Mormon Temple Ceremony and Magic

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zerinus said:
And I consider your religion to be dead and apostate.

zerinus
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Apparently your Temple Ceremony includes magic, elements of occultism based on the Masonic pledges and symbols and simulations of pagan fertility rites. If this is incorrect, you could clear this up immediately. Your reticence to speak about it only confirms that the webpage is accurate. How in the world this could be considered to be related in any way to Christ or the New Testament is beyond me.
 
zerinus said:
Everything except casting my pearls before swine. 🙂

zerinus
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I don’t get it. You are apparently here to defend Mormonism and, I assume, possibly get some recruits but you’re not willing to be entirely forthcoming about what your religion teaches. If you are not willing to share your faith in its entirety with us, then what is the objective in sharing just a little?
 
Eden said:
Apparently your Temple Ceremony includes magic, elements of occultism based on the Masonic pledges and symbols and simulations of pagan fertility rites. If this is incorrect, you could clear this up immediately. Your reticence to speak about it only confirms that the webpage is accurate. How in the world this could be considered to be related in any way to Christ or the New Testament is beyond me.
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Same answer as before. No comment.

zerinus
 
zerinus said:
Same answer as before. No comment.

zerinus
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Don’t you think that the fact that you are not allowed to speak about your religion with us, to the point that you have to plead the fifth is somewhat suspicious? Shouldn’t truth be able to withstand the light of day?
 
Eden said:
I don’t get it. You are apparently here to defend Mormonism and, I assume, possibly get some recruits but you’re not willing to be entirely forthcoming about what your religion teaches. If you are not willing to share your faith in its entirety with us, then what is the objective in sharing just a little?
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In the Doctrine and Covenants the Lord instructs Church members to preach “nothing but repentance unto this generation”. That would be my message to the people of this board if they are genuinely interested in that.

zerinus
 
Eden said:
I see that possibility raised, but does that negate the description of the ceremony?

Near the bottom of the page it says:

From my reading and correspondence and from people who have first-hand knowledge of the secret/sacred ceremonies – one is my old girlfriend Joy, who told me many of the same things --I conclude that this is real. If you can ignore the specific references “proving” Mormonism false, and concentrate on the reporter’s observations, you will learn what Mormons do to each other ‘on their own time’.
… And the kicker is… its’ all tax-deductible!
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No, it may not negate the truthfulness of the description of the ceremony. I’ve never seen or heard (1st or 2nd hand) what goes on in the temple ceremonies; I’ve only ever read about them in the various sites on line.

My point was that Mormons take offense at their sacred things being called magic, just as we Catholics do. The accuracy or inaccuracy of the description not withstanding, I doubt Mormon’s believe their “sacred garments” have any magical powers.

I will leave the discussion of the temple ceremonies themselves to more knowledgeable folks than myself.
 
Eden said:
This is a new thread based on a webpage someone posted elsewhere. So as not to derail that thread, I’m posting here.

Here is the link to the webpage in question:

nowscape.com/mormon/mormcr1.htm#index

What is the meaning of magic in Mormonism, for instance “magic underpants” as mentioned in the article? How do Mormons defend their belief in “magic” and “secret handshakes” against accusations of occultism and paganism? Do Mormons not see occultism and paganism as antithetical to God?
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It depends on what you call occult. For instance, a Christian would think that if a man claimed to be able to use a special “seer stone” to divine the whereabouts of buried pirate treasure, he is practicing the occult.

If that same man claimed that with that same “seer stone” he could translate unknown languages and reveal hitherto unknown scriptures, he would also be considered by Christians to be an occultist.

But Joseph Smith did both of these things. The first, the Mormons shrug off as a “youthful indiscretion”. The second, they acclaim, is “the gift and power of God”.

Joseph Smith also instituted the use of secret masonic handshakes and passwords (and until 1990, blood oaths) in the temple endowment. Those handshakes and passwords are necessary to pass by the angels that guard the way to the celestial kingdom. This is considered occult (and silly) by Christians. But the practice was never questioned by Mormons because it was done by Joseph Smith.

So the rule seems to be: If Joseph Smith did it, it was okay because he was God’s prophet.

Remember that Mormonism grew out of the simple folk of rural New York and Pennsylvania. There was a common belief in magic among those people, and especially in the Smith family. So it is only natural that a man-made religion would incorporate the false beliefs of the men who created it.

Here’s an especially interesting book about magic as a factor in early Mormonism.

Paul
 
Eden said:
Don’t you think that the fact that you are not allowed to speak about your religion with us, to the point that you have to plead the fifth is somewhat suspicious? Shouldn’t truth be able to withstand the light of day?
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No! If they did, they wouldn’t go and join our church in droves, as they do! 😃

zerinus
 
zerinus said:
No! If they did, they wouldn’t go and join our church in droves, as they do! 😃

zerinus
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I believe that since DNA analysis proved that the American Indian was not related in any way to the supposed lost tribe of Israel the Mormon Church has been losing Hispanics in droves.
 
juno24 said:
No, it may not negate the truthfulness of the description of the ceremony. I’ve never seen or heard (1st or 2nd hand) what goes on in the temple ceremonies; I’ve only ever read about them in the various sites on line.

My point was that Mormons take offense at their sacred things being called magic, just as we Catholics do. The accuracy or inaccuracy of the description not withstanding, I doubt Mormon’s believe their “sacred garments” have any magical powers.

I will leave the discussion of the temple ceremonies themselves to more knowledgeable folks than myself.
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Thank you juno for your fair-minded and sober approach to the subject.

zerinus
 
estesbob said:
I believe that since DNA analysis proved that the American Indian was not related in any way to the supposed lost tribe of Israel the Mormon Church has been losing Hispanics in droves.
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Keep changing the subject until you are dead!

zerinus
 
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