Mormon Temple Weddings

[TexanKnight]

Thanks TexanKnight for answering my questions! I think it is interesting about the 10% I understand its importance its in the Bible and the Catholic church asks us to tithe as well. But to say you can’t get in to the temples and consequently using this logic Heaven is well wrong. I feel bad for people who believe this way as it is not what Jesus or the Bible states.

One more question, I have heard the term Jack Mormon before is that someone who was/is Mormon but does not go to church or activities?

Jack Mormon would a person who is Mormon in name only, but does not follow the rules of the lds church

 

[TexanKnight]

Hi Try, you don’t need to feel bad for me - Texan is wordsmithing. Don’t pay tithing and go to heaven all you want.

I am not wordsmithing If you believe I am, show me where. I stated the complete truth. If you do not pay your 10% temple fee, you do not go to the celestial kingdom. That is fact.

But thanks for the good thoughts.I guess it’s a similar term to “Christmas Only Catholic”, signifying someone who really doesn’t do much at all to observe one’s religion. My mom called herself a Jack Mormon - she never went to church or prayed, and she smoked and sometimes drank alcohol.

 

[TexanKnight]

Okay, so an LDS couple can have a civil divorce but their sealing can’t be undone unless the woman remarries another LDS man? How are they unsealed? What happens when one of the spouses dies? If the husband dies can the woman remarry another LDS man and choose to not be sealed to her new husband? What about if the wife dies and he remarries?

My understanding is that geting unsealed is akin to getting a Catholic annulment.

I am still sealed to my ex-lds wife. I suppose I could request to be unsealed if I believed the sealing had any validity.

 

[taylorf]

Okay, so an LDS couple can have a civil divorce but their sealing can’t be undone unless the woman remarries another LDS man? How are they unsealed? What happens when one of the spouses dies? If the husband dies can the woman remarry another LDS man and choose to not be sealed to her new husband? What about if the wife dies and he remarries?

Invalidating a sealing requires an appeal to the first presidency of the church. Once it’s approved, that’s it. My sister-in-law went through this.

After death or civil divorce a man can remarry in the temple however a woman cannot. She would only be able to enter into a civil marriage.

 

[iepuras]

Okay, so an LDS couple can have a civil divorce but their sealing can’t be undone unless the woman remarries another LDS man? How are they unsealed? What happens when one of the spouses dies? If the husband dies can the woman remarry another LDS man and choose to not be sealed to her new husband? What about if the wife dies and he remarries?

I echo what taylorf says. The First Presidency generally does not cancel marriage sealings unless the woman can be sealed in the temple to another man. From the LDS church’s perspective, the ordinance is important, not necessarily who you are sealed to (if that makes any sense at all).

With my friend’s example, in the eyes of the LDS church, the sealing ordinance is what is important. Theoretically, if she gets into the celestial kingdom she could be “given” to another man as his wife. Or perhaps her ex-husband won’t be so intolerable so that she won’t have a problem actually being married to him in the celestial kingdom.

Getting a cancellation of sealing can be difficult for a woman. I know of women who were sealed in the temple, civily divorced and then remarried to a non-LDS man. Generally, she is not be able to get a cancellation of the sealing because she would not be able to be sealed in the temple to her new husband. It’s quite sad acutally.

A sealing cancellation is kind of like a Catholic annulment, but not really. My understanding is that an annulment tribunal primarily looks into the circumstances surrounding the beginning of the marriage to determine its validity and that the tribunal doesn’t necessarily look at sins committed after the wedding (unless it provides evidence relating validity at the beginning). My understanding is that adultery does not guarantee a declaration of nullity if the marriage was entered into validly. (I don’t really understand the whole annulment process so I could be completely wrong). An LDS cancellation of sealing has more to do with the sins of the parties after the sealing. The LDS sealing cancellations I know of were granted because of adultery or abuse.

 

[NeuroTypical]

I am not wordsmithing If you believe I am, show me where.

Texan, I’d like you to tell me what the word “wordsmithing” means to you. Since I have ended up debating what words mean with you on more than one occasion, and the word doesn’t appear in dictionary.com, I’d like to shoot for a definition we can both share here.

I stated the complete truth. If you do not pay your 10% temple fee, you do not go to the celestial kingdom. That is fact.

“Temple fee”? I’ve been LDS my whole life, and have never heard tithing referred to as a “temple fee”. It sounds so secular. So cold, businesslike, and unjust. One might think you’re making up phrases that sound bad and applying them to my church.

After taking a look at this thread on Catholic tithing, and looking over a website or two like this one, I’m hearing a lot of similarities between Catholic principles of tithing and Mormon. Like how we should pay, even if it’s a sacrifice. Like how we should think about how all is God’s. Like how it’s important to raise our children to pay a generous tithe. Like how blessings come to those who tithe.

Anyway, here is your specific statement from this post that I’m taking issue with:

No matter how worthy you are, if you do not pay your fee (the 10%), you cannot get to the temple. Without the temple, you cannot get to the highest level of heaven. In other words, you must pay your way to heaven.

