Mormonism...Christian or Cult?

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BJ Colbert:
Thank you gryskull, Now I know, I guess you can tell I am not a student of scripture. I actually was out of the Church for 20 years, so have only been back for a short 6 years. I did not know where the story of creation came from, except in Genesis. This just enhances and expounds on Genesis. Thank You!
BJ 👍
BJ,
I think you totally missed my point. The book of Abraham just proves your doctrine of God living in another planet and I think it even mentions the name of the planet…KOLOB. I wished for you to read and post it here that others may know. Will you post the exact verse I gave you (Book of Abraham 3:15-22)?
 
BJ Colbert:
Thank you gryskull, Now I know, I guess you can tell I am not a student of scripture. I actually was out of the Church for 20 years, so have only been back for a short 6 years. I did not know where the story of creation came from, except in Genesis. This just enhances and expounds on Genesis. Thank You!
BJ 👍
BJ,
I think you totally missed my point. The book of Abraham just proves your doctrine of God living in another planet and I think it even mentions the name of the planet…KOLOB. I wished for you to read and post it here that others may know. Will you post the exact verse I gave you?
 
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gryskull:
BJ,
I think you totally missed my point. The book of Abraham just proves your doctrine of God living in another planet and I think it even mentions the name of the planet…KOLOB. I wished for you to read and post it here that others may know. Will you post the exact verse I gave you (Book of Abraham 3:15-22)?
Let me guess: Joseph Smith discovered the “Book of Abraham?” Because it isn’t in any canon of Scripture I’VE ever read.
 
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gryskull:
Are mormons considered christians
By websters dictionary yes. By the book of St. John Chapter 3 in Scripture NO! (Being Baptized in the name of the Trinity makes one a Christian by Scripture)
or a cult?
Yes. They shun those who leave their cult and use this pressure to keep members in thier cult.
 
Mom of 5:
BDawg,
You have Never read anything anti-Catholic??? Your religion is based on rejecting the Catholic church. You wouldn’t have a religion if it were not for ours!!!

Yes, your church is hard to leave…my husband was bombarded for several years until he simply wrote his letter and told them not to contact him again. He got a letter back saying that they would not contact him “for now”. They have started again even though most know that he is Catholic.

When Catholics “leave” the church, they can return anytime they want. Go to the priest, recieve sacrament of penance, NO re-baptism or re-confirmation.

My Catholic husband, had a really difficult time returning after divorce, he was told his sins were never to be forgiven. Fortunately after 3 years we found a priest who had us pay $150.00 and send some paperwork to a Tribunal, who called and asked some questions and then sent a retired priest to our home. He had to take several smoking breaks but eventually got to the point of forgiving my husband by having him say a bunch of Hail Marys and Glory Bees. Finally after 25 years of being divorced from his first wife he can take communion again and also confession. No, he did not have to be re-baptized, he just had to find the right priest to forgive him. 5 priests told him he had better have someone nearby when he was dying to call a priest for death bed repentance, as that was the only way for him to be forgiven.
Obviously money talks, also, I think the fact that he was molested and raped in the Catholic orphanage when he was a small boy age 6 and throughout his childhood with Catholic foster homes, might have had something to do with them forgiving him. My husband suffered greatly over this and the divorce was not his fault.
What do you think? Do you think this sounds easy to get back in the good graces of the Catholic Church?
😦
I kind of have a tendancy to get carried away like you do when defending my faith. Please don’t feel attacked, I understand you are only trying to tell the truth as you know it. Obviously you have come in contact with some very tenacious LDS. Please show them your post and you will never hear from them again. Your husband should have gone to his Bishop or Stake president and asked to be excommunicated, then they will never contact him.
I know, because I wanted them to contact me and they didn’t for 20 years. I had to go to them when I was ready to come back.

Oh for the Kolob guy, the scripture you reference, says Kolob is a star very near where God is, it does not say He lives there. I am not going to write out all of those verses, as I don’t have time. They are located in the Pearl of Great Price, the book of Abraham and you have told the verses, so you write them out if you want to.
The Pearl of Great Price is one of the four standard works of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latterday Saints, and we believe the book of Abraham is a translation of some ancient records that had come from the catacombs of Egypt and are the writings of Abraham while he was in Egypt, called the Book of Abraham, written by his own hand, upon papyrus. That is all I know personally about Kolob.

