Mormonism is NOT a Cult

[Gloria1]

I’m not fit to judge but i’m a Christian and i know my religion…

 

[holy_wood]

Now many don’t know but I was LDS 2X. I came back to the church. Anyway. I was so bitter before hand but a lot of research has brought me to the fact that after 13+ million members the LDS church is not a cult

They just believe A LOT different than what Catholics do. Nad now I am a Catholic through and through so don’t bash me for thinking this way

I post this because I think this would be a good discussion.

I do believe Jehovah’s witnesses are a cult but thats after series research into it:thumbsup:

How many people did Joseph Smith have to get to follow him before his cult became a religion.

On the other hand this could be used against Christ as well.

 

[ralphinal]

I have trouble calling Mormonisma cult. I do not know why, but I do. I know the definitions and how it fits, but personally, I have trouble doing it.

 

[kwitz]

it is impossible to “see what it is all about” at an open house. you will not see the clothing, ordinances, films, etc. there nor will anyone be willing to discuss it.

I can agree with this just from one personal example. Several years ago, the new St. Louis temple opened and we went to the open house with a group of friends. What struck us all, was how few questions that we asked were actually answered. I’ll be honest, at some point it became a joke to see who could get the best “non-answer” from one of the guides but that wasn’t till we realized how little we were told.

Kris

 

[ericmatthews]

Actually, this is not true. One needs to believe in the trinity to be a christian. Mormons do not. They believe in a Jesus that is not the same in being as God the father and the Holy Spirit. Furthermore, they believe Jesus and Satan are brothers, sons of God the Father. And that God the father is just a created being that has reached a higher spritual plane than everyone else, that there are higher gods than him. And that we too, as created beings, can rise to that same level. Believing that Jesus died on the cross for our sins is key, but what good is that if you don’t believe Jesus is one in being with God? What if I believed Jesus died for our sins but was really an alien sunflower from another galaxy? Would that make me a christian? Hardly.

What makes mormonism a cult is the lack of openness about their faith. Ask any protestant about what it means to be part of their religion, what is required of them, they will tell you. Ask a catholic what they believe and what it is required of them in their religion, they will tell you. Ask a mormon, and you’ll get one answer. Ask them again, you’ll get another. Ask them what goes on in their temple, the secret handshakes and temple garments, and they’ll tell you it’s a secret. Ask them about the special underwear they wear under all their clothes. Many will deny it. Ask them about the secret ‘signs’ to get through the ‘veil’ after death. Won’t tell ya. Ask them about becoming their own gods, they’ll deny it. Ask them about polygamy, racism, etc etc and they’ll clam up. It’s not an open faith, it’s like an onion. You have to keep peeling back the layers to get to the truth, and the more you peel the deeper you get. And no one seems to ever have the answers, or is willing to give the answers to you until it’s too late.

First off sry if this is hard to read i dont use forums very much… the concept that man becomes gods was personal view of Young it has been denied by LDS church along the the Adam-God theory as heresey… and what secerts of the mormon temples i have been too one with my friend and there was nothing they hid they were all polite and seemed happy to have me their

 

[RebeccaJ]

First off sry if this is hard to read i dont use forums very much… the concept that man becomes gods was personal view of Young it has been denied by LDS church along the the Adam-God theory as heresey… and what secerts of the mormon temples i have been too one with my friend and there was nothing they hid they were all polite and seemed happy to have me their

Men become gods is a very basic doctrine of mormonism. They call it “eternal progression”. It is in their scriptures. You can google that term and you’ll find plenty of references.

The Adam-God theory, where the mormon prophet Brigham Young taught that Adam and God the Father are the same person…is denied as doctrine by all mormons.

If you were in a temple, and are not a mormon, then it was only an open house. With an open house you get a tour of the place, and are welcomed. Once a temple is dedicated, you aren’t going in unless you are a worthy mormon. Worthy meaning you adhere to all the mormon dietary rules, pay 10% of your income as tithing, support the mormon church leaders, and are all lined up with a list of moral guidelines. Only if you meet all of those requirements would you be inside a temple when the actual ceremonies are going on.

 

[majick275]

First off sry if this is hard to read i dont use forums very much… the concept that man becomes gods was personal view of Young it has been denied by LDS church along the the Adam-God theory as heresey… and what secerts of the mormon temples i have been too one with my friend and there was nothing they hid they were all polite and seemed happy to have me their

this is not accurate. man becoming Gods was never denied nor was it ever considered personal opinion of BY as it was first taught by Joseph Smith. it is still taught currently. just go to www.lds.org and search for eternal progression.

