Mormonism and Protestantism

[Miriam1947]

LivingWaters7, as a word of advice, I’d caution you broad stroking the term “Latter-Day Saint” There are other Joseph Smith Restoration groups that also refer to themselves as “Latter-Day Saints” and would not appreciate you saying that “Latter-Day Saints” subscribe to Mormon theology. You never know who is lurking.
(Former member of the Utah Mormon, Re-organized LDS, Church of Jesus Christ Bickertonite, and the Remnant LDS churches)

I am happy to see that you are still a believer. If becoming Lutheran is it for you, great. So many Mormons become agnostic or athiest because they have discovered the untruths that is Mormonism. That is so terribly sad.

 

[LivingWaters7]

Then why do it?

Because those that did not have a chance to accept the Gospel of Jesus Christ in this life will have that chance in the next before the Final Judgement. After death we are judged, however that is not the Final Judgement.

 

[LivingWaters7]

And that is why your church has baptized Blessed John Paul II six times. A Pope.

Obviously the first 5 didn’t work!

Which has nothing to do with the fact that Latter-day Saints believe that proxy ordinances must be accepted in the next life by the deceased before they have any effect.

It’s a joke.

I do not call your sacraments “a joke” (regardless of whether I believe they are efficacious or not) so I hope that you can afford me the same decency.

 

[RebeccaJ]

Because those that did not have a chance to accept the Gospel of Jesus Christ in this life will have that chance in the next before the Final Judgement. After death we are judged, however that is not the Final Judgement.

So, you’re trying to change the Final Judgement.

 

[Jim_Dandy]

Which has nothing to do with the fact that Latter-day Saints believe that proxy ordinances must be accepted in the next life by the deceased before they have any effect.

I do not call your sacraments “a joke” (regardless of whether I believe they are efficacious or not) so I hope that you can afford me the same decency.

You call our entire Holy Religion an abomination, a product of the devil, a harlot, and accuse our Church of having destroyed the “plain and precious” parts of the Bible – the list goes on.

 

[batman1973]

I am happy to see that you are still a believer. If becoming Lutheran is it for you, great. So many Mormons become agnostic or athiest because they have discovered the untruths that is Mormonism. That is so terribly sad.

To tell you the truth, it was hard. Once you realize that you’d been played for a sucker, it’s hard to take anything spiritual seriously. I’m glad that God brought me through not just one mormon faith, but 3 different factions. (I’m a slow learner I guess)

 

[nevadairenaeus]

I am happy to see that you are still a believer. If becoming Lutheran is it for you, great. So many Mormons become agnostic or athiest because they have discovered the untruths that is Mormonism. That is so terribly sad.

Alas, that’s all too true. The exmormon discussion boards are full of atheists and hostility to religion. I’ve interacted with quite a few of them. Not too many seem interested in hearing anything positive about religion, especially not about Catholicism. They read a book by bart ehrman or richard dawkins and suddenly they know everything about christian history or the relationship between science and faith. But I really can’t blame them too much given their experience with religion.

 

[TheExorcist]

Alas, that’s all too true. The exmormon discussion boards are full of atheists and hostility to religion. I’ve interacted with quite a few of them. Not too many seem interested in hearing anything positive about religion, especially not about Catholicism. They read a book by bart ehrman or richard dawkins and suddenly they know everything about christian history or the relationship between science and faith. But I really can’t blame them too much given their experience with religion.

Although there is NO better place to go then the good old RfM board when you are REALLY mad at the church on a certain day or week…its not very constructive but in some ways it feels cathartic. Then I can come back on here for my spirituality fix.

 

[LivingWaters7]

That is the Catholic/LDS language difference, AS WELL as a very competent and knowledgeable debater whose native language is not English. Sheesh!!

Catholic baptism is for the removal of the stain of Original Sin. Mormons do not believe in original sin.

Catholic Baptism and Mormon baptism are vastly different from each other.

Mormon baptism is for the forgiveness of sin. Sorry, I was wrong.
WE do have a very fundamental language difference here.

A Mormon could equate the Sacrament of Reconciliation with baptism. Be best to do baptism for the dead, since by then the person is not going to sin anymore. Why do you baptize the living, who are going to sin again? Is there any forgiveness for a Mormon, once they have been baptized? After all, we all have sinful natures.

Latter-day Saints believe that baptism is for the remission of sins. We also believe that through baptism one enters into a covenant with God, takes upon themselves the name of Jesus Christ, and is necessary to become a member of The Church of Jesus Christ. We believe that in the ordinance of the Sacrament (i.e. Communion), we renew our baptismal covenants. Also, Latter-day Saints are called to repent before partaking of the Sacrament, and are also called to repentance whenever necessary. For serious sins, the Latter-day Saint confesses to their bishop, who can guide them through repentance and restitution.

 

[LivingWaters7]

So, you’re trying to change the Final Judgement.

Since the Final Judgement has not occurred yet for anyone, there is nothing to change. We offer, just like in this life, the opportunity for someone to accept or reject the Gospel of Jesus Christ and His Kingdom. God knows what we will do, whether in this life or the next.

