Mormonism...Christian or Cult?

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BJ Colbert:
I’m sorry Tkdnick, when I wrote that I had just read another thread where someone said we came from Kolob and there were millions of planets and gods spinning around the universe and we were all going to be gods someday, and I just get so tired of that rigamarole. I had to throw that in, so the originator of this thread would be prepared for that kind of response. It never came, so I was wrong to say that, and it was not meant for you or any of the other fair and balanced Catholics here. I really have enjoyed this thread and the comments of Tmaque and BDawg, and others. I know it is difficult not to lose patience when someone does not understand what is being explained. As you see by my other comment, I do not understand the Godhead, as the Catholics believe, but BDawg explained it and I still don’t understand it. That is just me, I am very dense sometimes about certain things.
👍 BJ
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Bj,

I might have the wrong impression as well. How do LDS see the afterlife? I had always heard that the purpose for the Celestial Family was to populate a planet that is received at the time Moroni blows his trumpet from atop the temple. I’m truly curious, not trying to be insulting…

SG
 
Seeks God:
I might have the wrong impression as well. How do LDS see the afterlife? I had always heard that the purpose for the Celestial Family was to populate a planet that is received at the time Moroni blows his trumpet from atop the temple. I’m truly curious, not trying to be insulting…
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Hi SG,

I don’t know where you go the thing about Moroni blowing his trumpet. Whoever made that up WAS trying to be insulting. Anyway, here’s how I understand it:
  1. Those who prove faithful to God will be made into “gods,” meaning that we will be completely One with God, as Jesus said in John 17, and “heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ” as it says in Romans 8.
  2. Yes, we believe that marriage is meant for eternity, and those who are exalted as gods will be involved in the creation of spirits. We don’t have any doctrine about how spirits are created, though.
  3. We also have no doctrine about “having your own planet.” Our scriptures say that God has created “worlds without number.” We have no doctrine about how many worlds we wil be involved with, or if there can be multiple universes, as the physicists are saying nowadays, or what. We just know that we will be ONE with God, and doing the kinds of things He does.
  4. The Book of Abraham does say that there is a star called “Kolob” that is near the throne of God. “Qlb” is an ancient near eastern word meaning “heart,” and was used to describe certain stars anciently. Some people are always talking about how Mormons believe God is “an extra-terrestrial from the planet Kolob,” which is the kind of thing I think BJ was talking about.
  5. We do not believe that will be “saved by works,” as some of you seem to believe. In fact, our doctrine of the relationship between faith, grace, and works is very similar to that in Catholicism.
The problems with how our beliefs about this kind of thing are often described by others are that 1) they are always given in the most unflattering terms, 2) exaggerated to sound weirder than they are, and 3) every speculation that anyone has ever made that is not “official doctrine” magically becomes our settled belief.

BDawg
 
BJ Colbert:
I’m sorry Tkdnick, when I wrote that I had just read another thread where someone said we came from Kolob and there were millions of planets and gods spinning around the universe and we were all going to be gods someday, and I just get so tired of that rigamarole. I had to throw that in, so the originator of this thread would be prepared for that kind of response. It never came, so I was wrong to say that, and it was not meant for you or any of the other fair and balanced Catholics here. I really have enjoyed this thread and the comments of Tmaque and BDawg, and others. I know it is difficult not to lose patience when someone does not understand what is being explained. As you see by my other comment, I do not understand the Godhead, as the Catholics believe, but BDawg explained it and I still don’t understand it. That is just me, I am very dense sometimes about certain things.
👍 BJ
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Believe me, I know how hard it is to try and explain your religion to those who don’t agree. It’s even harder to explain it to those who are “hostile” to it or truly don’t understand it. It’s REALLY frustrating sometimes, and as we all know, I have had my share of “uncharitable” explosions.

As for Kolob…I have heard that the LDS believe God the father lives on Kolob and that He rules the universe (solar system, planet, insert your “area of rule”) from there. Is this not LDS teaching?
 
BDawg,

So, excluding “receiving a planet from Moroni”, you are saying that “Good” Mormon’s who are married will live like God by creating Spirits and ruling over a planet like God?? Explain that more…explain how you become ‘gods’ like God, but not like God. This is really a confusing concept to me - by being a good Mormon, you become a god and can ‘create’ spirits - just like God?

