potential buyers. When a religion is true, history will tell. When a church is false, history will tell.

 

[hawkeye]

News story here. Somebody posted it on MADB. That is where I first heard of it.

His family, Checketts admits, is not very happy about his conversion. Most Mormon men his age are serving as a missionary somewhere around the world. But Levi says they take some consolation in that, if he’s not Mormon, he’s chosen a faith which many Mormons perceive as the faith most likely to have it right if the Latter Day Saints have it wrong.

Didn’t know Mormons had doubts like it said in the news story… if I had doubts about the Catholic Church, then I wouldn’t be in it.

Catholics make almost no overt effort to convert Mormons, but some of us convert anyway.

All we can do is plant seeds, better not to browbeat people, otherwise they will not stick it like the latter part of your post refers to with the Mormon converts.

And Matthews Gospel even says this, " they believe for awhile."

 

[ParkerD]

I don’t mind it. When a religion is true, history will tell. When a church is false, history will tell.

Jerusha,
History will tell, yes indeed–no question about that. The other silly comment shows incredible ignorance. Have a good day.

 

[zerinus]

Didn’t know Mormons had doubts like it said in the news story… if I had doubts about the Catholic Church, then I wouldn’t be in it.

Rest assured that I have no doubts about Mormonism.

zerinus

 

[xixxvmcm85]

I don’t regret posting that! A lot of Catholics are killing themselves over the Mormon temple in Rome. I don’t mind giving them a gun to shoot themselves with if that is what they want!

I’ve noticed this too but can’t quite understand the concern. From what I understand, Rome (and Italy in general) grants its citizens freedom of religion. Protestant churches, Muslim mosques, Jewish Synagogues, and Kingdom Halls of the Jehovah’s Witnesses already exist there. What “harm” is there in allowing for the creation of a building that reflects the already present adherence in the nation?

Personally as a Catholic (I’ve been waiting so long to say that!!! ) I don’t see the issue. Catholics still account for some 90% of Italy, and as far as the “size envy” is concerned, I don’t see the LDS church being able to construct an edifice larger than Vatican City itself.

The only thing I pray the LDS do is to model the architecture of the temple after the surrounding, Roman architecture. The LDS in the past have at times been good at this (see the Oakland California Temple and the Mexico City Temple) and at others, they make gawdy, space-ship like temples. For your own sake, I hope your church builds a temple that doesn’t look out of place.

You boys have a pair of temples in England. You have not quite experienced the massive growth you hope to achieve.

This is an interesting point. I wonder what would have happened if the early LDS church didn’t insist that its English converts move to Utah, and rather took the post-JFS paradigm of “building up Zion remotely”. Maybe the demographics would be different today. As it is today, the vast majority of American LDS are of either English or Scandinavian stock (including my family).

We build the temples when the growth has already taken place. And for your information we have around eleven temples in Europe. Rome will be the latest in the series.

True. I do wonder though, is Rome going to be another one of the more modern, small temples, thus indicating a smaller than expected LDS population?

I am sure most of them aren’t. But there is a small group of radicals who are, and even want to try and prevent it. But they won’t succeed. Wherever we have built temple, it has met with opposition. But it has never got anywhere.

And surely you have some citation for these “small group of radicals”… I haven’t heard of any conspiracies, only certain bitter Catholics complaining.

There is no compulsion to say the Rosary. In RCIA we were not taught how to say a Rosary. It is something I learned from other Catholics.

Indeed. I in fact learned to pray the Rosary prior to even starting RCIA or even visiting a Catholic Mass. In many ways, I believe I owe much of my conversion to that wonderful devotion.

I don’t mind it. When the LDS church goes bankrupt, there will hopefully be a bunch of potential buyers. When a religion is true, history will tell. When a church is false, history will tell.

I’d be careful with this kind of reasoning. I don’t see the LDS church going bankrupt any time soon. There are distinct differences in how finances are handled between the Catholic and LDS churches:

1. The LDS require a 10%, Old Testament style tithe. Failure to admit to paying this tithe will keep an otherwise active, “in good standing” Latter-day Saint from going to the temple. The Catholic Church on the other hand relies on at-will donations of any amount.
2. The LDS church’s finances are centralized, whereas (I understand) the Catholic church’s are localized. Salt Lake City determines where and how much money goes, and so is in a better position to optimize “buoyancy” (if you will) of the organization. From what I understand, money donated in a parish will (at most) be sent to the Diocese from whence it is allocated. This is precisely why we see certain Diocese flourishing, while others are going bankrupt, having to sell off church property.

I don’t think you’d want to make the argument that the Catholic Church must be “partially false” or that certain diocese are “false, in error” simply because they’ve gone bankrupt.

Didn’t know Mormons had doubts like it said in the news story… if I had doubts about the Catholic Church, then I wouldn’t be in it.

I don’t believe its a matter of doubt, rather than a matter of logical deduction (from their axiom). Remember, the LDS believe in the “Great Apostasy”, meaning that for them there was a very real time when there was no “Gospel” to be had (for nearly 1800 years). As there was no objectively “true church”, but hundreds of denominations have sprung up during this “apostasy”, they simply compare doctrine and church structure to that of their own (which they “know” to be true a priori) and determine “which churches are closest to being true”.

It’s a very interesting view, in my opinion. I was raised LDS in the latter part of the 20th century, when ecumenism was everywhere and tolerance became a virtue. Naturally I was raised to respect Catholicism and Catholics specifically as they “had the church closest to being true”. Only 80 years ago, my grandfather was taught that the Catholic Church was the “abominable Church that gutted the ordinances, changed the priesthood, and whored the gospel out”. I do say, I much prefer the modern belief.

 

[xixxvmcm85]

Now, as to the original post…

I think its great that this young man has found the Catholic Church (obviously as I’m a former Mormon, recent Catholic Convert).

I don’t think this individual conversion (or even mass conversions) says anything about the validity of either church.

Argumentum ad Populum, folks… remember.

 

[zaffiroborant]

The student is now defending himself from the attacks on the blog and also on the MAAD board. I you follow Z’a links you can read what he says about his conversion. And also what other LDS are saying about it.

 

[RebeccaJ]

Typical.

 

[zerinus]

The only thing I pray the LDS do is to model the architecture of the temple after the surrounding, Roman architecture. The LDS in the past have at times been good at this (see the Oakland California Temple and the Mexico City Temple) and at others, they make gawdy, space-ship like temples. For your own sake, I hope your church builds a temple that doesn’t look out of place.

That is a valid point. I am sure the Church is aware of that, and will take that factor into consideration in designing the architecture of the building.

zerinus

 

[why_me]

Many pull out what Joseph Smith to make him look bad, but what Joseph Smith said, doesn’t make him look bad? Isn’t that like killing the messenger?

Is Paul actually boasting, or only boasting according to Mormon interpretation?

The “someone” that took notes, was a Mormon. It’s only when the boast, or anything else Smith said, comes into question, that the “someone’s” note taking ability comes into question…

Paul was boasting. But not necessarily in a negative way. But to make a point.