 

[batman1973]

Latter-day Saints believe that baptism is for the remission of sins. We also believe that through baptism one enters into a covenant with God, takes upon themselves the name of Jesus Christ, and is necessary to become a member of The Church of Jesus Christ. We believe that in the ordinance of the Sacrament (i.e. Communion), we renew our baptismal covenants. Also, Latter-day Saints are called to repent before partaking of the Sacrament, and are also called to repentance whenever necessary. For serious sins, the Latter-day Saint confesses to their bishop, who can guide them through repentance and restitution.

Wow. There he goes again. Either he cant read, or he doesnt care. Hate to tell you, you’re not the only one who group uses Latter Day Saint! Stop misrepresenting others. Oh, wait. Mormons do that any way. My bad. I’ll be quiet then.

 

[truthsave]

Wow. There he goes again. Either he cant read, or he doesnt care. Hate to tell you, you’re not the only one who group uses Latter Day Saint! Stop misrepresenting others. Oh, wait. Mormons do that any way. My bad. I’ll be quiet then.

Apparently the only way to become and stay mormon is this.
I don’t think they, mormons are found of their faith. If would be the fait in Christ they would find in Christianity. They defend a culture. Mormal codes, that I like too, but these last should not be confused with religion or faith.
You can be a good man believing just in human respect and an extremely bad men, the worst of the sinner but having faith on Christ. This last man actions are regrettable and detested by all society, but he is in a struggle, he is in a fight. He cannot resist doing what he does, but he does, he would like to do differently but his proposal turn wrong in reality, “The desire to do good is inside of me, but I can’t do it.” (Romans 7:18)
But he does his best, but his best doesn’t work. He pray, but he doesn’t completely realize or can accept that: So then, it doesn’t depend on a person’s desire or effort. It depends entirely on God, who shows mercy. So then, God has mercy on whomever he wants to, but he makes resistant whomever he wants to. (Romans 9:16 - 18)

The Christians by heart know this, and they accept to endure the difficulty of living togheter with this kind of people that have faith but that their faith still didn’t changed their actions for Lor The Christian by minds…they accept conceptually this individuals but in reality is much, much different. They go to the point of considering capital punishement.

So it is welcome more deeply a clean chrstianity by mind, that doesn’t get dirty and sterilize Christ message for their own (personal, material, emotional, social…) well being.

Mormon in the need of giustifying their attitude, their personal human needs of respect, family values and so on, changed Christ message to one that goes human way since Christ message is divine not human. Christ didn’t come to show you what you feel important for you is really important, but absolutely the contrary. And it is completely useless I use example of it since the NT is full of His statement and words, and not wanting to see it is being perverse.

Mormon defend a culture they call faith. Mormon defend feelings and emotions and values they call faith.
If they don’t understand what they do and why they do it, they appear to meny of us as creator of confusion. But their faith is based on the same confusion. An emotive one, a moving one but a confusion.
There can be a lie, a moving lie, and a truth to which we feel something strange, a mixture of yes or no, but certeinly neither moving or emotive in its response arousal.

Which one do you think mormons would accept as being the truth?
What we feel to be our truth, that keep our interiour and exteriour “precious world” preserved is rarely the truth.
And Christ pointed this out many, many times…

 

[James_Least]

We continue to belabor the fine points of false religion. Joseph Smith Jr. is either a false prophet or a true prophet. If true, we should all be Mormon. They have the Gospel Restored. If false, everything since Joseph Smith Jr. is necessarily false. It matters not who may have reformed his prophesies. Falsehoods, regardless of restoration and reformation are still reformed lies built on lies. “A little leaven leavens the whole lump”.

We have difficulty with authenticity and verity. It is possible to be authentic and false.

Peace,

James Least

 

[Jerusha]

Yes, James, the Book of Mormon, the cornerstone of their faith, is a fraud. This has been proven many times. It is not even good literature, like the Bible. So they go on, arguing about other things. The LDS church is a money-making machine for the higherups, and they don’t want to let go of that.

Also, Latter-day Saints are called to repent before partaking of the Sacrament, and are also called to repentance whenever necessary. For serious sins, the Latter-day Saint confesses to their bishop, who can guide them through repentance and restitution.

They rarely go in voluntarily, they are called in for a “worthiness interview.” The bishop is not professionally trained in such matters. Often, the confidentiality of such an interview is not respected. Despite the fact that they confess their sins, they can have their TR cancelled, as a sign that God does not forgive them, and neither does the bishop. Perhaps we need to make comparisons between the worthiness interview and the Sacrament of Reconciliation.

 

[Janderich]

We continue to belabor the fine points of false religion. Joseph Smith Jr. is either a false prophet or a true prophet. If true, we should all be Mormon. They have the Gospel Restored. If false, everything since Joseph Smith Jr. is necessarily false. It matters not who may have reformed his prophesies. Falsehoods, regardless of restoration and reformation are still reformed lies built on lies. “A little leaven leavens the whole lump”.

We have difficulty with authenticity and verity. It is possible to be authentic and false.