SG
 
BJ Colbert:
The Catholics in this forum are pretty sure that Mormons are a cult and definitely not Christian in any way.
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I don’t think LDS is a cult.:confused: The Mormons I know are free to leave, they think and act like normal people, etc.

I would never say they are definitely not Christian in any way!!! Have you ever heard the phrase “the Christian thing to do”? They do lots of those things. I would say they seem to not believe in the Trinity like we do, however.
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BDawg:
  1. We do not believe that will be “saved by works,” as some of you seem to believe. In fact, our doctrine of the relationship between faith, grace, and works is very similar to that in Catholicism.
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This I find odd. I have been slammed by LDS for saying things like a person near the end of their life could turn to Jesus and be saved, even though they have done many bad things previously in their life. I was astonished when it happened, actually, but there it is. I was dismissed and told I was just saying stuff like that because I am a “Catholic”. So, what is the real scoop? (the issue was not Jesus, but the possibility of a late in life conversion).
 
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BDawg:
Hi Jim,

I understand that you don’t agree with many of our doctrines, but here is one reason LDS object to being labeled “non-Christian” by others. That is, often people just say “Mormons are not Christians,” and don’t elaborate on what they mean by that. People come away thinking that our religion is some sort of weird Hindu sect like the Hare Krishnas, or something. We feel like some people are spreading misinformation about us. What do you think about my suggestion that you say Mormons are “heretical Christians” or something like that. Would that be acceptable to you?

BDawg
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Thank you for your gracious response. Frankly, if it were me, I’d rather be called “non-Christian” than “heretical Christian”, but I certainly wouldn’t object to that title as long as it wasn’t considered inflammatory.

Let me be perfectly candid with you. It is my belief that many key LDS doctrines are so far removed from the Gospel of Jesus that they undermine the basic requirements for salvation, therefore, following those doctrines puts one’s soul in mortal danger. I am no expert on LDS doctrines, but I know enough to have a clear conviction on this matter. I have a number of friends who are former Mormons and I have been approached by many Mormon missionaries over the years who are very aggressive at trying to convert mainline Christians to Mormonism. Based on my core beliefs, this is essentially leading people away from Christ and away from salvation. Frankly, I find that Mormons use the label “Christian” to disarm those they are evangelizing by trying to make them think that the LDS are no different than any other Christian denomination and if you understand anything about mainline Christianity, you know that this is simply not true.

On the other hand, the Catholic Church is possibly the only Christian denomination that officially teaches the doctrine of “invincible ignorance” which states that anyone who is genuinely ignorant of the truth, is not held accountable for that ignorance, thus, anyone of any religious background can be saved through God’s grace and the sacrafice of Christ on calvary. Therefore, we certainly don’t believe that all Mormons are “going to hell.” Having said that, however, not being ignorant of the truth myself, I am obligated and compelled to share the truth with everyone I come into contact with and not leave them in ignorance of the truth. That is why I have and will continue to discourage anyone from joining the LDSs or any other heretical religious organization.

I truly don’t want to be offensive, but in the interest of clarity I am compelled to speak the truth directly, and I do so in a sincere spirit of love. I pray that you will find truth and will follow God’s perfect will for your life, whatever that may be.

Blessings
 
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gryskull:
Are mormons considered christians or a cult? Why?
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I would say the best description yet I’ve seen on Mormonism–is that they are a “Cult of Christianity”.

Here’s why:

A cult of Christianity is a group of people, which claiming to be Christian, embraces a particular doctrinal system taught by an individual leader, group of leaders, or organization, which (system) denies (either explicitly or implicitly) one or more of the central doctrines of the Christian faith as taught in the seventy-three books of the Bible.

Individuals who, while claiming to be Christians, reject one of more central key doctrines of the Christian faith are considered heretics. Groups which reject such doctrines while claiming to represent Christianity, are considered Cults of Christianity.