Just more fodder for you to joke about, but think how you feel when someone says you worship Mary, or something worse? And you know it is not true and you love God so much, and no one believes you do, they keep telling you that you don’t. It is very painful and frustrating to be told over and over that you are not Christian when you know you are.
So with all of that, I will just say believe in whatever you think will get you to Heaven, be it Jesus Christ, Mohammed, Budha or Mary. I know that my Savior is Jesus Christ, and none other.

🙂 BJ
 
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gryskull:
BJ,
I think you totally missed my point. The book of Abraham just proves your doctrine of God living in another planet and I think it even mentions the name of the planet…KOLOB. I wished for you to read and post it here that others may know. Will you post the exact verse I gave you (Book of Abraham 3:15-22)?
OK you win gryskull, Here it is Abraham speaking…
verse 15 And the Lord said unto me; Abraham, I show these things unto thee before ye go into Egypt, that ye may declare all these words.
16 If two things exist, and there be one above the other, there shall be greater things above them; therefore Kolob is the greatest of all the kokaubeam(stars) that thou hast seen, because it is nearest unto me. 17 Now, if there be two things, one above the other, and the moon be above the earth, then it may be that a planet or a star may exist above it; and there is nothing that the Lord thy God shall take in his heart to do but what he will do it.
18. Howbeit that he made the greater star;as also, if there be two spirits, and one shall be more intelligent than the other, yet these two spirits, notwithstanding one is more intelligent than the other have no beginning; they existed before, they shall have no end, they shall exist after, for they are eternal.
19. And the Lord said unto me; these two facts do exist, that there are two spirits, one being more intelligent than the other; there shall be another more intelligent than they; I am the Lord thy God, I am more intelligent that they all.
20 The Lord thy God sent his angel to deliver thee from the hands of the priest of Elkenah. 21 . I dwell in the midst of them all; Inow, there fore have come down unto thee to declare unto thee the "works which my hands have made wherein my wisdome excelleth them all, for I rule in the heavens above and in the earth beneath, in all wisdom and prudence, over all the intelligences thine eyes have seen from the beginning; I came down in the beginning in the midst of all the intelligences thou hast seen.22. Now the Lord had shown unto me Abraham, the intelligences that were organized before the world was; and among all these there were many of the noble and great ones. 23 And God saw these souls that they were good, and he stood in the midst of them, and he said ; These I will make my rulers: for he stood among thse that were spirits, and he saw that they were good; and he said unto me;Abraham, thou art one of them;thou was chosen before thou wast born. It goes on to tell of the creation in chapter 4,

You know how God likes to repeat things…and heaven knows we need it, as we have a hard time remembering all he has taught us.

This part was the one you wanted to hear, but it isn’t the most important or most interesting part of the book.

🙂 Happy now? My poor fingers are tired…
BJ
 
BJ Colbert:
…The Catholics in this forum are pretty sure that Mormons are a cult and definitely not Christian in any way. They think we all came from some weird planet and believe in millions of Gods, and there is nothing that will convince them otherwise…

BJ 🙂
BJ,
I didn’t have any intentions of hurting you or anybody else in this forum. I wanted you to post those verses to prove that what you said in your first posting about catholics believing that, and I quote “They think we all came from some weird planet and believe in millions of Gods…”, is unfounded. What we believe about your belief is actually true based on your own scripture. Far from what others think about Catholics worshiping Mary. You can tell me what you think about our doctrine of Mary and compare it with what the official documents of our church really say about her.
 
It seems here that the general belief is that a “Christian” is a “follower of Christ” and/or one who believes Christ to be their “Lord and Saviour”. It also seems that people believe this as long as the person claiming to be a Christian believes in following Christ a certain way . Because someone follows Christ differently than WE would makes them no less a Christian. BTW, there is no need to teach me what the Mormons believe - I have close family members who are members of the LDS church…

Karen Anne
 
Karen Anne:
It seems here that the general belief is that a “Christian” is a “follower of Christ” and/or one who believes Christ to be their “Lord and Saviour”. It also seems that people believe this as long as the person claiming to be a Christian believes in following Christ a certain way . Because someone follows Christ differently than WE would makes them no less a Christian. BTW, there is no need to teach me what the Mormons believe - I have close family members who are members of the LDS church…

Karen Anne
Who is?
 