Adam God theory was at one time denounced as heresy but then later it was clarified as being a misunderstanding of what BY actually was saying since it was said to the church as a whole by an alleged prophet. most recently Gordon B. Hinkley repeated it in an interview but merely stated that he didn’t know what BY meant by that.

“Brigham Young said if you went to Heaven and saw God it would be Adam and Eve. I don’t know what he meant by that.” Pointing to a grim-faced portrait of the Lion of the Lord, as Young was called, Hinckley said, “There he is, right there. I’m not going to worry about what he said about those things.” I asked whether Mormon theology was a form of polytheism. “I don’t have the remotest idea what you mean,” Hinckley said impatiently." - Hinckley Interview in “Lives of the Saint”, New Yorker, January 2002

 

[ericmatthews]

Men become gods is a very basic doctrine of mormonism. They call it “eternal progression”. It is in their scriptures. You can google that term and you’ll find plenty of references.

The Adam-God theory, where the mormon prophet Brigham Young taught that Adam and God the Father are the same person…is denied as doctrine by all mormons.

If you were in a temple, and are not a mormon, then it was only an open house. With an open house you get a tour of the place, and are welcomed. Once a temple is dedicated, you aren’t going in unless you are a worthy mormon. Worthy meaning you adhere to all the mormon dietary rules, pay 10% of your income as tithing, support the mormon church leaders, and are all lined up with a list of moral guidelines. Only if you meet all of those requirements would you be inside a temple when the actual ceremonies are going on.

It was a dedicated temple my bros family went there for years and it wasnt an open house so idk what happened… and i wont deny or confirm the adam-god theory and eternal progression cause im kinda of rusty on those issues but i would like to ask by our belifes are mormons going to hell because i must say i cant imagine that people who have been so good to me and seem to love god would be going to hell

 

[majick275]

here is a good explanation from current LDS sources on how they view the trinity :

lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?vgnextoid=88021b08f338c010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD&locale=0&sourceId=5259cb7a29c20110VgnVCM100000176f620a____&hideNav=1

lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?vgnextoid=88021b08f338c010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD&locale=0&sourceId=bea7767978c20110VgnVCM100000176f620a____&hideNav=1

this should help to explain not only man becoming God but their belief that God was a man.

The GBH quote I posted earlier is probably the most current reference to Adam/God from the LDS.

here is the original attributed to BrighamYoung:

journalofdiscourses.org/Vol_01/refJDvol1-10.html

it should be noted that he gave this talk in general conference. if you ask LDS today if the significance of the talks given in GC by their prophet they will tell you it is the same as scripture. they teach that the Ensign (church magazine) contains scripture when it prints those.

now in spite of such blasphemous doctrine, Eric, the truth is we don’t know what will happen to any mormons after death. God will decide and we can only pray for mercy on their behalf.

 

[ericmatthews]

i’m sorry if i seem stubborn or rude foolish i guess im just confused on this subject so i apogize if i have been a little hard headed and i hope i havent made a bad first impression lol…I have heard a lot of different things on mormons so im not sure but here is a quote from joseph smith i have used to define mormon teaching “The fundamental principles of our religion are the testimony of the Apostles and Prophets, concerning Jesus Christ, that He died, was buried, and rose again the third day, and ascended into heaven; and all other things which pertain to our religion are only appendages to it”

 

[majick275]

well Eric, he sure did create a lot of appendages. I have tried to give you links to LDS documents so that you could read for yourself what the LDS teach (or used to teach) and judge for yourself.

 

[RebeccaJ]

but i would like to ask by our belifes are mormons going to hell because i must say i cant imagine that people who have been so good to me and seem to love god would be going to hell

Only God is the judge. I too have friends and family who are good people, and no, I don’t believe that they are going to hell for the mere fact of being mormon. Joseph Smith & Assoc…probably need lots of prayers.

 

[ericmatthews]

Only God is the judge. I too have friends and family who are good people, and no, I don’t believe that they are going to hell for the mere fact of being mormon. Joseph Smith & Assoc…probably need lots of prayers.