The Vatican in 2001 in decided to not accept Mormon baptisms for our converts due to their vastly different (un-Christian) views on Christ and God. Please see link http://www.apologeticsindex.org/news1/an010723-05.html

Furthermore, I think most of you will recognize that Mormons fit like a nice round peg in this “test” of cults and counterfeit churches: (Note: Apparently this original list was first made by an ex-mormon turned Christian, I added the references. So apparently there may be an obvious bias–but any question should be allieved when you read up on other cults and their practices) See these websites: http://www.cults.co.nz/ae.html
csj.org/infoserv_cult101/checklis.htm It is based on extensive examination of many cults, not just Mormonism.
  1. They have a persecution complex. (I think this one is quite evident on this board alone:yup: ) Although Latter-day Saints claim no greater suffering than many others who have also been persecuted for their religious beliefs through the ages, many Latter-day Saints have been persecuted, beginning with Joseph Smith (see JS—H 1:33). As the Church grew, persecutions increased; the Latter-day Saints faced threats, murder, rape, mayhem, property damage, and revilement in Kirtland, Ohio (1831-1838), in Missouri (1831-1839), and in the area of Nauvoo, Illinois (1839-1846), culminating in the assassinations of Joseph and Hyrum Smith at Carthage, Illinois, in 1844 (Hull, pp. 643-52). (See Church History home page)
  2. They claim to be the “only true church.” Your group is the only true group. All outside the group are judged as evil, worldly, and are under the Devil. The Mormons are “the only true and living church upon the face of the whole earth” (D&C 1:30), the only organization authorized by the Almighty to preach his gospel and administer the ordinances of salvation, the only Church which has power to save" (Mormon Doctrine; 1977 ed, p. 136).
  3. They claim to have the “only true prophets on earth.” If a group can convince us that they have some special authority from God, that God has appointed them, we readily accept their control. These claims take many forms: modern-day prophets or apostles; only true church; God’s only channel or organization, etc.
  4. **They challenge the infallibility of the bible. Christ’s sacrificial death on the cross was never enough, each individual has to add their works. The eighth article of the Articles of Faith of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints states “**We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God.”
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  1. **They deify man. (Man is a god or will become one.) **After you become a good Mormon, you have the potential of becoming a god, (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pages 345-347, 354.) "As man is, God once was; as God is, man may become". Talmage, 430. See also Oscar W. McConkie, Jr., God and Man (Salt Lake City, UT: The Corporation of the Presiding Bishop, 1963)
  2. They humanize God. (They limit God to a body.) “God himself, the Father of us all, is a glorified, exalted, immortal, resurrected Man!” (Mormon Doctrine, p. 643).
  3. They have a procedure by which they attack the deity of Jesus Christ. By either lowering him to the level of man, or raising man to the level of Jesus.
9.** They claim to have divine books.** (Esoteric doctrines to be understood by them only in addition to or in place of the Bible).
  1. They have unswerving loyalty to its leaders, one never questions leadership. “When our leaders speak, the thinking has been done. When they propose a plan–it is God’s Plan. When they point the way, there is no other which is safe. When they give directions, it should mark the end of controversy, God works in no other way. To think otherwise, without immediate repentance, may cost one his faith, may destroy his testimony, and leave him a stranger to the kingdom of God.” Ward Teachers Message, Deseret News, Church Section p. 5, May 26, 1945
    Also included in the Improvement Era, June 1945 (which was the official church magazine before the Ensign) “When the Prophet speaks the debate is over”. N. Eldon Tanner, August Ensign 1979, pages 2-3
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11.** They have an elite society, they create a racist system, they may always have earthly temples where only a select few may go**. Obviously demonstrated in the card-carrying Temple Recommend Mormons. Mormons also have a racist past. "Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the African Race? If the White man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain, the penalty, under the law of God, is death on the spot. This will always be so. (Brigham Young Journal of Discourses Vol 7, pg 290-291) Also, until 1981, 2 Nephi 30:6 in the Book of Mormon taught that dark-skinned Lamanites (Indians) would eventually experience a change in the color of their skin should they embrace the Book of Mormon. “…their scales of darkness shall begin to fall from their eyes; and many generations shall not pass away among them, save they shall be a white and a delightsome people.” In 1981, the LDS Church decided to change “the most correct book on earth” and switched the word “white” with the word “pure.” Some Mormons insist that this was a clarification since the word was never meant to refer to a person with dark skin pigmentation who would magically turn white based upon a conversion to the Mormon gospel; rather, it is claimed that the change referred to a cleaner state of heart. This assumption is definitely not supported in the Book of Mormon since 2 Nephi 5:21 says, “And he had caused the cursing to come upon them, yea, even a sore cursing, because of their iniquity. For behold, they had hardened their hearts against him, and they had become like unto a flint; wherefore, as they were white, and exceedingly fair and delightsome, that they might not be enticing unto my people the Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them.”
