Mormon tithing

[excaliber]

I am interested in the effect, morman tithing has on people.

I personaly don’t like it, because it
sounds harmful with todays economy.

But mabey I misunderstand it?

Is there a way for a mormon to NOT tithe?

Or to give only what they can?

I have friends who are mormon and I feel bad, but I don’t want to offend them by telling them to stop tithing when they don’t have money.

 

[BartBurk]

I am interested in the effect, morman tithing has on people.

I personaly don’t like it, because it
sounds harmful with todays economy.

But mabey I misunderstand it?

Is there a way for a mormon to NOT tithe?

Or to give only what they can?

I have friends who are mormon and I feel bad, but I don’t want to offend them by telling them to stop tithing when they don’t have money.

The original law of Mormon tithing only required that people give 10 percent of what they had leftover after paying all necessary expenses. This is the law followed by those who followed the RLDS Church. Here is a sample tithing account in that Mormon tradition:

theremnantchurch.com/001/Stewardship/AnnualStewardshipRecord.pdf

A Mormon is allowed to send his/her tithing directly to Salt Lake City. They can pay what they feel is a fair surplus and then report they have paid a full tithing to their local bishop without letting him know how much they paid. Salt Lake City does not reveal to the local bishop what has been paid directly to Salt Lake City.

You can also look at this essay:

i4m.com/think/intro/mormon-tithing.htm

 

[nebula]

I am interested in the effect, morman tithing has on people.

I personaly don’t like it, because it
sounds harmful with todays economy.

But mabey I misunderstand it?

Is there a way for a mormon to NOT tithe?

Or to give only what they can?

I have friends who are mormon and I feel bad, but I don’t want to offend them by telling them to stop tithing when they don’t have money.

No, Mormons are commanded to tithe and have faith everything will work out. It’s a prerequisite for holding a temple recommend. I woudln’t tell your Mormon friends that, it probably wouldn’t go over well.

 

[nebula]

The original law of Mormon tithing only required that people give 10 percent of what they had leftover after paying all necessary expenses. This is the law followed by those who followed the RLDS Church. Here is a sample tithing account in that Mormon tradition:

theremnantchurch.com/001/Stewardship/AnnualStewardshipRecord.pdf

A Mormon is allowed to send his/her tithing directly to Salt Lake City. They can pay what they feel is a fair surplus and then report they have paid a full tithing to their local bishop without letting him know how much they paid. Salt Lake City does not reveal to the local bishop what has been paid directly to Salt Lake City.

You can also look at this essay:

i4m.com/think/intro/mormon-tithing.htm

Very interesting Bart. I’m curious to see what Mormons on the board think.

The only ‘adjustments’ I was aware of when I was tithing was whether to do it on net or gross income. I did know some MOrmons who talked about focusing on tithing ‘excess’ but that idea was not usually well received.

 

[BartBurk]

Very interesting Bart. I’m curious to see what Mormons on the board think.

The only ‘adjustments’ I was aware of when I was tithing was whether to do it on net or gross income. I did know some MOrmons who talked about focusing on tithing ‘excess’ but that idea was not usually well received.

I quickly figured what I would owe on the Remnant LDS form and it was about a third of what I would owe under the traditional LDS understanding of paying on your gross income. Of course many working people would simply not have a surplus at all and would pay nothing.

 

[excaliber]

So can I suggest that they send as much as they can to salt lake city directly?

Or is that something that would cause them to be looked down on by there ward?

I think that would solve the problem if I can convince them.

 

[BartBurk]

So can I suggest that they send as much as they can to salt lake city directly?

Or is that something that would cause them to be looked down on by there ward?

I think that would solve the problem if I can convince them.

Here’s some information on how to do it:

nine-moons.com/2007/02/28/pay-your-tithing-directly/

The Mormon Bishop may not appreciate this method of payment, but it is certainly one a local member can use. Rich people do this to keep their income personal. There’s no reason a person with less wealth can’t do the same.

 

[RAR]

I’d like to point out that, even in a difficult economy, we should all be giving 10% unless we are seriously in a grave situation. In fact, I think it might also be worth discussing with your parish priest.

Maybe I still have a job because I’ve been giving my 10%.

I apologize if I misunderstand the intent of the original post - I just feel we too often decide for ourselves that we don’t need to tithe the 10%. It’s no revelation that if we all gave our 10%, Catholic schooling would be free for our kids and a number of other Church services.

RAR

 

[BartBurk]

So can I suggest that they send as much as they can to salt lake city directly?

Or is that something that would cause them to be looked down on by there ward?

I think that would solve the problem if I can convince them.