One i dont understand is its doesnt seem to me like joseph smith intended to decive people i dont think he got very much out his church except being killed and when i was converting i asked the guy in charge of RCIA about muslims and muhhamed and he said that since muhhamed was possible insane there was a good possiblitly God would have mecry if he did not intend to decive anyway could that be said of Jospeh smith

 

[RebeccaJ]

One i dont understand is its doesnt seem to me like joseph smith intended to decive people i dont think he got very much out his church except being killed and when i was converting i asked the guy in charge of RCIA about muslims and muhhamed and he said that since muhhamed was possible insane there was a good possiblitly God would have mecry if he did not intend to decive anyway could that be said of Jospeh smith

I do believe that Smith was deceitful. He was born a poor farm boy and used his made up religion to reach a position of power among his followers. He not only claimed to be a prophet but also a general of his own militia, and “mayor” of a theocratic town that was populated by people who saw him as nearly godlike. He went overboard with it all and wound up on the wrong end of an angry mob.

So was he ill in some way? Only God knows.

 

[ericmatthews]

I do believe that Smith was deceitful. He was born a poor farm boy and used his made up religion to reach a position of power among his followers. He not only claimed to be a prophet but also a general of his own militia, and “mayor” of a theocratic town that was populated by people who saw him as nearly godlike. He went overboard with it all and wound up on the wrong end of an angry mob.

So was he ill in some way? Only God knows.

Well mabey i should read up on Mormon history cause did not know all that I will have to look it up later and see not because i dont belilive or think ur lying i just like proving things for myself no offense

 

[RebeccaJ]

Well mabey i should read up on Mormon history cause did not know all that I will have to look it up later and see not because i dont belilive or think ur lying i just like proving things for myself no offense

Definitely, research things for yourself and form your own opinion.

 

[ericmatthews]

While i was doing some research on moromn belifes specicaly Exhatation(sp?) i came across this verse that they had in support of it and i was just wondering how should we interptert it because i dont belive the mormon church but i thought this verse was interesting and sorry if this is the wrong post and for all the questions i just like to know stuff lol anyway hear it is

God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods…I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High." Psalms (82:1,6)

 

[RebeccaJ]

While i was doing some research on moromn belifes specicaly Exhatation(sp?) i came across this verse that they had in support of it and i was just wondering how should we interptert it because i dont belive the mormon church but i thought this verse was interesting and sorry if this is the wrong post and for all the questions i just like to know stuff lol anyway hear it is

God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods…I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High." Psalms (82:1,6)

This is a scripture that comes up often when talking with mormons. Especially since Jesus quotes it when talking to the Pharisees.

I guess I would ask, do we believe that Jesus was inferring that the Pharisees were gods? I have read that from a position of Jewish tradition, Jewish judges were sometimes called “gods”, because of their position of power and judgment over the people. So in short, what I came away with when researching this myself is that “gods” does not mean a divine being, it is more a reference to a position of authority and judgment, amongst humans. Among these “gods”, God is the judge among them and they, like us, are God’s children.

 

[majick275]

While i was doing some research on moromn belifes specicaly Exhatation(sp?) i came across this verse that they had in support of it and i was just wondering how should we interptert it because i dont belive the mormon church but i thought this verse was interesting and sorry if this is the wrong post and for all the questions i just like to know stuff lol anyway hear it is

God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods…I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High." Psalms (82:1,6)

you need to read the next verse:

But you will die like mere men;
you will fall like every other ruler

it is not a simple issue because Jesus refers to it in John 10 when he is charged blasphemy. For a good scholarly look read this:

nd.edu/~jneyrey1/Gods.html

that will give you a good feel for the proper context. (you have to try and understand the viewpoint of the Jews it was written to back when it was written) they are told they would be made “deathless” (immortal beings i.e. gods) by God but because of sin they will die men (mortal beings) it also is a play on words because they are rulers (in this case judges) who back then were sometimes called gods (pharoah, roman emperors, etc.) but he emphasizes that in they will die like men. (no different than the lowest servant) BUT… God can elevate us, make us his children through adoption and give us eternal life. (the beatific vision)

 

[tundramom]

There are cults, and there is cult-like behavior.

As a fifth generation Mormon, I agreed with the doctrines of the COJCOLDS. I didn’t know any better. I would have been offended if anyone had told me that the church was a cult. I had a persecution complex big time.

Now that I am a Christian, I can tell you that the LDS church IS MOST DEFINATELY a cult. However, I do believe that some individuals may be Christian, and it is up to God to decide who is and who isn’t. That’s not my job.

Heretic doctrines of Mormonism are certainly defined and lived out as a cult would be. It’s the most dangerous sort of cult because they are now trying to fit into mainstream Protestantism and redefine themselves as Christian. Early Mormon teachers didn’t agree with that. They were proud to stand apart and made no apologies for it. I sure wish todays Mormons would be as honest.

in Christ
Steph