  1. Abnormal sexual practices Mormons consider Polygamy a righteous principle which will be practiced in heaven. Although there is nothing in the Bible that will support this thinking, current Mormon Scripture has this to say: “…if any man espouse a virgin, and desire to espouse another, and the first give her consent, and if he espouse the second, and they are virgins, and have vowed to no adultery. . . . And if he have TEN VIRGINS given unto him by this law, he cannot commit adultery. . . .” (Doctrine and Covenants 132:61,62) Mormons today believe God the Father is married and past leaders have taught both God the Father and Jesus Christ are polygamists. Apostle Orson Pratt makes these unbelievable statements: “…the great Messiah who was the founder of the Christian religion, was a Polygamist. . . .the Messiah chose to take upon himself his seed; and by marrying many honorable wives himself, show to all future generations that he approbated the plurality of Wives under the Christian dispensation. . . .God the Father had a plurality of wives…the Son followed the example of his Father…both God the Father and our Lord Jesus Christ inherit their wives in eternity as well as in time;…” (The Seer, p. 172) Nowhere in the Bible does it indicate that God the Father and Jesus Christ are married or polygamists.
  2. They must perform good works as a means of salvation. There are two types of salvation; unconditional (general, ie granted to everyone due to the Atonement) and conditional (individual, ie Godhood and Exaltation). “Unconditional or general salvation, that which comes by grace alone without obedience to the gospel law, consists in the mere fact of being resurrected. This kind of salvation eventually will come to all mankind,excepting only the sons of perdition. . . . Those who gain only this general or unconditional salvation will still be judged according to their works and receive their places in a terrestrial or a telestial kingdom. They will, therefore, be damned; their eternal progression * will be cut short; they will not fill the full measure of their creation, but in eternity will be ministering servants * to more worthy persons" (Bruce R. McConkie Mormon Doctrine, 669; emphasis theirs). He also said, "One of the untrue doctrines found in modern Christendom is the concept that man can gain salvation (meaning in the kingdom of God)by grace alone without obedience”*** (Mormon Doctrine, 671).
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  1. They claim that salvation and exaltation comes only through their organization. In a conference speech delivered on April 8, 1973, LDS Apostle Mark E. Petersen proclaimed that salvation “comes only through the Church itself as the Lord established it… Therefore it was made clearly manifest that salvation is in the Church, and of the Church, and is obtained only through the Church.”
Joseph Smith holds the keys of this last dispensation, and is now engaged behind the vail in the great work of the last days. I can tell our beloved brother Christians who have slain the Prophets and butchered and otherwise caused the death of thousands of Latter-day Saints, the priests who have thanked God in their prayers and thanksgiving from the pulpit that we have been plundered, driven, and slain, and the deacons under the pulpit, and their brethren and sisters in their closets, who have thanked God, thinking that the Latter-day Saints were wasted away, something that no doubt will mortify them—something that, to say the least, is a matter of deep regret to them—namely, that no man or woman in this dispensation will ever enter into the celestial kingdom of God without the consent of Joseph Smith. From the day that the Priesthood was taken from the earth to the winding-up scene of all things, every man and woman must have the certificate of Joseph Smith, junior, as a passport to their entrance into the mansion where God and Christ are—I with you and you with me. I cannot go there without his consent. He holds the keys of that kingdom for the last dispensation—the keys to rule in the spirit-world; and he rules there triumphantly, for he gained full power and a glorious victory over the power of Satan while he was yet in the flesh, and was a martyr to his religion and to the name of Christ, which gives him a most perfect victory in the spirit-world. He reigns there as supreme a being in his sphere, capacity, and calling, as God does in heaven. Many will exclaim—“Oh, that is very disagreeable! It is preposterous! We cannot bear the thought!” But it is true. (Journal of Discourses Vol 7, 289)
  1. They excommunicate, shun, or ban dissidents in order to keep and maintain control of doctrine, throught patterns and requirements of the other followers. See LA Times Cover Story December 1, 2001 Also, Brigham Young claimed that these who leave the Mormon Church would turn “wrinkled” and “black.” The following curse was pronounced by Brigham Young: “. . .but let them apostatize, and they will become gray-haired, wrinkled, and black, just like the Devil.” (Journal of Discourses, vol. 5, p. 332) There have been tens of thousands of people leave the Mormon Church – Where are the “black and wrinkled” ones?
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  1. They use deception in recruiting. Mormon Apostle Boyd K. Packer gave a talk to Mormon historians and teachers, titled “The Mantle is Far, Far Greater Than The Intellect,” at the Fifth Annual Church Educational System Religious Educators’ Symposium, 22 August, 1981, Brigham Young University, Provo, Utah, published later in Brigham Young University Studies, Summer 1981 [emphasis added]:
    "There is no such thing as an accurate, objective history of the Churchwithout consideration of the spiritual powers that attend this work… Church history can he so interesting and so inspiring as to be a very powerful tool indeed for building faith.
"If not properly written or properly taught, it may be a faith destroyer. "

