All that aside, if God created us wouldn’t that make us his children? and he our father? Isn’t it a very old church tradition (maybe not catholic church) but to refer to God as our Father, us his children and each other as Brother ??? or Sister ???.
Then what would our relationship to Jesus Christ be?
God the “Father” and God the “Son” are not literal terms but figurative so that us humans can get an idea of the Trinity. To humans a “father” is the literal parent that produces offspring through relations. For God the title of “Father” and “Son” is much more profound, beyond our comprehension. We are creation, God is creator.
We are creatures, created out of love by The Father through The Son. Jesus’ sacrifice made it possible for us to become members of God’s family through adoption. We call one another “brother” and “sister” in anticipation of that adoption.
If we started out as “strangers and aliens”, and we need to be “adopted” to become a part of the family of God, then we could not have started out as the Father’s literal children. We are currently creatures, plain and simple.
I believe logic says we are much more than “creatures”. God loves us like a Father even when we are not doing his will. When Adam and Eve were expelled from the garden God instructed them on how to survive in the world, he created clothing for them. We are the only creation made is his express likeness and image. He sent Christ to suffer and die for us even when we were in rebellion against him. I think we are his children whether we repent or not. I think it breaks his heart when we live in sin and makes him proud when we return to him. When we convert we are adopted into the house of Israel, God’s chosen people. But even before that we are his children. We are the “offspring” of diety.
From www.lightplanet.com
Kolob means "the first creation." It is the name of the planet "nearest to the celestial, or the residence of God." It is "first in government, the last pertaining to the measurement of time. . . . One day in Kolob is equal to a thousand years according to the measurement of this earth." (Book of Abraham, pp. 34-35; Abra. 3:3-9.) ( Mormon Doctrine, p.428)I made no reference to HOW our spirits were created, only that they were created by God. I’m guessing you agree with that. If the facts are that God created our spirits, then we are his children and he is our Father. Hopefully I don’t have to go into any details about why this is so as I’m sure you understand the relationship between a Father and his children.
What you think or feel is not relevant. Your disagreement is not with us but with the bible. The passages I quoted make it clear that we are invited to become children of God. But we start out as creatures.
False (as usual):
I am not too sure about that:
Perhaps I should have said that addressing God in the informal personal of Father was not common. Abba means daddy, afterall.
Show me both of those points in the bible. Where are we called “creatures”? What I see evidenced is a God that loves us as his children in both our sinful state and after repentance.
Yes, I suppose you could be right about that. However, when Jesus applied the title Father to God among the Jews, He seemed to do so in a context implying that it should have been an obvious concept to them; and nobody seemed to be questioning Him on that. On the contrary, their responses seemed to affirm that assumption. For example, on one occasion when He was having a bit of an altercation with them, they affirmed to Him that God was their Father:
Paul was not advocating “offspring” in the matter of sexual reproduction but rather “in him we live and move and have our being”, and, God “gives all men life and breath” which is not the same as “of one blood [Adam and Eve] made all nations of men”. Paul was standing among polytheists, the last thing he would have been trying to teach was many gods or goddess wives.
Yes, God sent His Son to die for something infinitely less than Himself.
But look what Jesus says:
My post was not in response to your OP, and had no relevance to it.Paul was not advocating “offspring” in the matter of sexual reproduction but rather “in him we live and move and have our being”, and, God “gives all men life and breath” which is not the same as “of one blood [Adam and Eve] made all nations of men”. Paul was standing among polytheists, the last thing he would have been trying to teach was many gods or goddess wives.
23For as I walked around and looked carefully at your objects of worship, I even found an altar with this inscription: TO AN UNKNOWN GOD. Now what you worship as something unknown I am going to proclaim to you. 24"The God who made the world and everything in it is the Lord of heaven and earth and does not live in temples built by hands. 25And he is not served by human hands, as if he needed anything, because he himself gives all men life and breath and everything else. 26From one man he made every nation of men, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he determined the times set for them and the exact places where they should live. 27God did this so that men would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from each one of us. 28’For in him we live and move and have our being.’ As some of your own poets have said, ‘We are his offspring.’
29"Therefore since we are God’s offspring, we should not think that the divine being is like gold or silver or stone—an image made by man’s design and skill. 30In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent.
Yes, God sent His Son to die for something infinitely less than Himself.
But look what Jesus says:
42Jesus said to them, "If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and now am here. I have not come on my own; but he sent me. 43Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say. 44You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.Obviously this wasnt literally “fatherhood” as in regards to sexual reproduction…otherwise Jesus is saying these Pharisees are** the literal children** of the Devil!