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gryskull:
Are mormons considered christians or a cult? Why?
Q. Are Mormons generally regarded as Christians, and how do their beliefs differ from those of the Missouri Synod?

A. The Lutheran Church–Missouri Synod, together with the vast majority of Christian denominations in the United States, does not regard the Mormon church as a Christian church. That is because the official writings of Mormonism deny fundamental teachings of orthodox Christianity. For example, the Nicene Creed confesses the clear biblical truth that Jesus Christ, the second Person of the Trinity, is “of one substance with the Father.” This central article of the Christian faith is expressly rejected by Mormon teaching – thus undermining the very heart of the scriptural Gospel itself. In a chapter titled “Jesus Christ, the Son of God: Are Mormons Christian?” the president of Brigham Young University (Rex Lee, What Do Mormons Believe? [Salt Lake City: Deseret Book, 1992] summarizes Mormon teaching by stating that the three persons of the Trinity are “not… one being” (21), but are “separate individuals.” In addition, the Father is regarded as having a body “of flesh and bone” (22). Such teaching is contrary to the Holy Scriptures, destructive to the Gospel of Jesus Christ, and indicative of the fact that Mormon teaching is not Christian.

lcms.org/pages/internal.asp?NavID=2239
 
Delegates to the United Methodists’ national convention meeting in Cleveland on Wednesday said the LDS Church “does not fit within the bounds of the historic, apostolic tradition of Christian faith,” and that Mormons who convert to Methodism need to be re-baptized.

The convention approved a study document written by two Salt Lake City ministers, the Rev. Brian Hare-Diggs of First United Methodist Church and the Rev. Jennifer Hare-Diggs of Centenary United Methodist Church.

The nine-page paper, passed by the Methodist General Conference without floor discussion, spells out theological differences between The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and the United Methodist Church.

It says Mormonism has “some radically differing doctrine on such matters of belief as the nature and being of God; the nature, origin, and purpose of Jesus Christ; and the nature and way of salvation.”

The Methodists said Mormonism incorporates a “gendered, married and procreating god” with “a body of flesh and bones,” and has a theology that “more closely resembles a tri-theistic or possibly a polytheistic faith” than monotheism – worship of the one God.

The Methodists also objected that “the Jesus of Mormonism is not co-eternal with the Father and of one substance with the Father” and that Mormons add other scriptures to the Bible.

The Presbyterian Church (USA) and Southern Baptist Convention have issued similar assessments of Mormon doctrine.

apologeticsindex.org/m04.html
 
RonWI said:
Delegates to the United Methodists’ national convention meeting in Cleveland on Wednesday said the LDS Church “does not fit within the bounds of the historic, apostolic tradition of Christian faith,” and that Mormons who convert to Methodism need to be re-baptized…

This is the most impressive thing I’ve seen come from the Methodist church! Now, if only they’d stop reinstating lesbian ministers…
 
BJ Colbert:
I’m sorry Tkdnick, when I wrote that I had just read another thread where someone said we came from Kolob and there were millions of planets and gods spinning around the universe and we were all going to be gods someday, and I just get so tired of that rigamarole. I had to throw that in, so the originator of this thread would be prepared for that kind of response. It never came, so I was wrong to say that, and it was not meant for you or any of the other fair and balanced Catholics here. I really have enjoyed this thread and the comments of Tmaque and BDawg, and others. I know it is difficult not to lose patience when someone does not understand what is being explained. As you see by my other comment, I do not understand the Godhead, as the Catholics believe, but BDawg explained it and I still don’t understand it. That is just me, I am very dense sometimes about certain things.
👍 BJ
Not to be offensive, but wow, either the LDS church has really succeeded in an amazing about-face that even its members are unaware of, or you are ignoring church history.

I am not being in the least dishonest or combative when I say that, as a member of the church for almost 10 years, I and my family were taught about the eternal progression. This was so well-understood in Utah that most people could correctly finish the quote “As man is…” When did the church decide to disavow that concept, and to deny Kobol? So far, I have brought this up, quite civilly, in several threads, and been utterly ignored.