"If we who research, write, and teach the history of the Church ignore the spiritual on the pretext that the world may not understand it, our work will not be objective. And if, for the same reason, we keep it quite secular, we will produce a history that is not accurate and not scholarly

Packer cautioned his listeners about how they should present the history of the church:

"There is a temptation for the writer or the teacher of Church history to want to tell everything, whether it is worthy or faith promoting or not.
"Some things that are true are not very useful."
"Teaching some things that are true, prematurely or at the wrong time, can invite sorrow and heartbreak instead of the joy intended to accompany learning.

“What is true with these two subjects is, if anything, doubly true in the field of religion. The scriptures teach emphatically that we must give milk before meat.”

“The Lord made it very clear that some things are to be taught selectively and some things are to be given only to those who are worthy.”
  1. They us secretiveness and vagueness regarding activites and beliefs. As quoted from Time Magazine interview with the CURRENT LDS President Gordon B. Hinckely August 4th, 1997.
    Q: Just another related question that comes up is the statements in the King Follett discourse by the Prophet.
Hinckley: Yeah

Q: … about that, God the Father was once a man as we were. This is something that Christian writers are always addressing. Is this the teaching of the church today, that God the Father was once a man like we are?

Hinckley: I don’t know that we teach it. I don’t know that we emphasize it. I haven’t heard it discussed for a long time in public discourse. I don’t know. I don’t know all the circumstances under which that statement was made. I understand the philosophical background behind it. But I don’t know a lot about it and I don’t know that others know a lot about it. [emphasis added]

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  1. They separate recruits from family, friends and society. A change in personality or values is seen and substitution of the cult as the new family takes place. They call each other brother and sister. Limited association: No association is allowed outside the group. None in the group can have fellowship with “worldly” people, other than to recruit them into the group. Anyone who rejects the group is your enemy - even mother, father, husband, wife, sister or brother. Your loyalty, which you think is to God, is really to the group. The counterfeit church has, in essence, replaced Jesus Christ as mediator between you and God. The fortress is now complete, the wall is built.
Also, it should be noted that the Church does not release financial statements to the general public or even to the general membership, and has not since roughly 1963. That seems a bit unfair to the average members of the Church who contribute all the money. After all, lack of disclosure and oversight is almost always associated with mismanagement and corruption, and I have little doubt that rule applies to the billions of dollars under the control of senior LDS leaders. The internal audits performed by LDS employees keep Bishops from stealing from the tithing pot, but can do little to prevent mismanagement or improper spending by Church executives. It has become painfully clear in recent years how ineffective auditing is at preventing large-scale financial misdeeds even in corporations subject to comprehensive public disclosure laws. It is reasonable to think the risk is even greater in the Church, where so little financial information is disclosed to the public. Mormons rather naively assume much of the money goes to aid the poor, which is wildly inaccurate–only a miniscule proportion goes to “charitable causes.” Most of it goes to support the corporate operations of the Church–buildings (chapels, temples, visitor’s centers), payroll(CES employees, LDS bureaucrats, and GA salaries paid out as “living expenses”), and investments (primarily securities and real estate). Who “owns” the assets of the Church, generally estimated to be in the tens of billions of dollars? Theoretically, “the Church” owns the assets, with senior leaders exercising control as “trustees” of the Church and its members. Practically, the senior leaders own the assets–they make the decisions, they are accountable to no one, and none of the “little people” (average Church members, supposedly the ones in whose interest the money and assets are managed) have a say in what is done with the money or are even able to obtain meaningful financial information concerning revenues, expenditures, assets, or budgets.
 