First, the word “fee” doesn’t belong. Tithing is voluntary.

Second, as you already know, mormons believe in levels of heaven. So “you must pay your way to heaven” is incorrect. Here’s how your claim looks, written out like a logical argument:

1. You must pay tithing to go to the temple.
2. You must go to the temple to get into one of the levels of heaven.
   Conclusion: You must pay your way to heaven.

The conclusion doesn’t follow. Here’s something logically equivalent:

1. You must take a motorcycle class to legally drive a motorcycle on a public road.
2. You must drive a motorcycle to feel the freedom of wind in your hair and bugs in your teeth while holding handlebars.
   Conclusion: You must take a motorcycle class to drive on a public road.

So yeah. Wrong. Not correct. So folks like Try2BeHumble comes along and take your statements as truth, and feel sorry for poor deluded me, even though you’ve misrepresented me and my beliefs.

Did I answer your question?

 

[TexanKnight]

Texan, I’d like you to tell me what the word “wordsmithing” means to you. Since I have ended up debating what words mean with you on more than one occasion, and the word doesn’t appear in dictionary.com, I’d like to shoot for a definition we can both share here.

The way I have seen it used on boards like this is to imply dishonest use of words.

“Temple fee”? I’ve been LDS my whole life, and have never heard tithing referred to as a “temple fee”. It sounds so secular. So cold, businesslike, and unjust. One might think you’re making up phrases that sound bad and applying them to my church.

It is what it is. Without the tithing, one is not worthy to enter the temple no matter what else they do. The LDS Church MUST get its money, or no celestial kingdom. That is the cold hard fact.

After taking a look at this thread on Catholic tithing, and looking over a website or two like this one, I’m hearing a lot of similarities between Catholic principles of tithing and Mormon. Like how we should pay, even if it’s a sacrifice. Like how we should think about how all is God’s. Like how it’s important to raise our children to pay a generous tithe. Like how blessings come to those who tithe.

The difference is, we do not base the ability to attend mandatory places (like a temple) on the payment of a fee. In fact, many of us do not use the envelopes, we place cash so as not to bring attention to ourselves.

Anyway, here is your specific statement from this post that I’m taking issue with:
First, the word “fee” doesn’t belong. Tithing is voluntary.

No, it isn’t. If it was voluntary, it would not be a temple recommend question and you would not be deprived of the temple, and thereby highest level of heaven, by not paying it.

Second, as you already know, mormons believe in levels of heaven. So “you must pay your way to heaven” is incorrect. Here’s how your claim looks, written out like a logical argument:

1. You must pay tithing to go to the temple.
2. You must go to the temple to get into one of the levels of heaven.
   Conclusion: You must pay your way to heaven.

Go back and look, I said highest level of heaven and celestial kingdom. So, again, I have spoken the truth

The conclusion doesn’t follow. Here’s something logically equivalent:

1. You must take a motorcycle class to legally drive a motorcycle on a public road.
2. You must drive a motorcycle to feel the freedom of wind in your hair and bugs in your teeth while holding handlebars.
   Conclusion: You must take a motorcycle class to drive on a public road.

Sadly, one cannot equate driving on a road to eternal life. So your analogy fails mightily. If I cannot afford to drive a road, I only lose a form of transportation. That somehow, in your world, equates to eternal life in the celestial kingdom? Odd.

So yeah. Wrong. Not correct. So folks like Try2BeHumble comes along and take your statements as truth, and feel sorry for poor deluded me, even though you’ve misrepresented me and my beliefs.

Did I answer your question?

Yes. And you are, again, not speaking the exact facts about your church. I have. I have sat thru too many temple recommend meetings and bishopric meetings. Thank you, though, for the chance, once again, to correct you in regard to your church’s teachings.

 

[RebeccaJ]

“Temple fee”? I’ve been LDS my whole life, and have never heard tithing referred to as a “temple fee”. It sounds so secular. So cold, businesslike, and unjust. One might think you’re making up phrases that sound bad and applying them to my church.

Back in the day, we called it “fire insurance”! Whatever you want to call it, that fact is that is required to enter your temples. A required dollar amount, given in exchange for entry, is often called a fee. Like the Park Entry Fee, when I visit Yellowstone Nat’l Park. (Which costs much less than 10% of my income. )

I really have no dog in this race. I paid my pennies of tithing when I was a kid, a lot of the perceived “blessings” seemed superstitious to me. I pay what I want, as a Catholic, to anywhere I want. I don’t have to give 10% to my parish, I can choose how much I give and to whom. I am obligated to support my parish, which I do, but again, I choose how much. I have no expectation of anything in return. Not blessings from God, not donuts after Mass, or anything else. That is what charity is, giving with no expected return.

Obligation in Catholic-world means something that you should do. No one is checking on us to determine if we’ve met our obligation. The Sacrament of Reconciliation exists for us, and makes for a good time to examine one’s conscious. I’ve never heard that not giving an offering is a sin. But hey, I learn something new every day.