Methinks I will have to dig up my pre-Hinckley BOM. Assuming it can still be found amidst the pile of boxes dragged cross-country 15 years ago. 😃
 
And just for the record, I do not agree that Mormons belong to a cult. Whether they are Christian or not is foggy - I’ll let the Lord sort that one out!

I still have friends and family in Utah who are Mormons, and my mother-in-law was buried with her temple garments. I find it difficult to believe that she is not with Him today. His mercy is surely greater than my understanding.
 
Joseph Smith was a “seer” in his youth. He could find buried treasure using his special “seeing stone”.

Joseph Smith was visted by God the Father and/or the Son in his youth - they told him that all churchs were corrupt.

Joseph Smith found some gold plates with the history of the ancient people of America inscribed on them. He found them in a cave in a hill after being pointed to it by an angel Moroni - the cave was later sealed up and no one else could find it.

No one could look on these gold plates and live except Joseph Smith.

Joseph could only interpret them with his special spectacles that an angel gave him.

The plates recorded how Jesus visited the Ancient Americans (Hebrews - not native Indians) after his resurrection.

The angel eventually took the gold plates back. Sadly they are no longer available to us.

Joseph Smith in later life was shown an ancient egyptian manuscript that was being exhibited in a travelling show and immediately he recognised it as being written by Moses himself. This manuscript he later translated and it became “The Pearl of Great Price”.

God the Father lives on a planet called Kolob with his wife.

Jesus was married.

We can all be Gods like God (in the same sense). We can all get our own universe where we become God the Father like God our Father.

This process repeats eternally.

You can only go on to become a God if you are married. Jesus was married of course.

Adam is actually God our Father. God had a father and mother. And that God had a father and mother, and so on.

Joseph Smith wrote his own version of the bible (with extra bits).

Joseph Smith was one of the most interesting human beings who ever lived.

He was also a complete charlatan.

I recommend “No Man Knows My History” by Fawn M Brodie. Its a great book.

Are Mormons Christians?
 
I’ll tell you something scary, after all that;
A woman I once worked with, who had been a mormon all her life and even did a mission (unusual for the women, I think) told me, quite seriously, “there is very little difference between us mormons and you Catholics.”
How can a mormon say that unless he/she knows little about their own religion (which cannot be in this case) or knows next to nothing about The Catholic Church?
I would have engaged her in conversation on the subject but was in R.C.I.A. at the time and did not feel sufficiently able to do so.
 
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RonWI:
I’m married. Can my universe be Grand Cayman Island?
I LOVE Grand Cayman! You can have the east side of the Island, I want North Sound and Seven Mile Beach. You can have Hell. :rotfl:
 
ultimately, only God knows who goes to hell. but, objectively, we can say that all mormons are in a severely deprived state. Jesus told his disciples to
“Go into the whole world and proclaim the gospel to every creature. Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved; and whoever does not believe will be condemned.”
clearly, baptism and belief is critical to our salvation. but not any belief, or any baptism. that gospel was preached by the apostles, men chosen and ordained by Christ himself. this tells us that Christ intended all to be saved through his church.

mormons, protestants, hindus, budhists, and muslim faiths all may contain some elements of truth, some more then others, which can lead one to salvation. but because they contradict each other, they do not preach the same gospel or the same baptism.

mormons by all historical evidence do not preach the same gospel, nor do they practice the same baptism as the apostles. therefore, being a faithful mormon isn’t sufficient for salvation. if mormons get into heaven, it must be from extraordinary grace working outside of the sacraments as their church is totally deficient. this is why all mormons are in a dangerously deprived state.
 
How does labeling LDS as non-Christian help us as Catholics? It doesn’t. Do you think LDS think they are not Christian? On the contrary, they think they demonstrate true Christianity better than any other group. They love Christ and are devoted to him. All this sort of labeling does is to create a distance between us and them as children of God. It’s absolutely pointless and plays to the very worst part of human nature. It makes us feel self-righteous and indignant toward others. We should instead focus on demonstrating our Christianity rather than simply telling others they are wrong by labeling them non-Christian. How do you feel when some evangelical says the Catholic Church is a cult? All that does is make it harder for them to reach you. So, why do we as Catholics insist on doing the same sort of thing to LDS? All that does is drive them further away from the Church. And to drive someone further from the Church is just about the most Un-Christian thing we can do.
 
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