Cult? Not necessarily.

Christians? Absolutely not.

False religion? No doubt about it. Let us pray for our Mormon brothers and sisters that they may come into Christ’s Church and reject the false teachings of their church.

-Michael
 
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gryskull:
Are mormons considered christians or a cult? Why?
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Mormons are not Christian. They are nice people, but not Christian.

The most fundamental reason is the Mormon Jesus is not capable of paying for the sins of the world. He was the first born of Elohim’s billions of spirit children and no different than you or I except that he was “chosen” to be the Savior. Lucifer, another of Elohim’s spirit children wanted to be the Savior and argued with God about it. That, Mormonism teaches, is the reason Satan fell. So the Mormon Jesus is not God eternal, but a mere man with a special mission who was supposed to endured eternal (infinite) punishment for billions of people.

It is, of course, impossible for a created and finite being to endure infinite and eternal spiritual punishment. Therefore, if Mormons are correct about Jesus, His finished work would not be efficacious and would result in salvation for no one.

I’ve spent a lot of time talking with Mormons over the years. On one occasion, me and another person were talking with a Mormon man and his wife. This man had the resonsibility in the church of overseeing the local missionaries. After an hour or so of discussion, the man said, “You know what, you and we actually believe in different Jesus’.” We said, “Yes! That is what we have been trying to say. We are not discussing differing details about the same person. We are talking about a different person altogether.”

The denial of Christ’s diety is Mormanism’s central departure from Christianty. Our salvation hinges upon the fact that He is God eternal.
 
The Mormon ‘religion’ is certainly an extremely wealthy orgnization … many indeed products on our supermarket shelves here in Adelaide are Mormon owned enterprises, though not originally so. I saw a documentary (media???) not all that long ago about the setting up of Las Vegas and the casinos…Mormon money. And according to this documentary, the Morman organization still gets profits from casinos. Since they are wealthy. undoubtedly they are politcally powerful (supposition!) .
Having read more or less…and I guess less more than more…the Book of Mormon … my personal reaction was “weird”, “offputting”…strange!
I once made the mistake upon opening my front door on an extremely hot and dry summer afternoon years ago and confronted with two young Morman men, and asking them to come inside and have a glass of water (since they refused tea and coffee…but I still smoked!). I told them I was Catholic, but I would offer them a drink in the heat before they went on their way.

About 2 hours later with me in a sweat having tried everything to get them to leave and they having given me gratis a Book of Morman (makes great cigarette papers if yer run out!). One of them took out a rather large artists imatation of a wishy wash Jesus all smiles and loving. The guy says to me “What would you do if you saw this man?”
I said “I’d run like heck”
“But why?” he said “Jesus loves you!”

mmmmm…says I…didn’t you know that Fear of The Lord is the beginning of wisdom?

I rather think they left shortly after that…and I had a supply of cigarette papers should I run out…

Regards, Barb
Bethany South Australia
Sun. 17.4.05…0353hrs:D
 
I would put more into peganism because there are billions of gods and goddeses because they all become gods eventually unless they are like Judas or bad peopl like that then they just disapear. And you have to be a baptized mormon too to get to heaven. You can be dead and be batized or unbaptized. For women to get to heaven, they have to be pulled through by a male. And after that they are pregnant for all eternity. You need to know seceret handshakes, and passwords. There book of mormon can be changed by what the prophit wants, teachings are changed by the prophit at will. If they want to, they can change Jesus’s teachings. Their god was just like them and sinned like them when he was on a differnt planet. It is a crazy cult, not many mormons even know what they believe, but many that do know convert because it is so crazy. The biggest reason they are not Christian is that they don’t beleive in the Trinity. They believe that they are three sperate gods. I live in an mormon area so I kinda have to study them so I when they are on my dorstep that I can challenge their teachings.
 