Peace,

James Least

James,
I can appreciate this stance. Indeed it is true. Either Joseph Smith was called of God or he was not. Either he had the First Vision or he did not. Either he is a prophet of God or one of the greatest liars in the world. He leaves very little room to believe anything else. For example he says:

I had actually seen a light, and in the midst of that light I saw two Personages, and they did in reality speak to me; and though I was hated and persecuted for saying that I had seen a vision, yet it was true; and while they were persecuting me, reviling me, and speaking all manner of evil against me falsely for so saying, I was led to say in my heart: Why persecute me for telling the truth? I have actually seen a vision; and who am I that I can withstand God, or why does the world think to make me deny what I have actually seen? For I had seen a vision; I knew it, and I knew that God knew it, and I could not deny it, neither dared I do it; at least I knew that by so doing I would offend God, and come under condemnation.

Now, if he is a charlatan and a liar than I would expect people of religion to either not care or kindly point such things out. However, with some it is quite the opposite. Joseph once marveled at this very thing:

During the space of time which intervened between the time I had the vision and the year eighteen hundred and twenty-three—having been forbidden to join any of the religious sects of the day, and being of very tender years, and persecuted by those who ought to have been my friends and to have treated me kindly, and if they supposed me to be deluded to have endeavored in a proper and affectionate manner to have reclaimed me…

To what end then is this anger. What is the point?

 

[Jerusha]

Now, if he is a charlatan and a liar than I would expect people of religion to either not care or kindly point such things out.

Your generalization is inaccurate. Many politely point out the evidence. There is anger on both sides. For many years I did not care, until I realized that Mormons assumed that I was bigoted against them, and they then acted out of their paranoia. Where does THAT come from?

 

[Stephen168]

Latter-day Saint Christians believe that Jesus Christ is The Creator of the Universe. We reject creation ex-nihilo, however we believe that Christ created everything (I already answered your repeated question of what did Christ create with “everything” before) in existence from pre-existing matter.

No, you said God created everything. Now you are saying Christ created everything. It seems that you have at least two creators, so neither can be THE creator, but only A creator.

It seems that “pre-existent” is another word (like philosophy and apostasy) thrown around by Mormons which they haven’t really thought about. When something “pre-exists” it does not yet exist. So there is no such thing as pre-existent matter. What you seem to be saying is that matter has always existed and there is NO creator. This does give me some insight on why it seems that most mormons first fall into atheism upon discovering the fraud of Joseph Smith.

 

[truthsave]

No, you said God created everything. Now you are saying Christ created everything. It seems that you have at least two creators, so neither can be THE creator, but only A creator.

It seems that “pre-existent” is another word (like philosophy and apostasy) thrown around by Mormons which they haven’t really thought about. When something “pre-exists” it does not yet exist. So there is no such thing as pre-existent matter. What you seem to be saying is that matter has always existed and there is NO creator. This does give me some insight on why it seems that most mormons first fall into atheism upon discovering the fraud of Joseph Smith.

I love Hinduiste, Buddists, Taoists and others and their theology.
The problem I personally have with mormons and I guess many of us here and not is not what they believe and who they are and how they behave, and it is incredible they don’t understand this. The problem is like somebody would state that he is married also with my wife, then I say no, is not like this, but he insists saying her name and that he also has some children with her. And I tell him no, she is not the same woman, but he insists…then we asked each one what she does and how she behave and what she did and we realize we are not talking about the same woman but he keep on insisting on the case and pointing out that is me the problem because he had a revelation his one is the real her.
I could leave he alone and don’t make a problem and respec his altered view of things if he would keep it personal. If not sooner or later there could be some legal problem out of this confusion and later on nobody would be able to recognize who of us was really married with that lady.
With other religions and theologies the starting point his different but at the end we realize our love for our wife is the same and so similar that the receiver of our love even she has a different name, aspect and so on, when we talk about her we realize we just talk about our love for a woman for who we have engageded to spend our live with.
It is like we talk about our loveand not of different women.
It is extremely different.

 

[twopekinguys]

Because those that did not have a chance to accept the Gospel of Jesus Christ in this life will have that chance in the next before the Final Judgement. After death we are judged, however that is not the Final Judgement.

But yet, your church ignores those that have obviously rejected the mormon gospel.

Again, Holocaust Victims, Fr. Damien, Blessed JPII, and the list goes on and on.
(which you ignored from a previous post)

Again, it is mormon speak. The whole world uses one definition, but mormons decide that their new interpetation of a word(s) is the right one.

There are none so blind as those who will not see.

 

[TexanKnight]

James,
I can appreciate this stance. Indeed it is true. Either Joseph Smith was called of God or he was not. Either he had the First Vision or he did not. Either he is a prophet of God or one of the greatest liars in the world. He leaves very little room to believe anything else. For example he says:

Now, if he is a charlatan and a liar than I would expect people of religion to either not care or kindly point such things out. However, with some it is quite the opposite. Joseph once marveled at this very thing: To what end then is this anger. What is the point?

There is no anger.

If grass continues to grow, I do not get angry that I must continually mow it.

Y’all keep posting. I do not get angry that I must continually refute your posts with truth.

Be Blessed