 

[iepuras]

It sounds so secular. So cold, businesslike, and unjust.

That’s because it is. Any organization, especially a church, that tells a poor, struggling family to pay tithing (or a fee) to that organization before they feed their children is cold and unjust.

Back in the day, we called it “fire insurance”! Whatever you want to call it, that fact is that is required to enter your temples. A required dollar amount, given in exchange for entry, is often called a fee. Like the Park Entry Fee, when I visit Yellowstone Nat’l Park. (Which costs much less than 10% of my income. )

I really have no dog in this race. I paid my pennies of tithing when I was a kid, a lot of the perceived “blessings” seemed superstitious to me. I pay what I want, as a Catholic, to anywhere I want. I don’t have to give 10% to my parish, I can choose how much I give and to whom. I am obligated to support my parish, which I do, but again, I choose how much. I have no expectation of anything in return. Not blessings from God, not donuts after Mass, or anything else. That is what charity is, giving with no expected return.

Obligation in Catholic-world means something that you should do. No one is checking on us to determine if we’ve met our obligation. The Sacrament of Reconciliation exists for us, and makes for a good time to examine one’s conscious. I’ve never heard that not giving an offering is a sin. But hey, I learn something new every day.

Tithing is still called fire insurance! I paid too much in tithing over the years. I try not to think about it, otherwise I would be furious. Since I stopped paying tithing in the Mormon sense, I have been much more charitable to real charities and non-profits this year, including my parish. It is a nice change to not have that requirement of “worthiness” hanging over me.

 

[LivingWaters7]

I have a few questions about LDS weddings. You mention a lot about temple recommends. What exactly does this mean? Is it like going to premarital counseling in the Catholic church before you get married? What is the purpose of taking off your shoes before you go into the temple?

A temple recommend is basically a card that you have which allows you entrance to the temple. To receive a temple recommend, a Mormon will be interviewed by two of their leaders. They will be asked questions like whether they believe in God, the Restoration, sustain their church leaders, if they keep the Word of Wisdom, tithe, keep their covenants, etc. After this, they receive the temple recommend card. It is presented to a temple worker at a desk in the lobby.

Uh, I’m not sure what is involved with premarital counseling in either church (I’m still a “young single adult”!). I’m pretty sure though that some of my friends in the lds ward that were engaged would attend a “preparing for an eternal marriage” class during the Sunday School hour, taught by a married leader.

When Mormons go to the temple, they change into different clothes, including taking off shoes and either wearing white socks (i.e. for baptisms for the dead), white slippers, or white shoes (shoes seem to be worn more by the temple workers). In addition, they wear white clothing (i.e. a white jumpsuit if doing baptisms, and white shirt, pants, tie, etc (for guys) if doing other things). I guess for the sealing, because we weren’t really participating in it, we only had to take off our shoes. The changing of clothing is done in a locker room inside the temple (one for men, one for women, found in both the baptisms area and the sealing/endowment area).

I have heard from my LDS friend that for the sealing ceremony the bride and groom both kneel down facing each other and behind them are mirrors that are supposed to show their reflection and that they will be together for eternity is this true? She couldn’t attend the wedding so she had to wait outside but this is what someone told her. I think it would be upsetting to not have my parents or friends their to witness my wedding. I find it interesting that LDS members and others would be excluded since LDS is usually very family focused.

Yes, in the sealing, the couple is dressed in ceremonial clothing, kneels at an altar, and takes each other by the hand. There are mirrors behind them that reflect into eternity (I’m sure you can find pics of this online). I’ve actually done proxy sealings a few times (one time, I was late getting to a friend’s Endowment, so I did proxy sealings with a few girls that were also late, and we met the rest of the party in the Celestial Room. Doing proxy sealings was always interesting. We both tried not to look each other in the eyes!).

Yes, if you don’t have a temple recommend, you wait outside (if you come to the temple in the first place). This includes non-LDS and LDS without recommends. As I mentioned, my friend’s sisters and brother were not able to witness his sealing because they were not endowed. It seems as if this is an accepted part of Mormon culture to do this, though I can’t say for sure. There are no pictures of the sealing (there are actually no pictures of any of the ordinances done in the LDS Church). I couldn’t imagine my parents and siblings waiting outside the temple while i got married inside.

 

[zaffiroborant]

I stood outside a temple once waiting for the couple. It’s degrading and I haven’t done it again since. Inviting someone to wait outside the building you are being married in is just rude, IMO. Doing that to your own parent(s) is unimaginable, not to mention disrespectful.

Yes it is rude to invite people to an event and then exclude them from it, using them only as props for photos. It would be far and away more mannered to simply invite those without a recommend to the reception alone. It is a breathtakingly ugly way to treat non-LDS family of the bride or groom particularly in light of the fact that in most other countries the couple will have a wedding that everyone can attend and then be sealed in the temple. Only in the US are converts required to treat their own families in such a shabby manner.