I really dislike the term “cult” It has been applied to every religion on earth, including Catholic, by those who wish to believe nothing at all and then, of course, that sect of humanity could also be tagged as “cult”. If we MUST use that term,(for lack of a better one) it seems that the simplest definition is: An organization (religion) that is very easy to get into and very hard to leave. An organization (religion) that gives no room for other beliefs. Members totally loyal to the founder.(leader)

Who said this? “I have more to boast of than ever any man had. I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam…Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such a work as I. The followers of Jesus ran away from Him, but the ___- ____ never ran away from me yet”. (Fill in the blanks) Need help? The first letters of each word, L, D, S. Quoted from History of the Church, vol.6,p.408-409

Who said:“God made Aaron to be the mouthpiece for the children of Israel, and He will make me be god to you in His stead…and if you don’t like it, you must lump it”.
Once again, fill in the balnks:________ _______. (need help? first letter of each word, J, S.
Quoted from: “Teachings of the Prophet Jsoeph Smith” p. 363 .

Who said: “If you tell them that God made the world out of something, they will call you a fool. But I am learned, and know more than all the world put together”. (Same answer as above.)
Quoted from the “Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith”. p. 350-352.

LDS a “cult”??? LDS “christian”??? You decide!!

Love and Peace
 
BJ Colbert:
…but I know that we are Christian if you define Christian as someone who believes in Jesus Christ as their Savior.
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IF that’s all there is to the definition, sure, lots of people can be Christians. However, as a Catholic, I believe there is quite a bit more to the definition. Accepting Jesus as one’s Savior is of complete necessity, no argument there, but what about…

Rejecting sin?
Receiving the Body and Blood of Christ?
Being baptized?
Obeying the law?

…and let’s not forget…

Following the leaders and tradition of the Church that Christ Himself established here on earth?

I don’t believe that Mormons are Christians. I believe that Mormons believe they are Christians. But that’s about as far as it gets.
 
This is a subject that I have shied away from, as I have a sister who recently converted to Mormonism (from protestantism) as I converted to the Church. She is a strong proseletyzer, and we have already had some heated debates.

She tells me that she thoroughly investigated the Mormon faith and believes it. She belittles me because I will not read their works. Funny, she told me before she converted that she was “strong” in her faith and accused me of being small minded because I would not meet with the “missionaries” and read their literature. I got caught up in a couple of heretical movements in my youth without even realizing it, and do not wish to make myself vulnerable to that type of influence. I know the risks.

However, I may now have to take the risk. I printed out a copy of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith’s “Response to a ‘Dubium’” regarding the validity of Mormon baptism with an article of explanation by Fr. Luis Ladaria, S.J., which delves into the issue based on the Church’s investigation of Mormon doctrine. The response, approved by Pope John Paul II in 2001, changed the historic recognition of the Mormon Church’s baptism based on the general principle that the Church has traditionally accepted heretical baptism if it fulfilled the proper form and intent. I debated for a month whether to share this with my sister. Finally, after prayer and begging God for humility and that I would not appear to be judgmental or condemning, I asked my sister to read it, and she angrily refused, citing the fact that I would not read the teachings of her “church.” Now the question is: do I subject myself to the distressing spiritual combat I know would come (I experience this in a very real way), or do I just drop back and pray for her?

One of the main reasons that I became Catholic was that I realized that those of us who stand on our own authority and our own understanding of the Faith stand on a foundation of sand. God never meant it to be that way. That is why there is a proliferation of protestant and heretical sects, because they have rejected the authority of God’s Church and every man interprets the scripture and the teaching of the faith to his own liking.

This is why I cannot accept the Mormon faith as Christian and why I believe that those who practice the Mormon faith, no matter how sincere (and those I have met are very, very nice people) and no matter how good it makes them feel are outside of Christ: because the Holy Catholic Church, the Church of the Apostles, founded on Christ, Peter the Vicar of Christ and the Apostles, given the gift of the Holy Spirit to protect it from error, has spoken.

My sister told me that she does not care what the Catholic Church says, and in that statement is the kernel of truth that defines the whole matter. For in reality, those who reject the Church reject the Faith. But it’s a horrible shame that that they don’t even realize it.
 
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