Here’s some more information:

“The celestial law requires one-tenth part of all a man’s substance which he possesses at the time he comes into the church (See D&C 119:1), and one-tenth part of his annual increase ever after (See D&C 119:4). IF IT REQUIRES ALL MAN CAN EARN TO SUPPORT HIMSELF AND HIS FAMILY, HE IS NOT TITHED AT ALL. The celestial law does not take the mother’s and children’s bread, neither ought else which they really need for their comfort. The poor that have not of this world’s good to spare, but serve and honor God according to the best of their abilities in every other way, shall have a celestial crown in the Eternal Kingdom of our Father.” (The Millenial Star, 1847. Orson Hyde, editor)

The first scriptural definition of what exactly is tithed, was given by Joseph Smith in his inspired translation (“Joseph Smith Translation” or “JST”) of Genesis 14 (about 1830, see D&C 37:1), which included new verses. Verse 39 states: “Wherefore Abram paid unto him tithes of all that he had, of all the riches which he possessed, which God had given him MORE THAN THAT WHICH HE HAD NEED.” (Emphasis added.) Abraham paid tithes on the amount “more than that which he had need”.

Franklin D. Richards explained the meaning of SURPLUS as it appeared in verse 1 of D&C 119:

“I require all their surplus property to be put into the hands of the bishop” Let us consider for a moment this word ‘SURPLUS.’ What does it mean when applied to a man and his property? SURPLUS CANNOT MEAN THAT WHICH IS INDISPENSABLY NECESSARY FOR ANY GIVEN PURPOSE, BUT WHAT REMAINS AFTER SUPPLYING WHAT IS NEEDED FOR THAT PURPOSE. Is not the first and most necessary use of a man’s property that he feed, clothe and provide a home for himself and family! . . . WAS NOT ‘SURPLUS PROPERTY,’ THAT WHICH WAS OVER AND ABOVE A COMFORTABLE AND NECESSARY SUBSTANCE? In the light of what had transpired and of subsequent events, what else could it mean? CAN WE TAKE ANY OTHER VIEW OF IT WHEN WE CONSIDER THE CIRCUMSTANCES UNDER WHICH IT WAS GIVEN IN FAR WEST, IN JULY, 1838? “I have been unable in studying this subject to find any other definition of the term ‘SURPLUS,’ as used in this revelation, than the one I have just given. I find that it was so understood and recorded by the Bishops and people in those days, AS WELL AS BY THE PROPHET JOSEPH HIMSELF, WHO WAS UNQUESTIONABLY THE ABLEST AND BEST EXPONENT OF THIS REVELATION.” (Emphasis added, Franklin D. Richards, Nov. 6, 1882. JD 23:313.)

 

[BartBurk]

I’d like to point out that, even in a difficult economy, we should all be giving 10% unless we are seriously in a grave situation. In fact, I think it might also be worth discussing with your parish priest.

Maybe I still have a job because I’ve been giving my 10%.

I apologize if I misunderstand the intent of the original post - I just feel we too often decide for ourselves that we don’t need to tithe the 10%. It’s no revelation that if we all gave our 10%, Catholic schooling would be free for our kids and a number of other Church services.

RAR

The Catholic Church does not require anyone to give a certain percentage of their income in “tithing.” We are encouraged to support the church according to our ability to do so. Rich people may be able to pay way above 10 percent. Poor people may not be able to pay any of their income.

 

[dianaiad]

I am interested in the effect, morman tithing has on people.

I personaly don’t like it, because it
sounds harmful with todays economy.

How so? Certainly charitable giving is generally a good thing no matter what the economy…

But mabey I misunderstand it?

Is there a way for a mormon to NOT tithe?

Not and keep a Temple Recommend, no.

Or to give only what they can?

I have friends who are mormon and I feel bad, but I don’t want to offend them by telling them to stop tithing when they don’t have money.

If there is no income, then they don’t pay tithing. It’s certainly more fair than what the government demands…and I don’t quite get your problem. I have learned on this board that Catholics are supposed to tithe, as well, yes?

As to whether we pay on ‘gross’ or ‘net,’ …personally, I pay on my ‘gross…’ for my teaching income, because even though I might not see the money in my paycheck, it goes to benefit me personally, not to actually produce the income.

On the other hand, for my part time business, I tithe on the “net,” subtracting those funds that are actually used to produce the income.

That’s tithing, which goes to the church for missionary work, building funds, operating the Temple, teaching…stuff like that. Contributions to the welfare fund are separate.

…and I tithe because it is a commandment. As Catholics understand very well, Christ did not eliminate the law of tithing.

Diana

 

[PaulDupre]

I have learned on this board that Catholics are supposed to tithe, as well, yes?

Yes, we just understand tithing differently than you do. We Catholics tithe on our “increase”, not on our “gross”. In this respect we are much closer to Joseph Smith-style tithing than you are.

God love you,
Paul

 

[RebeccaJ]

Also, tithing can be given in the form of one’s time, in service for the poor, and lay ministries for the Church. So even the poor can tithe without putting their own, or their family’s, welfare at risk.

 

[dianaiad]

Yes, we just understand tithing differently than you do. We Catholics tithe on our “increase”, not on our “gross”. In this respect we are much closer to Joseph Smith-style tithing than you are.

God love you,
Paul

Paul, you didn’t read my post, did you?

I was describing just that: tithing on ‘increase.’ I tithe on the ‘gross’ of my paycheck, because that part that doesn’t come to me in money is still ‘increase.’ That is, it is taxes, social security, pension fund, insurance, union dues, payment for a loan…all moneys that are ultimately for my ‘increase.’

From my business, I pay tithing on the profit: that is, what I have after I have paid for all the supplies and services I need to make that money in the first place.

It is like the old ways; the farmer who pays a tenth of his wheat crop, AFTER he has taken the seed grain away so that he can sow the fields come spring.

 

[dianaiad]

Also, tithing can be given in the form of one’s time, in service for the poor, and lay ministries for the Church. So even the poor can tithe without putting their own, or their family’s, welfare at risk.

That’s a good idea.

Mormons generally give more than 10% of their time as a general rule anyway, though… That just goes along with belonging to a church without a paid clergy (until you get rather high up in the hierarchy, that is).

Those Mormons who are getting church welfare are asked to help out a little more, if they can, but that’s different.

 

[RebeccaJ]

That’s a good idea.

Mormons generally give more than 10% of their time as a general rule anyway, though… That just goes along with belonging to a church without a paid clergy (until you get rather high up in the hierarchy, that is).

Those Mormons who are getting church welfare are asked to help out a little more, if they can, but that’s different.

Yes, I understand this.

It is the same for Catholics, there are many lay ministries. It isn’t like the poor priest can do everything on his own.

 

[BartBurk]

Very interesting Bart. I’m curious to see what Mormons on the board think.

The only ‘adjustments’ I was aware of when I was tithing was whether to do it on net or gross income. I did know some MOrmons who talked about focusing on tithing ‘excess’ but that idea was not usually well received.

I think a lot of Mormons understand the way SLC demands tithing today is different from the way the LDS Church understood tithing in the 19th century. The LDS Church benefits from its revised definition. That’s why they use the current definition. If it used the old definition it couldn’t sustain itself in its current form.

 

[dianaiad]

I think a lot of Mormons understand the way SLC demands tithing today is different from the way the LDS Church understood tithing in the 19th century. The LDS Church benefits from its revised definition. That’s why they use the current definition. If it used the old definition it couldn’t sustain itself in its current form.

In the nineteenth century, as it is today, the matter of tithing and how it is paid was pretty much up to the payer…unless there was something specific that needed to be addressed.

For instance, there were several smaller communities that actually lived the United Order, where everything one had was given to the church, and then apportioned back again according to one’s needs; purest communism. Most of them emploded because of human failing, but one did very well for over 60 years–right up until the feds decided to levy an income tax.

Not to change the topic, but in my opinion that’s the only way communism could ever work; as a small unit within a larger capitalist frame. It has to be absolutely voluntary, and there has to be a way out, in order to be successful.

 

[ChristIsLord]

in mormonism tithing is directly related to ones ability to enter the celestial kingdom. if you don’t tithe 10% of your income you can not enter the temple with a temple recommend, if you can’t be “temple worthy” you can’t go to the celestial kingdom.

think how this flat tithe policy overwhelmingly favors the rich while making it exceedingly difficult for the poor to enter the celestial kingdom.

if a man grossed one million dollars and he tithes 100K he still has 900K to live on, a ton of money. however if another man made only 30K and tithed 3K he only has 27K to live on. if you’re living on 30K a year and raising a family it would be near impossible to come up with 3 grand to tithe appropriately. however if wealthy it would barely even bother you.

maybe god only wants the wealthy in the celestial kingdom???

 

[BartBurk]

in mormonism tithing is directly related to ones ability to enter the celestial kingdom. if you don’t tithe 10% of your income you can not enter the temple with a temple recommend, if you can’t be “temple worthy” you can’t go to the celestial kingdom.

think how this flat tithe policy overwhelmingly favors the rich while making it exceedingly difficult for the poor to enter the celestial kingdom.

if a man grossed one million dollars and he tithes 100K he still has 900K to live on, a ton of money. however if another man made only 30K and tithed 3K he only has 27K to live on. if you’re living on 30K a year and raising a family it would be near impossible to come up with 3 grand to tithe appropriately. however if wealthy it would barely even bother you.

maybe god only wants the wealthy in the celestial kingdom???

I think the Mormon would tell the poor person to pay tithing and if you don’t have enough after paying tithing the church will help you with your bills.